List Mgmt. 2025 List Management II 📃

[Aphrodite]

 

[Opium]

One of the more well deserved extensions we've done of late.

To bounce back from that humiliation of a debut against the Tiggies to arguably a top 3 finish in the bnf speaks volumes of the man.

Agree. I'll put my hand up I had written him off and was his harshest critic. Happy to be proven wrong. Kudos to him.

 

[btdg]

Ed Richards is absolutely the type of player we don't have. He is the Epitome of what we need.

The reason we don't have an Ed Richards on our list is entirely the problem at Carlton, and it has nothing to do with drafting. It is entirely about a lack of patience and having absolutely no appetite to provide players with the space and support to develop.

Ed Richards is 26 and has just had a breakout year. His year by year stats since he was drafted:

• 2018 (age 19) = 13.6 disposals, 0.62 scoring shots, 2.43 tackles (20 games)
• 2019 (age 20) = 11.65, 1.1 scoring shots, 2.35 tackles (21 games)
• 2020 (age 21) = 10.76 , 0.64 scoring shots, 1.8 tackles (17 games)
• 2021 (age 22) = 13.6 disposals, 0.2 scoring shots, 1.8 tackles (5 games)

Note that after 3 seasons he had stagnated or even regressed from where he started. Played all over the place as a wing/back/mid, his scoring and tackles had even declined and by year 4 wasn't getting a run in the team.
- 2022 (age 23) = 18.45 disposals, 0 scoring shots, 1.64 tackles
Settled into a role as a defender and started to find a bit more of the ball. Still no score impact but at least getting the pill

• 2023 (age 24) = 21.21 disposals, 0.21 scoring shots, 1.89 tackles
• 2024 (age 25) = 21.38 disposals, 1.09 scoring shots, 3.67 tackles

Finally, in year 7 he goes onball, keeps getting the ball and has scoreboard and defensive pressure
- 2025 (age 26) = 25.8 disposals, 1.5 scoring shots, 3.75 tackles
In year 8 he breaks out as he his his prime

Let's compare Richards to our own Lochie O'Brien, drafted a couple of picks higher and a similar enough player:

• 2018 (age 19) = 13.9 disposals, 0.17 scoring shots, 1.44 tackles (18 games)
• 2019 (age 20) = 12.41 disposals, 0.65 scoring shots, 1.12 tackles (17 games)

Note at this stage, he's pretty much on par with Richards. Slightly different players but similar in impact

• 2020 (age 21) = 1 game only, as a sub (7 disposals). Spent the year in a covid bubble unable to train with the team
• 2021 (age 22) = 16 disposals, 0.8 scoring shots, 1.8 tackles (5 games)

Note that at age 22 O'Brien is objectively playing better footy than Richards, with both struggling to get into the team.
- 2022 (age 23) = 19 disposals, 0.73 scoring shots, 1.42 tackles (17 games)
Ummm... their trajectory is pretty much identical here, with O'Brien still arguably ahead. So where do we go with our developing mid?

• 2023 (age 24) = only plays 6 games, 4 of those as the sub. Dropped after his first full game (15 disposals, 3 tackles), brought back in for one more starting match, plays badly, dropped.
• End of 2023 = Delisted

Now you can swing this any way you like, but those two players were on an identical trajectory until 2022 and then... we just gave up. In the 2022 off-season we recruited Acres AND Hollands AND Binns who played the same position, and O'Brien seemed to be the scapegoat for our round 23 loss to Collingwood (a game in which he actually played pretty well, even in the last quarter) and just got thrown on the scrap heap.

I'm sure that can be countered with pot shots at O'Brien himself (I'm sure someone thinks he wasn't a hard enoug worker or he was too slow or something) or some other defence, but that's also the point. Young Carlton players never fully develop unless they are draft pick 1 and/or have some unique talent, and we don't develop them with a plan, and quit on them too early, and so we never get Ed Richards. Instead we're suiting up 23 year-old Flynn Young who we plucked out of the VFL mid-year

 

[BlueTongue]

The reason we don't have an Ed Richards on our list is entirely the problem at Carlton, and it has nothing to do with drafting. It is entirely about a lack of patience and having absolutely no appetite to provide players with the space and support to develop.

Ed Richards is 26 and has just had a breakout year. His year by year stats since he was drafted:

• 2018 (age 19) = 13.6 disposals, 0.62 scoring shots, 2.43 tackles (20 games)
• 2019 (age 20) = 11.65, 1.1 scoring shots, 2.35 tackles (21 games)
• 2020 (age 21) = 10.76 , 0.64 scoring shots, 1.8 tackles (17 games)
• 2021 (age 22) = 13.6 disposals, 0.2 scoring shots, 1.8 tackles (5 games)

Note that after 3 seasons he had stagnated or even regressed from where he started. Played all over the place as a wing/back/mid, his scoring and tackles had even declined and by year 4 wasn't getting a run in the team.
- 2022 (age 23) = 18.45 disposals, 0 scoring shots, 1.64 tackles
Settled into a role as a defender and started to find a bit more of the ball. Still no score impact but at least getting the pill

• 2023 (age 24) = 21.21 disposals, 0.21 scoring shots, 1.89 tackles
• 2024 (age 25) = 21.38 disposals, 1.09 scoring shots, 3.67 tackles

Finally, in year 7 he goes onball, keeps getting the ball and has scoreboard and defensive pressure
- 2025 (age 26) = 25.8 disposals, 1.5 scoring shots, 3.75 tackles
In year 8 he breaks out as he his his prime

Let's compare Richards to our own Lochie O'Brien, drafted a couple of picks higher and a similar enough player:

• 2018 (age 19) = 13.9 disposals, 0.17 scoring shots, 1.44 tackles (18 games)
• 2019 (age 20) = 12.41 disposals, 0.65 scoring shots, 1.12 tackles (17 games)

Note at this stage, he's pretty much on par with Richards. Slightly different players but similar in impact

• 2020 (age 21) = 1 game only, as a sub (7 disposals). Spent the year in a covid bubble unable to train with the team
• 2021 (age 22) = 16 disposals, 0.8 scoring shots, 1.8 tackles (5 games)

Note that at age 22 O'Brien is objectively playing better footy than Richards, with both struggling to get into the team.
- 2022 (age 23) = 19 disposals, 0.73 scoring shots, 1.42 tackles (17 games)
Ummm... their trajectory is pretty much identical here, with O'Brien still arguably ahead. So where do we go with our developing mid?

• 2023 (age 24) = only plays 6 games, 4 of those as the sub. Dropped after his first full game (15 disposals, 3 tackles), brought back in for one more starting match, plays badly, dropped.
• End of 2023 = Delisted

Now you can swing this any way you like, but those two players were on an identical trajectory until 2022 and then... we just gave up. In the 2022 off-season we recruited Acres AND Hollands AND Binns who played the same position, and O'Brien seemed to be the scapegoat for our round 23 loss to Collingwood (a game in which he actually played pretty well, even in the last quarter) and just got thrown on the scrap heap.

I'm sure that can be countered with pot shots at O'Brien himself (I'm sure someone thinks he wasn't a hard enoug worker or he was too slow or something) or some other defence, but that's also the point. Young Carlton players never fully develop unless they are draft pick 1 and/or have some unique talent, and we don't develop them with a plan, and quit on them too early, and so we never get Ed Richards. Instead we're suiting up 23 year-old Flynn Young who we plucked out of the VFL mid-year

That's a pretty good comparison. I'd be interested to know how the Disposal Efficiency stacks up.

 

[El Topo]

The reason we don't have an Ed Richards on our list is entirely the problem at Carlton, and it has nothing to do with drafting. It is entirely about a lack of patience and having absolutely no appetite to provide players with the space and support to develop.

Ed Richards is 26 and has just had a breakout year. His year by year stats since he was drafted:

• 2018 (age 19) = 13.6 disposals, 0.62 scoring shots, 2.43 tackles (20 games)
• 2019 (age 20) = 11.65, 1.1 scoring shots, 2.35 tackles (21 games)
• 2020 (age 21) = 10.76 , 0.64 scoring shots, 1.8 tackles (17 games)
• 2021 (age 22) = 13.6 disposals, 0.2 scoring shots, 1.8 tackles (5 games)

Note that after 3 seasons he had stagnated or even regressed from where he started. Played all over the place as a wing/back/mid, his scoring and tackles had even declined and by year 4 wasn't getting a run in the team.
- 2022 (age 23) = 18.45 disposals, 0 scoring shots, 1.64 tackles
Settled into a role as a defender and started to find a bit more of the ball. Still no score impact but at least getting the pill

• 2023 (age 24) = 21.21 disposals, 0.21 scoring shots, 1.89 tackles
• 2024 (age 25) = 21.38 disposals, 1.09 scoring shots, 3.67 tackles

Finally, in year 7 he goes onball, keeps getting the ball and has scoreboard and defensive pressure
- 2025 (age 26) = 25.8 disposals, 1.5 scoring shots, 3.75 tackles
In year 8 he breaks out as he his his prime

Let's compare Richards to our own Lochie O'Brien, drafted a couple of picks higher and a similar enough player:

• 2018 (age 19) = 13.9 disposals, 0.17 scoring shots, 1.44 tackles (18 games)
• 2019 (age 20) = 12.41 disposals, 0.65 scoring shots, 1.12 tackles (17 games)

Note at this stage, he's pretty much on par with Richards. Slightly different players but similar in impact

• 2020 (age 21) = 1 game only, as a sub (7 disposals). Spent the year in a covid bubble unable to train with the team
• 2021 (age 22) = 16 disposals, 0.8 scoring shots, 1.8 tackles (5 games)

Note that at age 22 O'Brien is objectively playing better footy than Richards, with both struggling to get into the team.
- 2022 (age 23) = 19 disposals, 0.73 scoring shots, 1.42 tackles (17 games)
Ummm... their trajectory is pretty much identical here, with O'Brien still arguably ahead. So where do we go with our developing mid?

• 2023 (age 24) = only plays 6 games, 4 of those as the sub. Dropped after his first full game (15 disposals, 3 tackles), brought back in for one more starting match, plays badly, dropped.
• End of 2023 = Delisted

Now you can swing this any way you like, but those two players were on an identical trajectory until 2022 and then... we just gave up. In the 2022 off-season we recruited Acres AND Hollands AND Binns who played the same position, and O'Brien seemed to be the scapegoat for our round 23 loss to Collingwood (a game in which he actually played pretty well, even in the last quarter) and just got thrown on the scrap heap.

I'm sure that can be countered with pot shots at O'Brien himself (I'm sure someone thinks he wasn't a hard enoug worker or he was too slow or something) or some other defence, but that's also the point. Young Carlton players never fully develop unless they are draft pick 1 and/or have some unique talent, and we don't develop them with a plan, and quit on them too early, and so we never get Ed Richards. Instead we're suiting up 23 year-old Flynn Young who we plucked out of the VFL mid-year

Sometimes bad picks are just bad picks, not every poor decision is a systemic indictment of the football club.

LOB had some promising attributes but never had that 'dog' in him and wasn't even looked at as a train on player by 17 other clubs. A player like Richards could afford to develop in the backline because he was at least competitive 1 on 1.

 

[SolGoodman]

We are one of the clubs going after Max Gruzewski (GWS).

Shrewd recruiting if we land him, a genuine swingman, can kick goals, can take a big grab and as C4 said was drafted as a defender.

 

[Dominator_7]

Shrewd recruiting if we land him, a genuine swingman, can kick goals, can take a big grab and as C4 said was drafted as a defender.

Would certainly cushion the loss of JSOS if the Judas doesn’t return from his various shopping trips

 

[Michael Jezz]

Cat out of the bag

Flynn Reily is the guy I want.

 

[TrueQldBlue]

If we can get pick 7 as compensation for TDK I say bring it on as we haven't got any low picks this year either...
BRING IT ON !!!!!

 

[SolGoodman]

His VFL numbers playing predominantly as a forward.

 

[Pixelshooter]

Shrewd recruiting if we land him, a genuine swingman, can kick goals, can take a big grab and as C4 said was drafted as a defender.

And importantly, he's an excellent kick.

 

[bigdog43]

Grezewski kicks goals for fun in the VFL. He’s just never had any continuity at the senior level because of Hogan, Riccardo and Cadman.

 

[Just Kreuzing]

Grezewski kicks goals for fun in the VFL. He’s just never had any continuity at the senior level because of Hogan, Riccardo and Cadman.

Can pinch hit in the ruck as well, maybe Harry on the move….

 

[Pablito]

Grezewski kicks goals for fun in the VFL. He’s just never had any continuity at the senior level because of Hogan, Riccardo and Cadman.

And now Stringer.

 

[katmanblue]

Flynn Reily is the guy I want.

If we miss out on him, that is reason enough that Lloyd must go. Regardless of what has gone before. Absolutely incomprehensible list management. Newman should have been on the lti list to open up a spot for us to list this bloke.

 

[ferrisb]

Justin Reid – Crows List Manager
He's overseen a steady, patient rebuild of the Crows list with a focus on local talent and smart trading (e.g., Jordan Dawson deal).

Has deep experience in managing rebuilds, youth development, and culture fit recruiting.

It would be genuinely hilarious if he came to Carlton.

Smart trading (e.g. Bryce Gibbs deal).

Would be even funnier if he tried to come across this year but we couldn't agree to terms.

Then we recruited him next year instead

 

[bigdog43]

Can pinch hit in the ruck as well, maybe Harry on the move….

I thought that too. Maybe we move the Silvagni compo pick for him? It’s a lot of talent out the door though

Out: SOS, Harry, TDK
In: Gruzewski, Campbell, pick 8, pick 11

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

And importantly, he's an excellent kick.

I know these aren't necessarily the same thing, but this gave me a chuckle.
Mind you, if he's getting around 5 shots on goal per game, that's something to work with.

 

[Billy Cart 07]

If we can get pick 7 as compensation for TDK I say bring it on as we haven't got any low picks this year either...
BRING IT ON !!!!!

Looks like Harry Dean is starting to shoot up phantom draft boards. Therefore, let's assume we just get in before a bid, will we have the draft capital to match any bid that follows soon after?

 

[agro]

If we miss out on him, that is reason enough that Lloyd must go. Regardless of what has gone before. Absolutely incomprehensible list management. Newman should have been on the lti list to open up a spot for us to list this bloke.

Saw him for the first time online for a Carlton VFL game a few weeks ago - was enough to tell me he was alright. We listed Alex Mirkov on less exposed form.

 

[ferrisb]

We are one of the clubs going after Max Gruzewski (GWS).

Great, he was hilarious in Monsters Inc!

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Can we plz nab Wardius along with him? Those two run amock in the VFL together, kick bags just about every time they step on the field.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

If we miss out on him, that is reason enough that Lloyd must go. Regardless of what has gone before. Absolutely incomprehensible list management. Newman should have been on the lti list to open up a spot for us to list this bloke.

It was a fairly baffling decision wasn't it?

 

[Sector 7G]

The reason we don't have an Ed Richards on our list is entirely the problem at Carlton, and it has nothing to do with drafting. It is entirely about a lack of patience and having absolutely no appetite to provide players with the space and support to develop.

Ed Richards is 26 and has just had a breakout year. His year by year stats since he was drafted:

• 2018 (age 19) = 13.6 disposals, 0.62 scoring shots, 2.43 tackles (20 games)
• 2019 (age 20) = 11.65, 1.1 scoring shots, 2.35 tackles (21 games)
• 2020 (age 21) = 10.76 , 0.64 scoring shots, 1.8 tackles (17 games)
• 2021 (age 22) = 13.6 disposals, 0.2 scoring shots, 1.8 tackles (5 games)

Note that after 3 seasons he had stagnated or even regressed from where he started. Played all over the place as a wing/back/mid, his scoring and tackles had even declined and by year 4 wasn't getting a run in the team.
- 2022 (age 23) = 18.45 disposals, 0 scoring shots, 1.64 tackles
Settled into a role as a defender and started to find a bit more of the ball. Still no score impact but at least getting the pill

• 2023 (age 24) = 21.21 disposals, 0.21 scoring shots, 1.89 tackles
• 2024 (age 25) = 21.38 disposals, 1.09 scoring shots, 3.67 tackles

Finally, in year 7 he goes onball, keeps getting the ball and has scoreboard and defensive pressure
- 2025 (age 26) = 25.8 disposals, 1.5 scoring shots, 3.75 tackles
In year 8 he breaks out as he his his prime

Let's compare Richards to our own Lochie O'Brien, drafted a couple of picks higher and a similar enough player:

• 2018 (age 19) = 13.9 disposals, 0.17 scoring shots, 1.44 tackles (18 games)
• 2019 (age 20) = 12.41 disposals, 0.65 scoring shots, 1.12 tackles (17 games)

Note at this stage, he's pretty much on par with Richards. Slightly different players but similar in impact

• 2020 (age 21) = 1 game only, as a sub (7 disposals). Spent the year in a covid bubble unable to train with the team
• 2021 (age 22) = 16 disposals, 0.8 scoring shots, 1.8 tackles (5 games)

Note that at age 22 O'Brien is objectively playing better footy than Richards, with both struggling to get into the team.
- 2022 (age 23) = 19 disposals, 0.73 scoring shots, 1.42 tackles (17 games)
Ummm... their trajectory is pretty much identical here, with O'Brien still arguably ahead. So where do we go with our developing mid?

• 2023 (age 24) = only plays 6 games, 4 of those as the sub. Dropped after his first full game (15 disposals, 3 tackles), brought back in for one more starting match, plays badly, dropped.
• End of 2023 = Delisted

Now you can swing this any way you like, but those two players were on an identical trajectory until 2022 and then... we just gave up. In the 2022 off-season we recruited Acres AND Hollands AND Binns who played the same position, and O'Brien seemed to be the scapegoat for our round 23 loss to Collingwood (a game in which he actually played pretty well, even in the last quarter) and just got thrown on the scrap heap.

I'm sure that can be countered with pot shots at O'Brien himself (I'm sure someone thinks he wasn't a hard enoug worker or he was too slow or something) or some other defence, but that's also the point. Young Carlton players never fully develop unless they are draft pick 1 and/or have some unique talent, and we don't develop them with a plan, and quit on them too early, and so we never get Ed Richards. Instead we're suiting up 23 year-old Flynn Young who we plucked out of the VFL mid-year

Who can forget the game in 22 when they played on each other and LOB had 25 and Richards had 15 including LOB coralling and then tackling ER for the free.

 

[SolGoodman]

Can we plz nab Wardius along with him? Those two run amock in the VFL together, kick bags just about every time they step on the field.

That jump in goalscoring from 2024 to 2025

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Gruzewski is contracted so it wouldn’t surprise me if he cost us TDK compo (if we are worried about a bid for Dean) with later picks coming back this and next year for points which would give us some flexibility.
They have several players like Gothard who would also make decent targets as They have been recruiting types we are desperate for so personally I hope we can try to lure someone else along with him.