West Coast - When will the AFL step in?

[Altum Volantes]

It’s not about one player mate. It’s about the dilution of senior players lost due to trading them away and injury.

Losing Darling, Allen and Ryan as individual pieces aren’t big, but altogether, especially when Waterman is coming off a season ending injury and has had one good season, is a risk.
It means you rely on Owies as your leader up forward.

I’ve been pretty clear in that and it’s not hard for most to comprehend. I might have overestimated some posters though.

Mate. Please.

Rebuilding sides turn over experienced players.
Poor performing sides lose players to other teams.

Regardless - Ryan and Allen haven't even departed the club yet - we have had those guys....for this season. Where we won 1 game.

So really, you are basing this off the departure of Jack Darling, someone who even the most hardened Eagles bashing Purple on this site would agree hasnt fired a shot in around 5 years and only served to slow the development of a promising crop of young talls in his final seasons with the club. It was 100% time to move on. Nobody will support you including his name in your half baked analysis.

 

[Corkintheocean]

How did he have better averages?

Amiss - 1.34 goals a game
Williams - 1.23 goals a game

Amiss has kicked 112 goals in his career and Williams has kicked 37.


That talent doesn't have to be 1st year players.


For 10 years, yes. Although recent stuff is too early to tell due to the time it takes for players to emerge. Therefore it might be a 7 year period that you have stuffed up and only time will tell if the system has been fixed in the past three seasons.

Pretty disingenuous argument going by goals per game. Freo scored 30% more than West Coast this year. Like for Like Williams would be scoring 1.66 goals a game playing for Fremantle with their structure

 

[Scotland]

2 firsts and 2 seconds for Tim Kelly was pretty bad in hind sight you must admit. If West Coast won another flag with him though we wouldnt be having this conversation.

Was a poor trade at the time and in hindsight. Kelly has still played 115 games and won a B&F though. 2019 was an anomaly but he's had seasons of 12, 24, 11, 10, 11 Brownlow votes. Three of those came at WC, he's hardly been a bust.

That said talking about the Kelly trade now is on the same nuffington level as saying 'WC are the richest club'. OK, how does your bank balance prevent you from using 47 players in a season? Can we buy pick 1 off North? We aren't Man City.

The actual picks traded for Tim Kelly were 16 (Cooper Stephens), 27 (Jeremy Sharp), 38 (Nick Bryan), 18 (Ryan Angwin). Sure you can always find other players taken after specific picks but let's not pretend WC gave up prime assets or that we missed out on generational talent. We overpaid given the leverage of the situation but you don't get 25 year old midfielders who just made the AA side for nothing. Take your pick of any of the 20-something mids in last year's AA side and tell me which club would prefer picks 16 and 18 over the player...

 

[Corkintheocean]

The AFL have a problem, former footballing powerhouses Carlton and Essendon are now mediocre clubs enduring their worst football drought since inception, the problem is they both have huge memberships and support. West Coast are arguably the richest club in the League with a huge membership and can't beat an egg. They only won a flag 7 years ago and are crying out for help? Is it so bad though? They will get picks 1 & 2 in this year's draft and they just resigned the overrated Harley Reid for a fortune for two more years, he better start winning them some games off his own boot in that time instead of being the petulant king? I suspect he will bide his time until a club in Melbourne can actually do a trade deal with West Coast, he's not going to a dud team that's for sure. The Eagles need to get their recruiting sorted out, they don't need any other help.

Agree we need to sort our recruiting out. Scrap academy picks and F&S tainting the draft and we will right our ship soon enough.

Blatantly ignoring those two factors as contributors to our slow reversal of fortunes speaks more to your inability to understand (either wilfully or ignorantly) that talent distribution has become inequitable across the league.

 

[JackFlash]

Why would Melbourne clubs want the 'overrated' Harley Reid?

They were all clamoring for him, Hawthorn have gone into mourning since he re-signed! I don't see why they want him so much? Reid is barely in the top 100 players and that's doubtful, clubs are desperate and it's all getting silly now. Good luck to him, but his salary is ridiculous.

 

[bzparkes]

They were all clamoring for him, Hawthorn have gone into mourning since he re-signed! I don't see why they want him so much? Reid is barely in the top 100 players and that's doubtful, clubs are desperate and it's all getting silly now. Good luck to him, but his salary is ridiculous.

What salary? A third year rookie contract?

 

[JackFlash]

What salary? A third year rookie contract?

His new deal of $2 million, i know my fellow Aussies are not bright, but geez...

 

[bzparkes]

His new deal of $2 million, i know my fellow Aussies are not bright, but geez...

Which doesn't start until 2027.

If you're going to accuse others of not being bright then you should probably understand the basics of how contracts work instead of making yourself look stupid.

 

[Big_Birdy]

Within ten years of winning a flag you should get nothing.

Within five years of trading three firsts for another tilt at a flag… nothing.

I’m fine with the father son rule. Northern academies and making teams pay up is what is required.

Of course a Freo supporter would set this as the rule.

How convenient.

 

[_Mike_]

Under the current leadership the AFL wont step in, Footy Classifieds is sending the pitchfork army!

 

[Altum Volantes]

Under the current leadership the AFL wont step in, Footy Classifieds is sending the pitchfork army!



View attachment 2409063

Meh, what is one more?

Short of ordering a public flogging of Don Pyke and forcing him to apologise to everyone for being really shit, it's unlikely 'assistance package' will be supported by Vic media...but ya know, who would expect anything less? **** them.

 

[garlic munchers]

Meh, what is one more?

Short of ordering a public flogging of Don Pyke and forcing him to apologise to everyone for being really shit, it's unlikely 'assistance package' will be supported by Vic media...but ya know, who would expect anything less? **** them.

Moronic focus by Vic media on denying WC a priority pick whilst Brissie continue to build the foundations of years of dominance off AFL assistance, the suns up by 9 goals late in the 2nd over the Bombers with a production line of academy picks coming up and GWS looking good thank you very much.

Fiddling whilst ‘Rome’ starts to burn seems apt.

 

[poshman]

Of course a Freo supporter would set this as the rule.

How convenient.

It’s generous. One every eighteen years is par. Getting help after ten years lets you have a shot at one in eighteen.

 

[chaddy22]

I have the opposite view.

They have traded (and will trade) too many players away that will expose their young core too much and hinder their development long term unless they get some older retreads in to support them.

I see no value in turfing Ryan for a future second rounder after losing Allen and Darling and relying on Waterman coming back from injury after one good season.

The injuries to the players they chose to keep in Sheed, McGovern and Yeo only exacerbates this decision to cut too deep.

They can’t go full youth and need some senior support.

Expect more retreads of the likes of Owies and Graham to come in on the cheap to support this group over the next 3-4 years to replace the guys they have shepherded out.

The free kick they will get in not having their laughable Allen compo watered down is a decent enough ask. It’s essentially giving them an end of first rounder that they get to use of Starcevich. Best they use it on a senior player to support the kids, that’s what assistance should be used for.

Add some more list spots for the next three years and that helps them without impacting the rest of the comp too much.

The Eagles are not turfing out Ryan.St. Kilda are coming for him.
Keeping Darling would be holding back Shanahan and another young kpf.
Yeo finds all manne rof ways to get injured.Had he gone to Adelaide we would have been criticised.
Mcgovern was still playing good football and you can never forsee an end of career to concussion on what looked a minor incident.
Sheed was again one of those injuries to a player who wasn't all that old.
There are so many stupid opinions out there that will criticise us for holding onto players or losing players.
In the end we have contributed to our downfall but we have lost players to injuries too early.
We have lost more players to concussions then anybody. Shepherd, Venables Edwards, Mcgovern
We also have been trying to rebuild in a compromised draft where you don't always have access to the best players.

 

[Cleric]

Under the current leadership the AFL wont step in, Footy Classifieds is sending the pitchfork army!



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Im surprised they didnt mention the Crows camp again.

 

[Cleric]

Meh, what is one more?

Short of ordering a public flogging of Don Pyke and forcing him to apologise to everyone for being really shit, it's unlikely 'assistance package' will be supported by Vic media...but ya know, who would expect anything less? **** them.

I think you are right. James Hird was going on about how WC shouldn't get any assistance as they won a flag in the last decade and are one of the most financial clubs in the AFL. They should have to spend more soft cap money to bring in more coaches etc, even if it means paying 50% of it as a soft cap tax.

The Victorian media really dont want to see either SA or WA clubs get the same assistance as Northern or Victorian clubs.

 

[Cleric]

The Eagles are not turfing out Ryan.St. Kilda are coming for him.
Keeping Darling would be holding back Shanahan and another young kpf.
Yeo finds all manne rof ways to get injured.Had he gone to Adelaide we would have been criticised.
Mcgovern was still playing good football and you can never forsee an end of career to concussion on what looked a minor incident.
Sheed was again one of those injuries to a player who wasn't all that old.
There are so many stupid opinions out there that will criticise us for holding onto players or losing players.
In the end we have contributed to our downfall but we have lost players to injuries too early.
We have lost more players to concussions then anybody. Shepherd, Venables Edwards, Mcgovern
We also have been trying to rebuild in a compromised draft where you don't always have access to the best players.

By that same token, Ryan is still in contract, so if WC let him go they are in essence turfing him out.
They could have matched the offer to Allen and kept him, but they value the pick 2 more than him.

All clubs get to a point to where their list is aging and they need to address it. Hawthorn had to do it, Adelaide had to do it, Richmond did, North did and now WC is.
The only clubs that have managed to have finals success without rebuilding is Geelong and Collingwood. They have taken the route of topping up with already developed players like Cameron and Smith, while still also nailing the crappy picks they have had in the draft. This makes them unique.

The problem for WC and North still is that you cant just rebuild via the draft. You can say its compromised, but it has been so for a long while. Infact, its less compromised now as all clubs have to pay more for their academy and FS picks. It wasn't that long ago that clubs could add FSs to their list with a third round pick. There was no bidding system or point matching.
If the FS and academies are producing the best talent in the draft then the AFL has major problems with talent development. That means the quality of the non FS Victorian, Tasmanian, Western Australian and South Australian kids has fallen off the cliff.
So its either that, or the academies are producing extra talent in addition to what the existing states are doing. If that's the case then there's no need to complain as you still have access to the best kids from Vic, Tas, SA and WA.
I can go through the drafts and highlight every miss that North and WC have made, where if they took a different player than they did, their team would be far more talented than it is now.


All I have heard from North and WC is that the draft is compromised. There has been no mention of trades or FAs or delisted gems.
The draft is only a third of what you have to get right to improve. It cant happen with two good draft picks a year. You also need to supplement that with good trades, good late draft and rookie picks (think Freo and Treacy), getting some FAs and getting some cheap talented DFAs like Ben Keays or Nick Murray.
Why arnt WC and North talking about those areas when they are just as important?
Take Adelaide, if we dont get Dawson and Rankine, we arnt where we are now.

The reason that WC and North dont talk about those other areas is that they would then have to look at their shortcomings as a club. Why dont FAs want to come here? Why havent we got some bargin pick ups late in the draft or Rookie draft? Why havent we been able to get any quality players to nominate us in a trade?
The answers to those questions reflect on things the club is doing wrong.
Pointing to the compromised draft lets them try to blame the AFL rather than themselves.

 

[chaddy22]

Im surprised they didnt mention the Crows camp again.

They mention the Crows but conveniently don't mention the Kangaroos who have had endless first round picks and turfed out a lot of senior players and still are strugglers.

 

[chaddy22]

By that same token, Ryan is still in contract, so if WC let him go they are in essence turfing him out.
They could have matched the offer to Allen and kept him, but they value the pick 2 more than him.

All clubs get to a point to where their list is aging and they need to address it. Hawthorn had to do it, Adelaide had to do it, Richmond did, North did and now WC is.
The only clubs that have managed to have finals success without rebuilding is Geelong and Collingwood. They have taken the route of topping up with already developed players like Cameron and Smith, while still also nailing the crappy picks they have had in the draft. This makes them unique.

The problem for WC and North still is that you cant just rebuild via the draft. You can say its compromised, but it has been so for a long while. Infact, its less compromised now as all clubs have to pay more for their academy and FS picks. It wasn't that long ago that clubs could add FSs to their list with a third round pick. There was no bidding system or point matching.
If the FS and academies are producing the best talent in the draft then the AFL has major problems with talent development. That means the quality of the non FS Victorian, Tasmanian, Western Australian and South Australian kids has fallen off the cliff.
So its either that, or the academies are producing extra talent in addition to what the existing states are doing. If that's the case then there's no need to complain as you still have access to the best kids from Vic, Tas, SA and WA.
I can go through the drafts and highlight every miss that North and WC have made, where if they took a different player than they did, their team would be far more talented than it is now.


All I have heard from North and WC is that the draft is compromised. There has been no mention of trades or FAs or delisted gems.
The draft is only a third of what you have to get right to improve. It cant happen with two good draft picks a year. You also need to supplement that with good trades, good late draft and rookie picks (think Freo and Treacy), getting some FAs and getting some cheap talented DFAs like Ben Keays or Nick Murray.
Why arnt WC and North talking about those areas when they are just as important?
Take Adelaide, if we dont get Dawson and Rankine, we arnt where we are now.

The reason that WC and North dont talk about those other areas is that they would then have to look at their shortcomings as a club. Why dont FAs want to come here? Why havent we got some bargin pick ups late in the draft or Rookie draft? Why havent we been able to get any quality players to nominate us in a trade?
The answers to those questions reflect on things the club is doing wrong.
Pointing to the compromised draft lets them try to blame the AFL rather than themselves.

It is very hard for the Eagles to get free agents at the moment.
Many reasons but we just haven't had the picks and couldn't compete with the Dockers with West Aussies returning.
Hard to get players from Victoria who are free agents leaving northern states will and want to go to big Melbourne clubs and live in their home state.

 

[Scotland]

I think you are right. James Hird was going on about how WC shouldn't get any assistance as they won a flag in the last decade and are one of the most financial clubs in the AFL. They should have to spend more soft cap money to bring in more coaches etc, even if it means paying 50% of it as a soft cap tax.

The Victorian media really dont want to see either SA or WA clubs get the same assistance as Northern or Victorian clubs.

WC shouldn't get any assistance because we won the flag 7 years ago and are the richest club in the comp.

But also it's OK for a team to make the top 4 and potentially 3 GFs in a row over 4 years and add a top 5 pick to their list in 3 of those years.

 

[Scotland]

Moronic focus by Vic media on denying WC a priority pick whilst Brissie continue to build the foundations of years of dominance off AFL assistance, the suns up by 9 goals late in the 2nd over the Bombers with a production line of academy picks coming up and GWS looking good thank you very much.

Fiddling whilst ‘Rome’ starts to burn seems apt.

The AFL underestimates the inertia of fans losing interest in the competition. They are totally disconnected from the fans. Crowds are still good and it's a slow moving beast so it's not like the A-League or NBL where the highs and lows of popularity are pronounced. Once the tide starts to turn it won't be easy to fix quickly. Fans aren't all that interested in seeing manufactured dominance from NSW/Qld sides or teams at the bottom regularly losing by 50-100 points each week. As a neutral it's hard to get excited for Gold Coast vs Essendon even with the result determining the Suns finals spot.

 

[bzparkes]

I think you are right. James Hird was going on about how WC shouldn't get any assistance as they won a flag in the last decade and are one of the most financial clubs in the AFL. They should have to spend more soft cap money to bring in more coaches etc, even if it means paying 50% of it as a soft cap tax.

The Victorian media really dont want to see either SA or WA clubs get the same assistance as Northern or Victorian clubs.

The Irony being Essendon got a PP in 2006, just 6 years after only losing 1 game on the way to the most dominant premiership of the AFL era.

James Hird was even playing that year. Did he cry about Essendon getting a PP?

 

[bzparkes]

By that same token, Ryan is still in contract, so if WC let him go they are in essence turfing him out.

It's pretty simple - If the offer from Saints is worth more than keeping Ryan, then a trade gets done.

If not, WCE just keep him. They're certainly not pushing him out.

 

[Purple Suit]

By that same token, Ryan is still in contract, so if WC let him go they are in essence turfing him out.
They could have matched the offer to Allen and kept him, but they value the pick 2 more than him.

All clubs get to a point to where their list is aging and they need to address it. Hawthorn had to do it, Adelaide had to do it, Richmond did, North did and now WC is.
The only clubs that have managed to have finals success without rebuilding is Geelong and Collingwood. They have taken the route of topping up with already developed players like Cameron and Smith, while still also nailing the crappy picks they have had in the draft. This makes them unique.

The problem for WC and North still is that you cant just rebuild via the draft. You can say its compromised, but it has been so for a long while. Infact, its less compromised now as all clubs have to pay more for their academy and FS picks. It wasn't that long ago that clubs could add FSs to their list with a third round pick. There was no bidding system or point matching.
If the FS and academies are producing the best talent in the draft then the AFL has major problems with talent development. That means the quality of the non FS Victorian, Tasmanian, Western Australian and South Australian kids has fallen off the cliff.
So its either that, or the academies are producing extra talent in addition to what the existing states are doing. If that's the case then there's no need to complain as you still have access to the best kids from Vic, Tas, SA and WA.
I can go through the drafts and highlight every miss that North and WC have made, where if they took a different player than they did, their team would be far more talented than it is now.


All I have heard from North and WC is that the draft is compromised. There has been no mention of trades or FAs or delisted gems.
The draft is only a third of what you have to get right to improve. It cant happen with two good draft picks a year. You also need to supplement that with good trades, good late draft and rookie picks (think Freo and Treacy), getting some FAs and getting some cheap talented DFAs like Ben Keays or Nick Murray.
Why arnt WC and North talking about those areas when they are just as important?
Take Adelaide, if we dont get Dawson and Rankine, we arnt where we are now.

The reason that WC and North dont talk about those other areas is that they would then have to look at their shortcomings as a club. Why dont FAs want to come here? Why havent we got some bargin pick ups late in the draft or Rookie draft? Why havent we been able to get any quality players to nominate us in a trade?
The answers to those questions reflect on things the club is doing wrong.
Pointing to the compromised draft lets them try to blame the AFL rather than themselves.

Spot on. It's not just about picking the right player either, you need to be able to develop them. The teams that cannot drag themselves out of the bottom of the ladder generally have huge issues in this area. The Sydney's & Geelongs have it down pat so they hardly ever dip either.

The IP in the league appears to move a lot these days so if you are not looking to improve your development set-up then you are going backwards.

 

[Altum Volantes]

The Irony being Essendon got a PP in 2006, just 6 years after only losing 1 game on the way to the most dominant premiership of the AFL era.

James Hird was even playing that year. Did he cry about Essendon getting a PP?

That was under the old system which set a w/l record benchmark for receiving a priority pick. It only weaken the argument to refer to that - that system is clearly no longer in place.

WCE should be measured against those who have recieved assistance since it became a 'privately determined' criteria ala Brisbane, GC and North Melbourne.