List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion - Part 3

[Hubnester]

2025 List Management Discussion - Part 3

Now that our season is over, and news is starting to break - it's time for a fresh thread.

This thread is to discuss all things list management - trades, draft, free agency, delistings and more.
As we are now officially in our off-season, we'll be wanting to keep this thread more strictly on-topic than the previous iterations.
Be respectful. You are allowed to disagree with someone - but play the ball, not the man. Repeat offenders will have their posting rights revoked.

Thanks to Lore once again for this incredibly useful spreadsheet.

2025 KEY DATES
Free Agency Period: Friday, October 3rd - Friday, October 10th
Trade Period: Monday, October 6th - Wednesday, October 15th
AFL Draft: Wednesday, November 19th - Thursday, November 20th

See Also:
2025 Year in Review Rumours & Confirmed Movements 2025 Draft Discussion
​

 

[Minga]

Gabelich just said Wilkie is still in play for the Dogs. Willing to go above the $1.5 million already offered. It could be that we lose Wilkie and the two end up fortunate additions.

Wilkie ain't going unless we are getting something we deem better in return.

 

[SainterinSydney]

Have heard Dan butler could be headed to the suns, take it with a grain of salt but the bloke who told me was bang on about the Flanders info so

If he is part of the Flander's deal, I will do cartwheels down the street

 

[phantom13]

Wilkie ain't going unless we are getting something we deem better in return.

Yeh as much im advocating for letting Roma walk if he wants, Wilkie will cost Darcy and Ed Richards plus access to Bonts progenany.

 

[SainterinSydney]

Wilkie ain't going unless we are getting something we deem better in return.

I think we will end up just renegotiating the deal with Wilkie.

Regardless, no way he leaves.

 

[FQFjt]

It would be negligent to not include the list manager in any list management decision.

We also keep hearing about the saints mafia being involved in this shit, ruthlessness professionalism is about using every trick and tactic in the book to explot advantages not being totally scupulous in every instance.

Id be more disappointed if SOS had nothing to do with it at all but alas, there is no way that happened.

No doubt the club would have used whatever leverage it had to influence JSOS's decision and to win him over. That is different to the decision-making, being the decision to offer him a contract and on what terms. There ain't no way SOS could have been involved in that - for one, it would completely prejudice the club's ability to negotiate with his manager, if SOS was involved. "Hey son, tell your manager to ask for another $50k, I can tell you we have some room to move in the cap". There is ruthless, and there is moronic.

 

[stavro#4]

Its not a compelling argument to me when you have 4500 caveats on why its was super succesful except when it wasnt. Im not taking a shot at you here i just think youre on your line of it works and i dont agree.

You cant but you can see what clubs have done for the past 20 years. Personally i dont think one extra on the bench will mean another ruckman especially when the other rule is going to mean less ruck contests.

Which caveats have I given you?

That Essendon game, scores were level 13 minutes into the third quarter. We had kicked 5 in a row. First 2 goal scorers in the third were Ryder and Marshall.

Ryder then got injured and We fell away - which was a theme late in that season. It was a game we shouldn’t have lost.

Freo we led at half time. It was the game with the really controversial Butler run down tackle as we had all the momentum and they got a free kick and 50 and goal on the 3/4 time siren.

Everything is pretty factual. You don’t agree and that’s fine. But you are in the minority in terms of how you saw their success and how you value Marshall right now.

 

[billings2paddy]

Yep agree with this. Geelong's first, which will be well into the 20's, is nowhere near enough for ROMA.

first and second

 

[PJays]

Will disagree with you that being competitive after 3 to 4 years is having a high expectation it should be the expectation and Tasmania can do that.

Tasmania can absolutely do that.

A major difference between Tasmania vs GWS and Gold Coast is Tasmania's culture.

This is intangible but seeps through in the underdog belief, and the sheer excitement of the fans.

You need the right guy to harness and develop this (like Scott Roth with the JJ's) but the foundation is already there, in a way it simply wasn't on the Gold Coast and GWS.

JJ's has been an incredible sporting success story on and off the field.

Tassie Devils will have thousands of rusted-on, passionate supporters from day 1, keen to stick it to the mainland. They aren't some fake franchise attracting those with a passing interest. It's a state with rich footy history.

With all the list, cap and draft concessions, and that Tassie culture behind them, fair chance they're in finals by year 4.

 

[thekizzler]

WTF is Barrass? He is exactly that they recruited to play on the main key forwards.

Tom Barrass is 194cm - which once again proves the height argument for defenders that people use is ridiculous.

It looks like we are pretty well covered for defensive options next season - especially when someone who can do a job like Caminiti is likely to be squeezed out if everyone is fit.

 

[phantom13]

Which caveats have I given you?

That Essendon game, scores were level 13 minutes into the third quarter. We had kicked 5 in a row. First 2 goal scorers in the third were Ryder and Marshall.

Ryder then got injured and We fell away - which was a theme late in that season. It was a game we shouldn’t have lost.

Freo we led at half time. It was the game with the really controversial Butler run down tackle as we had all the momentum and they got a free kick and 50 and goal on the 3/4 time siren.

Everything is pretty factual. You don’t agree and that’s fine. But you are in the minority in terms of how you saw their success and how you value Marshall right now.

Theres been plenty, your argument essentially amounts to when it worked it worked but they didnt get to play together too often.

Factually no other team is playing two rucks, theres a reason for that and factually our success amounted to one finals win when they were both on our list. I hope were aiming a bit higher.

 

[Joffaboy]

Yeh as much im advocating for letting Roma walk if he wants, Wilkie will cost Darcy and Ed Richards plus access to Bonts progenany.

As you right pointed out, a good club doesn't trade good contracted players.

 

[phantom13]

No doubt the club would have used whatever leverage it had to influence JSOS's decision and to win him over. That is different to the decision-making, being the decision to offer him a contract and on what terms. There ain't no way SOS could have been involved in that - for one, it would completely prejudice the club's ability to negotiate with his manager, if SOS was involved. "Hey son, tell your manager to ask for another $50k, I can tell you we have some room to move in the cap". There is ruthless, and there is moronic.

Thats fine but i dont think the original comment was "SOS didnt sign the contract" it was "SOS had nothing to do with it at all".

 

[stavro#4]

Theres been plenty, your argument essentially amounts to when it worked it worked but they didnt get to play together too often.

Factually no other team is playing two rucks, theres a reason for that and factually our success amounted to one finals win when they were both on our list. I hope were aiming a bit higher.

That’s still fact that it was successful when they played together. It’s a fact they had injuries and Ryders body failed

We are talking about 2026. What clubs are doing in 2025 are irrelevant. In saying that We also used 2 rucks in games this year. So did Freo.

The fact the subs now going to be just a flat 5 man bench means we can play 2 genuine rucks with little impact to our speed or ground game.

 

[sauce_head]

We won over 60% of the games Roma and Ryder played together. The issue was Roma had plantar fasciitis in 2021 and Ryders body was falling apart in 21/22 which limited the amount of games we got.

The final you are referring to:
Ryder 9 disposals 2 goals 20 hitouts.
Marshall 11 disposals 10 hitouts 2 DIRECT GOAL ASSISTS

Remember these were also shortened games.

Ryder tore his hammy in the final minute of the game. Massive loss against a Richmond side we beat earlier in the season + the others who all missed the semi.

Long got suspended on a nothing bump that was less than what Cotchin and Lunch did to our players on the game, unpunished.

 

[thekizzler]

His contract is a technicality?

Ahhh no, its definitely not.

I obviously think if he asks to go he will and i generally think thats the rule but we can hold him to his contract if we want, theres no way out of that. The AFL cant intervene here because there is nothing to intervene with.

I dont agree at all. I dont really see why teams would suddenly want to play another ruck when there will be less ruck contests (even without that rule i doubt it happens).

If the argument is keep him as a backup then thats fine but id rather not plus Dodson looked absolutely capable as a backup if TDK needs a rest for a couple of games.

How many less ruck contests are you anticipating per game?

 

[phantom13]

As you right pointed out, a good club doesn't trade good contracted players.

Unless it benefits the club.

 

[thekizzler]

Barrass would also be 110kgs and is a bull, we have no one like that.

Both will get exposed playing on the big key forwards - JSOS was the 3rd tall at Carlton both forward and in defence.

There is 0% chance that Barrass is 110kg

His last official weight reading before clubs/AFL stopped listing weights was 96kg.

He hasn't bulked up since he played at West Coast.

 

[PJays]

Factually no other team is playing two rucks,

Fort and Mcinerney played a bunch of games together for Brisbane

Blicavs and Stanley

Jackson and Darcy

Heath and Dodson played with Marshall in a few games

It's a minority but it's happening. And as St Kilda showed in 2020-2022, when it works well it can be effective.

 

[phantom13]

That’s still fact that it was successful when they played together. It’s a fact they had injuries and Ryders body failed

We are talking about 2026. What clubs are doing in 2025 are irrelevant. In saying that We also used 2 rucks in games this year. So did Freo.

The fact the subs now going to be just a flat 5 man bench means we can play 2 genuine rucks with little impact to our speed or ground game.

Your measure of success as one won final is debateable but fair enough.

You wanna completely ignore current facts because theres one more on the bench in 26 (also not youre ignoring the last touch rule in this).

We used two rucks because we had no key forward, if your argument is Roma as backup for King its a different discussion (one ive made my thoughts clear on).

Freo has Jackson, perhaps TDK is Jackson but I doubt it, hes the exception to the rule.

How many less ruck contests are you anticipating per game?

No idea, if its the same number as this year was on average then given teams arent playing two rucks now the argument remains. If its one less it only strengthens the argument.

The only way a rule change entices teams to play two rucks is if there are more ruck contests. The last touch rule in any capacity wont do that.

You can argue 5 on the bench adds the desire for a ruck and i would disagree but thats pure speculation both ways.

 

[AFaiL]

We won over 60% of the games Roma and Ryder played together. The issue was Roma had plantar fasciitis in 2021 and Ryders body was falling apart in 21/22 which limited the amount of games we got.

The final you are referring to:
Ryder 9 disposals 2 goals 20 hitouts.
Marshall 11 disposals 10 hitouts 2 DIRECT GOAL ASSISTS

Remember these were also shortened games.

Ryder tore his hammy in the final minute of the game. Massive loss against a Richmond side we beat earlier in the season + the others who all missed the semi.

Sigh, 2020 was a genuine chance for us to pinch a flag considering the weird season. That ryder injury ended our hopes

 

[Dr Spaceman]

If he is part of the Flander's deal, I will do cartwheels down the street

View attachment 2421018

 

[phantom13]

Fort and Mcinerney played a bunch of games together for Brisbane

Blicavs and Stanley

Jackson and Darcy

Heath and Dodson played with Marshall in a few games

It's a minority but it's happening. And as St Kilda showed in 2020-2022, when it works well it can be effective.

Fort isnt a ruckman, im advocating for Keeler as a second ruck because hes a forward first.

Blicavs also isnt a ruckman same as above

Jackson is the exception, if TDK is Jackson then fair enough, i dont think he is.

Heath, Dodson and Marshall played 1 im pretty sure as all three and we only played two because we didnt have King.

 

[SainterinSydney]

Look, everyone, Ameet Bains has arrived to offer us draft picks for Wilkie

 

[nikkig98]

Just regarding Flanders, this is a great resource that illustrates the role he's being played in throughout the 2025 season (much easier to use than the shitty telstra heatmaps on the afl app), if anyone wants to get an idea of his change in role.

Player Maps

Understand where players are getting the ball and kicking goals from. Data is available from the 2023 season onwards.

dfsaustralia.com

I can't be arsed putting the screenshots of all the games in here, but this is just as an example (its against the saints so i thought i'd highlight that one) of the half-forward role he's been put in, where they already have players such as bailey humphrey, ben long

22

Ben Long

Age

28

Ht

186cm

Wt

81kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.9

3star

K

6.2

2star

HB

4.7

3star

M

3.3

3star

T

2.7

4star

G

0.7

4star

D

12.8

3star

K

6.7

3star

HB

6.2

4star

M

3.3

3star

T

2.3

3star

G

0.0

1star

D

13.4

4star

K

6.8

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

3.2

4star

T

3.2

5star

G

0.6

3star

already doing majority of the grunt work from. Its a stark change from his 2024.

 

[kick it lace out]

Tom Barrass is 194cm - which once again proves the height argument for defenders that people use is ridiculous.

It looks like we are pretty well covered for defensive options next season - especially when someone who can do a job like Caminiti is likely to be squeezed out if everyone is fit.

He's 197cm