List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion - Part 3

[Hubnester]

2025 List Management Discussion - Part 3

Now that our season is over, and news is starting to break - it's time for a fresh thread.

This thread is to discuss all things list management - trades, draft, free agency, delistings and more.
As we are now officially in our off-season, we'll be wanting to keep this thread more strictly on-topic than the previous iterations.
Be respectful. You are allowed to disagree with someone - but play the ball, not the man. Repeat offenders will have their posting rights revoked.

Thanks to Lore once again for this incredibly useful spreadsheet.

2025 KEY DATES
Free Agency Period: Friday, October 3rd - Friday, October 10th
Trade Period: Monday, October 6th - Wednesday, October 15th
AFL Draft: Wednesday, November 19th - Thursday, November 20th

See Also:
2025 Year in Review Rumours & Confirmed Movements 2025 Draft Discussion
​

 

[phantom13]

The key distinction is that he isn’t a free agent.

It’s a fair trade or end up at west coast

Not sure about that, Windy isnt Nas, i could see clubs baulking at him not wanting be there and him getting where he wants to go.

In any event its a rarity that occurs and if we lose a future second for him to walk to the PSD then meh whatever

fair enough,but dont think its worth the air time being given by some,every club/organisation can improve a bit in areas,but to suggest windy is insulted by a length of time offer that is highly sort after all over the afl due to circumstances(tassie),is just a load of crap

the cash offer,maybe

Sort of proving my point but sure.

 

[stavro#4]

Marc McGowan - The Age

Saints had presented him with a four-year offer, which is believed to be worth about $700,000 annually

His management sought assurances from the Saints that their interest in Silvagni would not impact Aleer, who averaged almost two intercept marks a game this year.

St Kilda are also keen to lure contracted midfielder-forward Sam Flanders from Gold Coast to bolster their on-ball rotation, while Hawk Cam Mackenzie – a Saints next-generation academy graduate – has also been linked to the club.

 

[stavro#4]

Not sure about that, Windy isnt Nas, i could see clubs baulking at him not wanting be there and him getting where he wants to go.

In any event its a rarity that occurs and if we lose a future second for him to walk to the PSD then meh whatever

Sort of proving my point but sure.

West coast was a side with interest according to gettable

 

[gringo2011]

I'm not sure if anyone has brought this up, but that 2013 offseason was not a top up. We brought in two relatively young players who we thought would be very good for a decade (Bruce and Longer), and Delaney was always a role player. Savage came as the steak knives in the McEvoy deal - we got Savage and picks 18 and 19-ish. It wasn't the top ups which were the problem that year, it was that our plan to hit the draft hard with three top 20 picks only yielded Billings, Acres and Dunstan.

Yeah, it was a reasonable plan but our drafting was so horrific under Trout that we managed to set the whole plan on fire. I don't think Richo was the right coach to guide young talent either. He was a extremely negative. His messaging seemed to be around why we had to work harder because we were no good. The football department was nearly no existent as well. It wasn't set up to succeed. No-one could even see what was wrong to identify it.

Lethlean's top up was the criminally stupid one. It was really a wallpaper over the cracks. The pool of young talent wasn't there to build off and it was only ever likely to be a short term sugar hit.

 

[jwikked]

would rather we paid Wilkie for the next 2 years to not play footy, than trade him to the dogs on significant unders.

0% chance the club lets him go for less than he’s worth

 

[CursingFijian]

Geezuz, just realised I got sullied on the Deli Lama, not once, but twice.

It's a tough gig on this board.

 

[John2010362340]

Ok mate.

You say okay, but this was the exact scenario that happend with Dunkley. He requested a trade to the Bombers, Dogs said no. In what world do you think we would trade Wilkie if you dont pay absolute overs for him.

 

[phantom13]

West coast was a side with interest according to gettable

Fair, I still couldn’t see them taking him if he makes it clear he doesn’t wanna be there

 

[BucketsandBanger]

He was absolutely elite off HB 12 months ago. He has a better bank of form than most of the guys we are chasing. If it allows you to rotate him and Nas on ball it is a great move. Sinclair also finishing up in a couple of years. He also has midfield potential and can play forward freeing up Hall. He was actually drafted as a medium forward with midfield potential.

Sam Flanders Draft Profile

DRAFT ANALYSIS: "An explosive mid-forward with clean hands and a high X-factor, Flanders just has to build his consistency throughout matches to take his game to the next level."

central.rookieme.com

Sam Flanders and Jack Sinclair AFL Stats Comparison

Sam Flanders and Jack Sinclair AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

Hope you're right, personally don't see the upside given where our list is at if its gonna cost a first.

 

[cleveland]

You say okay, but this was the exact scenario that happend with Dunkley. He requested a trade to the Bombers, Dogs said no. In what world do you think we would trade Wilkie if you dont pay absolute overs for him.

Never said we won't trade overs

 

[gringo2011]

I don't think there's any one model that can be ruled in or out since the player movement market was untethered.
The current influx bears little resemblance to the 2013 & 2019 periods because the club has drafted its arse off and has a very good group of youngsters to underpin the trading.
Moreover there is a good coaching setup and admin in place to support the push. 2 of the incoming are for nothing, whilst the other 2* are low cost.
This admin finally understood the need to put the foundations in place before having another crack which is to be applauded and topping up at this point was the publicised plan. Personally l don't see the picture of what's driving their pursuit of several of the incoming but there's no doubt it makes the squad better so the rest will pan out over the season. As for the salaries being reported it's of no consequence since we don't ever get accurate figures.

This is mostly true. We are topping hard before showing results so are paying huge contracts for good but not exceptional players. Adelaide and Hawks did the dame thing but off a better form base so got players excited to join them on less coin.

You only get one chance at these high priced ring ins because their massive contracts limit future moves. The foundation work is seriously better than last time and the drafting by Toce and now Dalrymple is AFL standard.

 

[BucketsandBanger]

This ARMOOO better be full of shit.....

 

[The Punter]

Butler looks cooked. I think the way Lyon sets up is as a press rather than individual chase downs. Perhaps that makes his best assets less of an asset too.

Every player inside forward 50 is expected to apply pressure and try to make that next kick a 50/50 and hopefully a turn over. Perceived pressure and lack of space are better than chasing one guy in a modern sport.

I make no specific defence of 2025 Butler. But the two years we've played finals since Ross 1.0, the two years we were best defensively in that time, were Butler's two best years. I strongly believe we need a player in the side doing exactly what Butler did at an elite level in those two years. If we can defend and win without it, then that would be a wonderful surprise.

Also, furthermore on Ryan v Butler: I don't know anyone is arguing Butler is the better player. He's just been better at the role we need played and Ryan doesn't come for free non-salary-capital wise like TDK and Silvagni do.

 

[stavro#4]

You say okay, but this was the exact scenario that happend with Dunkley. He requested a trade to the Bombers, Dogs said no. In what world do you think we would trade Wilkie if you dont pay absolute overs for him.

Dunkley to Essendon in 2020, Daniher to Sydney in 2019, Bobby Hill to Essendon in 2021

Papley to Carlton

 

[Train12]

If the Wilkie stuff is true, that I believe hurts the clubs culture. Here is hoping it’s not true!

 

[gringo2011]

Hope you're right, personally don't see the upside given where our list is at if its gonna cost a first.

If we lose Windhager we are a very thin midfield. Garcia looks the only kid that will likely pick up a lot more minutes inside. Windhager is able to cover multiple roles too. Something that Flanders does as well.

 

[Sully111]

Ive been worried about this whole strategy from the get go.

Have said time and time again that if you don't think the money your colleagues are being paid will affect the thinking of the average person, you're delusional.

I guess we'll see how it plays out.

But if we lose the likes of Cal And Windy because of the excessive money we've thrown the likes of TDK, we've failed.

If either Aleer or Jsos are on similar money to Wilkie we've lost the plot.

 

[stavro#4]

Fair, I still couldn’t see them taking him if he makes it clear he doesn’t wanna be there

See it as an extension on the NAS stuff

Decent player. For free.

 

[gringo2011]

If the Wilkie stuff is true, that I believe hurts the clubs culture. Here is hoping it’s not true!

There was a rumour that he was put-out even after he came out and hosed it done. Hopefully we hold him to his contract and repair the damage. He's one of our few A graders.

 

[BrutThough]

If the Wilkie stuff is true, that I believe hurts the clubs culture. Here is hoping it’s not true!

Wilkie isnt going anywhere.

 

[saxond74]

No ones doubting you. But simultaneously you just posted that Wilkie and his agent would take this to court and go through a messy divorce because he won’t be offered more money.

I’m doubting him, I think he’s FOS!!

 

[Pardon me]

I make no specific defence of 2025 Butler. But the two years we've played finals since Ross 1.0, the two years we were best defensively in that time, were Butler's two best years. I strongly believe we need a player in the side doing exactly what Butler did at an elite level in those two years. If we can defend and win without it, then that would be a wonderful surprise.

Also, furthermore on Ryan v Butler: I don't know anyone is arguing Butler is the better player. He's just been better at the role we need played and Ryan doesn't come for free non-salary-capital wise like TDK and Silvagni do.

I agree with this Punter.
However, I’m interested in your thoughts if the inclusion of Ryan generates more scoreboard pressure?
In this hypothetical do we still rate Butlers defensive game higher than Ryan’s offensive?

 

[The Punter]

Wilkie was much more effusive publicly about his desire to stay at the club compared to Nas pre-re-signing.

 

[Train12]

There was a rumour that he was put-out even after he came out and hosed it done. Hopefully we hold him to his contract and repair the damage. He's one of our few A graders.

Hopefully, I mean if he and his agent don’t care about a messy divorce - sounds like he is over the club.

Let’s just hope it isn’t true..

 

[PJays]

Lethlean's top up was the criminally stupid one. It was really a wallpaper over the cracks. The pool of young talent wasn't there to build off and it was only ever likely to be a short term sugar hit.

I think you have to look at each deal individually.

Dan Butler we got for a packet of chips, and he's played 106 games and been solid. Made an AA40. And if his body's right, might play 50 more. He's only 29.

The Howard/Ryder trade gets my tick. Complex pick swap but I was OK with it. Like Butler, Howard might have a couple more decent years in him.

Hill was a bad deal and I've been complaining about it for 6 years. I probably should stop... the missed opportunity to draft Pickett, Bergman etc was a disaster in hindsight.

Jones is the closest to 50/50.

A mixed bag really.