Rumour Bluemour Discussion XXXVIII

[Aphrodite]

#BUMP from February


Re: 'Alleged' rumours resurfacing ...

Folks, this is the way things are here.

Posters are responsible for what they post. Moderators can not attest to the accuracy or otherwise of any rumour posted.

Moderators will intervene for a couple of reasons.

1. If a thread is threatening to be derailed because of a post.

2. If invested parties request the removal of material.

None of this draws a conclusion as to the accuracy or otherwise of the original post.

There is no need to further speculate. What will be will be.

Also, you need to remember that this thread like all parts of this forum is bound by the rules of poster conduct. If you want to express skepticism towards a rumour that's fine, but having a crack at posters who are contributors to this forum is simply not on and will be acted upon.

Simply put, don't be a dick.

Thanks all!

 

[3rd Grade Maggy]

Can't agree. If ever there was a draft to have 2 bites in the first round, it was that one.

We sold the farm to try and get FOS, missed, took Jagga instead and pretended he was always our target, and then he did an ACL. And the guys who ended up going at our picks were Joe Berry and Murphy Reid.

I really can't view the 2024 draft (and whole off-season) as anything but an unmitigated disaster for us.

 

[DangerousD]

A young coach is good, but one who played at the top level.

Not a teacher like Bolton and our AFLW coach who is also a teacher.

No teachers !!!!!!!! Had to have played at high level of AFL.

Just like Fagan, oh wait.

 

[Blue__Balls]

So a better way to look it is what % of 2nd/3rd time coaches win a flag?

Only if you then compare it to the same stat for 1st time coaches. There are significantly more coaches who get one go and then the boot, versus coaches who get a second go at it.

Something I think is anecdotally interesting is that 4 of the 5 "second chance" coaches currently going round have their teams in the bottom 6. I'm not sure if it would be fair to draw a conclusion about their ability, but maybe more speculate that it's generally clubs in the bottom half of the ladder who seek out "experienced" coaches to try and lift them up.

Would that indicate that it's a bit more of a desperation move? Or maybe it needs to be a transitional thing - the off-field and on-field aren't connecting properly, bring in an experienced head coach to try and get things aligned because a first time coach is going to be set up to fail in the current environment?

Maybe we're that dysfunctional that a flag needs to take a back seat in our considerations - focus on becoming a top 6 club, then staying a top 6 club, and maybe an experienced coach is what is needed for that objective. Then if we pinch a flag, awesome, but if not we're at least in a position where things are theoretically going well enough that we can transition to a new first time coach and not be handing them a flaming bag of shit.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Yes he got bent over there after declaring interest in Gibbs very early, perhaps he was inexperienced at the time, he did however if i recall correctly, use great Loveridge to squeeze Dawson for a bargain, got Rankine, ANB, Peatling and Cumming, whilst drafting some really good players.

Has done a good job imo

Maybe he's done well...maybe he's cashed in on the go-home factor in a two-club town. I think Carlton is a very different prospect to Adelaide, so the "past results do not guarantee future results" caveat absolutely needs to be applied.

 

[GoBlues!]

If the club does go full rebuild. It sounds like Cripps is willing to help the club out and get the best deal the club can get. If he’s not fussed what WA team he ends up at

You never go full rebuild sweethoney, you just don’t…

 

[passmark]

Just like Fagan, oh wait.

Brisbanes list could make a lot of average coaches look good.

Turning a list that might only be just better than average into a premiership team might be a lot more challenging.

Throw in the culture problems that pervade Princes Park we’re going to need something special.

 

[Blue since 72]

Coaches get picked over each other every season and are proven the be the wrong choice. It doesn't mean much.

And who's to say McQualter was the wrong choice? I don't think that basket case could be fixed in 1 season by any coach, ever. That's a long-term repair job for anyone. Nicks has taken ~5 yrs to show he was the right choice.

This is the thing.

All anyone connected with the club wants to see when a new coach is appointed is progression. It may take a couple of years, it may take longer but as long as we see things heading in the right direction we're happy.

Voss hasn't managed to do this and while he's not the only reason it hasn't happened he's the figurehead for positive change on field so he wears the results.

 

[muzza99]

Was McQualter selected over Skipworth? And if so, what does that say?

Maybe Skipworth purposely tanked because he had to do the interview for Centrelink anyway but didn't really want it anyway....just ticking it off.

 

[Bundy Bear Bogan]

Nothing. That's normal, most successful coaches would've interviewed for other jobs and been knocked back. Learning how to interview well is a skill most people develop over time.

Because you learn the art of interviewing well, doesn't mean you do the job well. Just u interview well. Proven again and again

 

[DangerousD]

Buckley would be a great senior assistant if we were to go an inexperienced coach, same with Longmire or Simpson.

 

[Jatz]

Buckley would be a great senior assistant if we were to go an inexperienced coach, same with Longmire or Simpson.

Really don't see why he'd go back to assistant coaching. Suspect it'll be head coach or nothing for Buckley.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Brisbanes list could make a lot of average coaches look good.

Turning a list that might only be just better than average into a premiership team might be a lot more challenging.

Throw in the culture problems that pervade Princes Park we’re going to need something special.

He took on a basket case and turned them around. I think they went from wooden spoon to second on the ladder in his first 3 seasons

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I'm still backing Austin. I think he's not been perfect but i like the direction he's been moving, i like our last few years of draftees and bargain pickups. I thought the move to get a blue chip player in Jagga last year was the right call and i am in favour of refreshing the playing list, something the club started last season.

I'm more concerned about how long it has taken to recognise and add to areas we are deficient. We have not tried to add pace with any urgency, especially in our midfield.

Of course the big issue is paying too much to too few. We are top-heavy and haven't risked losing our top players in order to keep the list balanced.

 

[Bluebag13]

So a better way to look it is what % of 2nd/3rd time coaches win a flag?

Maybe but I'm guessing you would find that there isn't a big enough sample size to really see if there is any real proof to it.

Strictly opinion now, but I think you just go with the best coach based off the selection process, hoping that process is sound, robust, and stuck to.
Going in with any bias be it 2nd time or 1st time coach or any other bias I think will only hurt you.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

Really don't see why he'd go back to assistant coaching. Suspect it'll be head coach or nothing for Buckley.

He might see it as a good way to get back into it before a head coach opportunity comes up.
Same with Simpson.

 

[Coops93]

Really don't see why he'd go back to assistant coaching. Suspect it'll be head coach or nothing for Buckley.

I wonder how that would go, given he's been out of the job for a while now. I think wetting the feet by being an assistant up until Tasmania launch would be good for him.

I think he'll be a better coach this time round but coming in cold and going right into that position wouldn't be a smooth transition you wouldn't think.

 

[kreuze_missile]

You never go full rebuild sweethoney, you just don’t…

View attachment 2388340

The draft hasn't been a viable path to a premiership in the 18-team era.

North Melbourne's never-ending rebuild is a warning to anyone.

While we shouldn't totally gut the joint, but we have a massive talent gap in the age 21-27 bracket that needs addressing unless we aspire to be the next West Coast.

 

[Jatz]

He might see it as a good way to get back into it before a head coach opportunity comes up.
Same with Simpson.

Don't think he'll need it really. He's still been in and around the game plenty.

Makes more sense to me that he'd continue with his cushy media work until something pops up that he likes.

 

[KnobHead]

I never attacked anyone and not sure where that is coming from KnobHead.

Was only just pointing out the differences in both posts and my post wasn't the only one to point out the differences in the 'wording' of both posts that could be interpreted differently.

Wasn’t meaning you Aph about the attacking, meant other posters. apologies if there’s a misunderstanding

 

[Coops93]

The draft hasn't been a viable path to a premiership in the 18-team era.

North Melbourne's never-ending rebuild is a warning to anyone.

While we shouldn't totally gut the joint, but we have a massive talent gap in the age 21-27 bracket that needs addressing unless we aspire to be the next West Coast.

Free Agency has been a hinderment to rebuilds. This idea players would leave and move to lower ranked clubs was always smoke and mirrors.

In a salary cap league, where they aren't making the money of American sports, I don't think the difference of $150k ($80 odd after tax) is going to convince someone to go from a contending team to a bottom 4 team. Whoever tried to argue that point earnestly is incredibly naive.

The top clubs can forever keep topping up with players from the bottom teams who've had enough of rebuilding, which means the bottom teams need to keep rebuilding.

F/S and academy has made it even worse. Academies have been creeping for a while, but even high end F/S picks are at an all time high, the draft is so compromised now it hasn't been a sound rebuilding tool for years now. Several GF teams lately have been built off a core of F/S picks so you just have to get lucky these days.

 

[CJMB]

Maybe so but we have to question how training for power over endurance has hurt the team running out games given the players on our list. It is why a one size fits all training programme is not necessarily the best.

Hopefully an extra preseason will see improvements.

but also a game style that only functions with unrelenting pressure and brute force delivered across the full game. So he's wanting peak power AND peak endurance for it to work

 

[sparkybagger]

i think parko's a bit past it now tbh

Speaking from experience....he taught like he coached!

 

[CJMB]

Interesting.

Makes little sense if Kemp and the key forwards are staying.

plays both ends, HOF out for a year, Jack gone, Kemp and Lemmey still unsigned (but very much hoping Kemp is retained), questions over Harry & Charlie.

 

[passmark]

He took on a basket case and turned them around. I think they went from wooden spoon to second on the ladder in his first 3 seasons

You can do that when you recruit, draft and trade exceptionally.

But you are right that some people do it better. Leon Cameron and Kingsley have had incredible lists but not gone far enough.

I’d also say that Hinkley should have done more with what he has.

Brisbane also have a terrific admin which includes the board. something we still haven’t got right.

 

[Bearded Carpenter]

Easy to overlook

Are you saying this is due to a shortage…