How good were West Coast in 1992 when they won the flag?

[BigVic]

Beat hawks in an Elim final, beat cats in a semi final, then beat the cats again in the grand final

The McIntyre system allowed a rematch of the semi

 

[GC2015]

wow really...AFL players were gifted juniors..the mind boggles
Peter Wilson 1st played for Richmond..maybe take your own advice

If you're going to make the claim then you better hope you have your facts in order, which you didn't.

West Coast had exclusive/priority access to the best WA juniors for their first 5 years in the VFL/AFL competition. With that in mind, it's not surprising that the WA state team was made up of mostly West Coast players 5-7 years after their introduction into the big league. That's why people often say the Eagles had a state side in the early 90s, because the WA state team literally was mostly made up of West Coast players when they won those 92 + 94 flags and that came about on the back of having exclusive/priority access to the best WA players in those first 5 years.

Even if you want to ignore Peter Wilson, it still applies to Dwayne Lamb. So you're wrong. Again.

 

[Grumpyshades]

If you're going to make the claim then you better hope you have your facts in order, which you didn't.

West Coast had exclusive/priority access to the best WA juniors for their first 5 years in the VFL/AFL competition. With that in mind, it's not surprising that the WA state team was made up of mostly West Coast players 5-7 years after their introduction into the big league. That's why people often say the Eagles had a state side in the early 90s, because the WA state team literally was mostly made up of West Coast players when they won those 92 + 94 flags and that came about on the back of having exclusive/priority access to the best WA players in those first 5 years.

Even if you want to ignore Peter Wilson, it still applies to Dwayne Lamb. So you're wrong. Again.

again the Eagles drafted players from their zone like every team in the league did back then..It was not advantage that only the Eagles enjoyed
your ignorant argument is cart before the horse logic
they were not state players when they were drafted which you clearly suggested.

Your argument is basically a WA team enters a national comp but it was unfair they created it from wa players...lol...Or you are only allowed to enter the comp but you can't pick good players

Compared to the endless 'leg up' your club has enjoyed since entering, its hilarious you're whinging about the very limited start up The eagles were given nearly 40 years ago

 

[Defabs]

If you were good enough to beat the Eagles in 1992, you would have beaten the Saints in the first place.

The point being WC would not have played in a double chance semi final against Gee, and instead would have played in an elimination semi final against Footscray at Waverley had Coll beaten St K

 

[Freomaniac]

again the Eagles drafted players from their zone like every team in the league did back then..It was not advantage that only the Eagles enjoyed
your ignorant argument is cart before the horse logic
they were not state players when they were drafted which you clearly suggested.

Your argument is basically a WA team enters a national comp but it was unfair they created it from wa players...lol...Or you are only allowed to enter the comp but you can't pick good players

Compared to the endless 'leg up' your club has enjoyed since entering, its hilarious you're whinging about the very limited start up The eagles were given nearly 40 years ago

Well before the 1987 season, hawks had the best recruiting zone. That partially explains why they won flags in 1971, 1976, 1978, 1983 and 1986 flags

 

[Grumpyshades]

Well before the 1987 season, hawks had the best recruiting zone. That partially explains why they won flags in 1971, 1976, 1978, 1983 and 1986 flags

no no no according to the GC twit only the Eagles had pre draft access to young players

 

[GC2015]

again the Eagles drafted players from their zone like every team in the league did back then..It was not advantage that only the Eagles enjoyed
your ignorant argument is cart before the horse logic

Firstly, the Victorian zones were already abolished by 1986/87 when West Coast entered the league. So once again, you're wrong. And even if you were right, are you really ignorant enough to think West Coast being assigned the entire state of WA as their zone was comparable to the state of Victoria being divided into 11 separate zones?

they were not state players when they were drafted which you clearly suggested.

Why do you keep ignoring the fact that proves your theory incorrect? Dwayne Lamb was a WA state player in 1985 & 1986 before being zoned to play for West Coast in 1987. You're objectively wrong and refusing to acknowledge it.

Your argument is basically a WA team enters a national comp but it was unfair they created it from wa players...lol...Or you are only allowed to enter the comp but you can't pick good players

That was not my argument at all. West Coast were able to accumulate the best players WA had to offer during their first 5 years in the VFL/AFL competition through their exclusive/priority zone access and that led to many players being selected for the WA state team in the 92 + 94 premiership seasons. Understand?

 

[Freomaniac]

The McIntyre system allowed a rematch of the semi

I know. But it was a strange and confusing system when AFL had that top 6 finals system from 1991 to 1993.

At least the top 5 system was clear cut. Top spot gave you the biggest advantage with a week off and a double chance and the easiest path to a grand final.

2nd and 3rd gave you a double chance if you lost. Win that game you face the top side the next week for a grand final spot

4th and 5th was basically Elim final. So you you are done when you lose. And to win a flag from 4th or 5th spot, you have to go through anyone.

 

[Freomaniac]

no no no according to the GC twit only the Eagles had pre draft access to young players

Even though there was a national draft from 1986 onwards, there were still restrictions.

Eagles were allowed some pre draft picks from 1987 to 1991.

I still remember the 1991 draft specifically with some restrictions.

The Victorian sides in that 1991 draft were only allowed to choose one WAFL player that season. The Victorian sides couldn't touch any SANFL players in the 1990 and 1991 drafts with the Adelaide crows coming in

 

[Grumpyshades]

Firstly, the Victorian zones were already abolished by 1986/87 when West Coast entered the league. So once again, you're wrong. And even if you were right, are you really ignorant enough to think West Coast being assigned the entire state of WA as their zone was comparable to the state of Victoria being divided into 11 separate zones?


Why do you keep ignoring the fact that proves your theory incorrect? Dwayne Lamb was a WA state player in 1985 & 1986 before being zoned to play for West Coast in 1987. You're objectively wrong and refusing to acknowledge it.


That was not my argument at all. West Coast were able to accumulate the best players WA had to offer during their first 5 years in the VFL/AFL competition through their exclusive/priority zone access and that led to many players being selected for the WA state team in the 92 + 94 premiership seasons. Understand?

your salty narrative was the Eagles were able to fill the squad with already state level accomplished players..This is simply false. They were a very young and inexperienced squad..The fact years later a lot of these players went on to play state footy is completely different to what you were implying!!

Congrats on finding 1 player out of 35 that fits your narrative. This doesn't make you right. It makes you unequivocally wrong with 1 exception
Or more precise 2.8% right and 97.2% wrong

and lets just ignore the FACT that Dwayne Lamb was passed by every Vic club before the Eagles were able to draft him

 

[GC2015]

your salty narrative was the Eagles were able to fill the squad with already state level accomplished players..This is simply false. They were a very young and inexperienced squad..The fact years later a lot of these players went on to play state footy is completely different to what you were implying!!

Mate, I didn't state that anywhere. You've literally made up a narrative and accused me of pushing it. Here's the OP that you quoted - show me where it states/implies the Eagles were able to fill their squad with already state level accomplished players?

Must have been pretty good to have 14 players from their list included in the 1991 WA state team and 13 players from their list included in the 1992 WA state team.

• 1991 - 14 (Heady, Jakovich, Kemp, Lamb, Langdon, Mainwaring, Matera, McIntosh, McKenna, Pyke, Sumich, Turley, Waterman, Watters)
• 1992 - 13 (Hepburn, Jakovich, Kemp, Lamb, Langdon, Lewis, Mainwaring, Matera, McIntosh, Waterman, Watters, Wilson, Worsfold)

The question in the thread is - how good were West Coast in 1992 when they won the flag? My answer - must have been pretty good to have 14 players from their list included in the 1991 WA state team and 13 players from their list included in the 1992 WA state team. It was never stated or implied that they were able to fill their squad with already state level accomplished players (even though Lamb was one).

In case you're not already aware (I think you are aware of this) the U18 WA state team won the national championship for the first time in 1985 and a good amount of those players went on to be zoned to the Eagles a year later when they were permitted entry into the VFL. They were referred to as the magnificent seven. Then the Eagles continued to have exclusive/priority access to WA players until the early 90s and it allowed them to recruit other stars like Jakovich and McIntosh.

tl/dr - West Coast were given access to a very talented WA juniors in their first 5 years and were able to devleop a lot of them into state players by the early 90s.

 

[Altum Volantes]

Mate, I didn't state that anywhere. You've literally made up a narrative and accused me of pushing it. Here's the OP that you quoted - show me where it states/implies the Eagles were able to fill their squad with already state level accomplished players?



The question in the thread is - how good were West Coast in 1992 when they won the flag? My answer - must have been pretty good to have 14 players from their list included in the 1991 WA state team and 13 players from their list included in the 1992 WA state team. It was never stated or implied that they were able to fill their squad with already state level accomplished players (even though Lamb was one).

In case you're not already aware (I think you are aware of this) the U18 WA state team won the national championship for the first time in 1985 and a good amount of those players went on to be zoned to the Eagles a year later when they were permitted entry into the VFL. They were referred to as the magnificent seven. Then the Eagles continued to have exclusive/priority access to WA players until the early 90s and it allowed them to recruit other stars like Jakovich and McIntosh.

tl/dr - West Coast were given access to a very talented WA juniors in their first 5 years and were able to devleop a lot of them into state players by the early 90s.

5 out of 7 from the 'Magnificent 7' had signifant careers at West Coast.

Ashley McIntosh was a father-son selection based on his dad's WAFL record - something that has been in place for every new club in SA and WA (not sure about NSW/QLD) in lieu of the ability to draw from past players at the time.

We did get Mitchell White too via priority draft selections alongside Jakovich.

These were required because the initial squad only had 35 players - it wasn't until the early 90s that the Eagles had 50+ on the list which aligned with the rest of the comp.

Anyway.

On topic.

The 1992 Eagles team (and by extension the 1994 team which was basically the same core group) were one of the top teams of the last 50 years. That's how good they were.

Anyone who followed the game at the time knows that.

 

[Scotland]

tl/dr - West Coast were given access to a very talented WA juniors in their first 5 years and were able to devleop a lot of them into state players by the early 90s.

Ah yes. The old "given access" chestnut. Is there anything WC were denied access to? Like say drafting from outside WA, signing players before the license was granted, having the same list size as other clubs...

The 1991 WC GF side (better H&A record but lost GF) had 3 100 gamers in it and one player older than 27. By 1992 we had managed to get up to 7 100 gamers. Norm Smith medallist Peter Matera was playing game 54. WC were less experienced than the 1993 'baby Bombers'.

It's been almost 40 years and people still think WC were given an armchair ride into the VFL/AFL. WC like every other team to join the comp after 1925 had to build a team from somewhere.

Feel free to do some light reading.

Analysis - Was the inaugural WCE team a state team?

I was born in the early 90's so I don't know much about this topic. On this forum whenever our 92 and 94 premiership is brought up, there's always someone who says that we were 'essentially a state team'. I was wondering if anyone could clarify this, maybe a link to a video of our history or an...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[garlic munchers]

If you're going to make the claim then you better hope you have your facts in order, which you didn't.

West Coast had exclusive/priority access to the best WA juniors for their first 5 years in the VFL/AFL competition. With that in mind, it's not surprising that the WA state team was made up of mostly West Coast players 5-7 years after their introduction into the big league. That's why people often say the Eagles had a state side in the early 90s, because the WA state team literally was mostly made up of West Coast players when they won those 92 + 94 flags and that came about on the back of having exclusive/priority access to the best WA players in those first 5 years.

Even if you want to ignore Peter Wilson, it still applies to Dwayne Lamb. So you're wrong. Again.

So Gold Coast were effectively a 2009/10 QLD State Team plus a 2011 all Australian Team with 9 of the first 15 picks.

How on earth did they stuff it up???

 

[Freomaniac]

nope..every Vic club had the opportunity to draft any WAFL players before the initial Eagles squad was formed

Well Chris Mainwaring was 21 years and 106 days when he had his debut game for west coast in round 3 of 1987.

Surprised no VFL club looked at him at the end of 1985 or 1986

 

[Scotland]

Well Chris Mainwaring was 21 years and 106 days when he had his debut game for west coast in round 3 of 1987.

Surprised no VFL club looked at him at the end of 1985 or 1986

It was 1986.

22 of the state side were playing in the WAFL. 9 played in the VFL.

Phil Narkle joined St Kilda at 23. Gary Buckenara Hawthorn at 24. Brad Hardie Footscray 23. Etc. Very different era.

 

[Grumpyshades]

Mate, I didn't state that anywhere. You've literally made up a narrative and accused me of pushing it. Here's the OP that you quoted - show me where it states/implies the Eagles were able to fill their squad with already state level accomplished players?



The question in the thread is - how good were West Coast in 1992 when they won the flag? My answer - must have been pretty good to have 14 players from their list included in the 1991 WA state team and 13 players from their list included in the 1992 WA state team. It was never stated or implied that they were able to fill their squad with already state level accomplished players (even though Lamb was one).

In case you're not already aware (I think you are aware of this) the U18 WA state team won the national championship for the first time in 1985 and a good amount of those players went on to be zoned to the Eagles a year later when they were permitted entry into the VFL. They were referred to as the magnificent seven. Then the Eagles continued to have exclusive/priority access to WA players until the early 90s and it allowed them to recruit other stars like Jakovich and McIntosh.

tl/dr - West Coast were given access to a very talented WA juniors in their first 5 years and were able to devleop a lot of them into state players by the early 90s.

ok I may have misinterpreted your meaning

 

[VicBased]

Ridiculous finals system only allowed WCE a sniff of winning the flag.

The old top 5 until 1990 ensured you had a double chance if you finished third. The top 8 from 1994 ensured you were only eliminated from third spot if both 1st and 2nd ranked teams lost in week 1.

But for a 3 year period you were automatically eliminated if you lost in week 1 from third.

Pies missed top spot by %. They had 16 wins too! There was no way that the eagles would have won the flag had the pies beaten the saints in the EF. It was a finals quirk that allowed the eagles to win the flag. Nothing more

But you didn't beat the Saints,,,did you,?

 

[Scotland]

In case you're not already aware (I think you are aware of this) the U18 WA state team won the national championship for the first time in 1985 and a good amount of those players went on to be zoned to the Eagles a year later when they were permitted entry into the VFL. They were referred to as the magnificent seven. Then the Eagles continued to have exclusive/priority access to WA players until the early 90s and it allowed them to recruit other stars like Jakovich and McIntosh.

The magnificent 7 was John Worsfold, Chris Waterman, Peter Sumich, Guy McKenna, Chris Lewis, Paul Peos and Scott Watters.

There were drafts in 1981 and 1982, then from 1986 onwards. First 4 picks of the 1982 draft were from the WAFL. #1 was Andrew Purser who was 24. #2 pick was Allan Sidebottom who was 23. #3 was Gary Shaw who was 23. Rod Lester-Smith went at pick 10, also 23.

Fast forward to 1986. First pick was Martin Leslie, 24. Third pick Stephen Febey, 17 (!). Sixth pick Richard Cousins, 24. Brisbane had 6 pre draft selections, all aged 22-25. Clubs didn't care about the draft, and those that made picks didn't prioritise drafting 17 and 18 year olds from interstate.

There was no conspiracy from the VFL to let WC horde all the local junior talent. The VFL's paranoia was that WC would bring back all the established WA stars of the VFL and add them to the best players of the WAFL and create a super team. So they limited list size and delayed entry and then pushed the club down a path that others weren't taking at the time.

 

[Scotland]

But you didn't beat the Saints,,,did you,?

If WC lost GFs in 92, 94, 06 and 18 the club would have 0 flags.

 

[Frappe]

Chemistry of the side was immense.

 

[VicBased]

If WC lost GFs in 92, 94, 06 and 18 the club would have 0 flags.

Well, thank fcuk we did not lose them hey.
On a serious note though it amazes me how hateful Vics are that the success of WC interferes with how they think football should be upheld in this country .
They are loving where we are at the moment but disregarding that we will rise again to haunt them.

 

[randyzany]

I fail to see the difference about whether the Weagles players were developed into state level players at WC or were already state level footballers when they were recruited in the 80s when the Weagles were let into the competition.

Nobody is arguing that they were gifted these players by the AFL on a silver plater but that the incompetence of the administrators at the time is what facilitated this travesty to happen and subsequently denied Geelong 1 or 2 deserved flags.

Once the league transitioned into the draft system fully the Weagles, similar to Hawthorn, fell away hard and it was a huge telltale sign that their successes were fuelled by a huge advantage in talent that they were unwittingly and foolishly allowed access to, compared to the rest of the clubs.

This thread and the OP explained clearly the unfairness of it all:

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/were-west-coast-really-a-state-team-in-the-early-90s.1123696/

State reps from West Coast
1990 - 10 (Hart, Heady, Irving, Jakovich, Langdon, Lewis, Mainwaring, Malaxos, Sumich, Wilson)

1991 - 14 (Heady, Jakovich, Kemp, Lamb, Langdon, Mainwaring, Matera, McIntosh, McKenna, Pyke, Sumich, Turley, Waterman, Watters)

1992 - 13 (Hepburn, Jakovich, Kemp, Lamb, Langdon, Lewis, Mainwaring, Matera, McIntosh, Waterman, Watters, Wilson, Worsfold)

1993 - 7 (Heady, Jakovich, Lewis, Matera, Sumich, Wilson, Worsfold)

1994 - Did not play

1995 - 9 (Banfield, Evans, Hart, Jakovich, Langdon, Lewis, Symmons, Turnbull, Waterman)

Did any other team in the AFL have that many state reps in the early 90s?

Of course Weagles fans don't like the truth and are screeching like banshees that it devalues their success. Well facts are facts, deal with it. At least show such a grace about how your club achieved such success and stop pretending that it was like the success that other clubs achieved that relied solely on the draft at that time.

I suspect that they were roided up to their eyeballs as well. Weagles looked more beefed up than prime Mr Olympia Arnie back in the 90s. lol

 

[Freomaniac]

The magnificent 7 was John Worsfold, Chris Waterman, Peter Sumich, Guy McKenna, Chris Lewis, Paul Peos and Scott Watters.

There were drafts in 1981 and 1982, then from 1986 onwards. First 4 picks of the 1982 draft were from the WAFL. #1 was Andrew Purser who was 24. #2 pick was Allan Sidebottom who was 23. #3 was Gary Shaw who was 23. Rod Lester-Smith went at pick 10, also 23.

Fast forward to 1986. First pick was Martin Leslie, 24. Third pick Stephen Febey, 17 (!). Sixth pick Richard Cousins, 24. Brisbane had 6 pre draft selections, all aged 22-25. Clubs didn't care about the draft, and those that made picks didn't prioritise drafting 17 and 18 year olds from interstate.

There was no conspiracy from the VFL to let WC horde all the local junior talent. The VFL's paranoia was that WC would bring back all the established WA stars of the VFL and add them to the best players of the WAFL and create a super team. So they limited list size and delayed entry and then pushed the club down a path that others weren't taking at the time.

Keep in mind Martin Leslie was 24 years old when he was pick 1 in 1986. He didn't go to Brisbane until the end of 1988 when he got a flag in the SANFL at Port Adelaide

 

[JackFlash]

They were certainly developed alright. I wonder where they all are today?