Rumour Bluemour Discussion XXXIX

[swuzzlebubble]

His value is probably around Pick 10-15 now IMO

Put him in this year's draft to test that out

 

[Foucault1989]

I'd like to see us have a serious crack at Cam McKenzie from Hawthorn. On the outer of the best 22, great ball user and natural footballer. Offer him overs compared to Hawthorn. Exactly the type we need.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Put him in this year's draft to test that out

This year's draft ... he'd go 1 in this year's draft. The top end is uninspiring. Just saying that KPFs sitting in the sheds a lot don't exactly appreciate in value. You're right though, in the sense that he has had two years of development and 30 games experience. We still have to look at him on potential, not actual results so far.

 

[DZ4]

Put him in this year's draft to test that out

Goes at 1.

 

[choo]

Don’t buy that for a second. McClure is an assistant coach on a team coached by Paul Connors. Reckon he’s being fed info by him to shape the public narrative

Both went to Xavier But years apart.
McClure would have been one of those kids stuffed in the rubbish bin

 

[Faz 2000]

I don’t think we want to trade Charlie at all, but if he’s going to continue to kick up a fuss and be a distraction there’s a significant chance to cash in. In our position every player should have a price especially one that isn’t buying in.

I see Jed Walter as a Charlie clone, 8 years younger. Yes he is unproven but we’d shake them down for another pick/s because of that. If we don’t see ourselves as a flag threat in 2026 (which I don’t) it should be a serious consideration. He’s a top tier rolled gold talent, clubs spend decades without getting near a KPF as talented as him. We actually do very well in developing them which would make me confident.

Consolidate next year, pump games into Smith, FRP, Dean, Moir, Carroll, Cowan, Lord and HOK, add Walker, then attack free agency with our new found cap space. Weitering, McKay, Walsh still under 30, I think if we play it right we’d be an attractive proposition.

Charlie is brilliant but we’ve had him for 10 years and we haven’t won squat. There’s a way we can win here imo.

Agree. If we trade Charlie and we DON’T get a prospect like Walter back I’ll be furious. And it’s Walter+…. A first, or Flanders, or whatever. Then we’re in business (exact details to be hammered out).

 

[Matty411]

I'd like to see us have a serious crack at Cam McKenzie from Hawthorn. On the outer of the best 22, great ball user and natural footballer. Offer him overs compared to Hawthorn. Exactly the type we need.

Would love but - despite being shifted in and out - Sam Mitchell loves the kid.

 

[skadoosh]

Waiting for skadoosh to post this 'Yes' up on the No Discussion rumours thread.

I thought why not and went for it. Post removed in 5 seconds flat

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I'd like to see us have a serious crack at Cam McKenzie from Hawthorn. On the outer of the best 22, great ball user and natural footballer. Offer him overs compared to Hawthorn. Exactly the type we need.

Is he the type we need though? Best on the inside, stoppage craft etc. Seems like a Cerra type to me. Two way runner like Walsh too. It would cost us something. We need some more pace and line breaking ability. Maybe a genuine forward/midfielder.

 

[Blue__Balls]

You lose draft pick value as soon as you drive off the lot. KPPs take time to get going so they are all potential for about 4 seasons. His value is probably around Pick 10-15 now IMO. Mind you, with Charlie coming off an injury-plagued low performance season ... we have to get clubs to see his value based off his best form, while they have to get us to see their young players value based on potential. If we don't rate Walter on potential, then it's fair for others to rate Curnow based on 2025.

The other factor is the needs of the clubs.

GC just made finals, and won their first one. They'll get another chance to see how they stack up against the best in September, and over the next few weeks will get a clearer idea of what they need to take the next step and push for a GF appearance and potential flag.

If they think they're close (and I think they are), the opportunity to pick up a dual Coleman-medallist in his late 20s (aka best years) doesn't come up often. If Charlie wants them, and they think he can be the difference, then Charlie is worth a whole lot more to them than a 20yo KPF who may or may not even be in their best 22 yet.

Qustion for them will be "How much of your future do you mortgage to potentially win a flag in the next year or two?"

 

[DZ4]

Agree. If we trade Charlie and we DON’T get a prospect like Walter back I’ll be furious. And it’s Walter+…. A first, or Flanders, or whatever. Then we’re in business (exact details to be hammered out).

I like the idea of getting WCE involved if they’re willing to move on their compo. 2 + Walter + Chesser. Add our compo pick/s or future picks to make something work.

That is a haul that can be sold to the members AND really sets us up for the medium-long term if the short term has been ruled out.

 

[Red Bull]

thats the million dollar question potential over reality

Reality is, the list in its current state has run its race.
Reality is, Curnow is 29yo in February, has dodgy knees and has indicated he’d prefer to play elsewhere.
Reality is, he might have enough miles left on the clock to win a premiership with GC but probably unlikely with Carlton.
Reality is, the time might indeed be right to cash him in and set a new course.

The new mantra in the GW era is “Carlton first”
If Walter wants Carlton and buys into the mantra, he’d be a pretty significant building block going forward …

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

The other factor is the needs of the clubs.

GC just made finals, and won their first one. They'll get another chance to see how they stack up against the best in September, and over the next few weeks will get a clearer idea of what they need to take the next step and push for a GF appearance and potential flag.

If they think they're close (and I think they are), the opportunity to pick up a dual Coleman-medallist in his late 20s (aka best years) doesn't come up often. If Charlie wants them, and they think he can be the difference, then Charlie is worth a whole lot more to them than a 20yo KPF who may or may not even be in their best 22 yet.

Qustion for them will be "How much of your future do you mortgage to potentially win a flag in the next year or two?"

I have no doubt that Charlie has the better attributes and is probably a better footballer than Walter. Charlie's 2nd season stats shit all over Walter's second season stats. His running and athleticism just lend themselves to more involvement in games. It's really look at 5 seasons of Charlie vs 12 seasons of Walter. Their time is now, but I still hold some belief that our time could be now, but we need far more things to go right than they do.

 

[Foucault1989]

Is he the type we need though? Best on the inside, stoppage craft etc. Seems like a Cerra type to me. Two way runner like Walsh too. It would cost us something. We need some more pace and line breaking ability. Maybe a genuine forward/midfielder.

He is an absolute elite kick. Do we have many of those types?

 

[BlueTongue]

A few points.

Walter is a 20yo KPF, his season stats for 2025 aren't super relevant. We'd be expecting his best footy to be 4-5 years away and hopefully last 5-8 years from that point on. So losing Charlie and getting Walter would indicate the club think we're at least a few years off being a genuine contender, and believe we're better served with a young KPF to develop alongside Harry rather than playing two KPFs who have probably both nudged past their zenith. From a list profile standpoint, we're probably better off staggering our KPF ages rather than having an all eggs in one basket setup where both could retire within 12 months of eachother, having held out any developing talls that were behind them.

We would want to have one almighty accurate crystal ball to predict his form in a few years time, so if we are going to do that, why wouldn't we go to the draft and select our own talent ?

Also, desperately need a KPD not another KPF and I'm stuffed if i know why our club doesn't consider this a priority.

Weiters is going to blow a gasket if we don't get him some help this year.

And if Walter was involved in a Charlie trade, it wouldn't be a straight swap, we'd want more. Charlie for GC is a massive boost right in their opening finals window. He could legitimately be the difference between making up the numbers and clinching a flag. As such, if they want him then they should be moving heaven and earth, not haggling.

Yep agreed, we'd want a lot more than an unproven forward.

 

[4thchicken]

If Charlie goes (say GC -> Walter + future 1st), perhaps we would consider floating Cripps to Freo? (Docherty pact done, club clearly further away from flag).

 

[BlueTongue]

Marshall is a better ruckman than TDK,streets ahead.

I'd say he's more consistent but TDK has a lot higher ceiling

 

[Wickzki]

Great to see Nick Haynes

26

Nick Haynes

Age

33

Ht

192cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.4

4star

K

11.4

4star

HB

4.9

4star

M

6.2

5star

T

1.6

4star

MG

326.8

4star

D

17.4

4star

K

13.9

5star

HB

3.5

2star

M

8.0

5star

T

1.5

2star

MG

326.8

5star

D

7.8

2star

K

4.4

2star

HB

3.4

3star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.2

4star

put pen to paper

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

He is an absolute elite kick. Do we have many of those types?

Kicking was supposed to be one of Cerra's strengths in his draft year. It hasn't translated very well in our side, under our game plan. I'm wary of spending for another inside footballer unless we are getting rid of one.

 

[Wickzki]

Kicking was supposed to be one of Cerra's strengths in his draft year. It hasn't translated very well in our side, under our game plan. I'm wary of spending for another inside footballer unless we are getting rid of one.

Thought Cez was a good to great kick for us until the continued hamstring injuries. He hasn't been the same since

 

[BlueTongue]

I don’t think we want to trade Charlie at all, but if he’s going to continue to kick up a fuss and be a distraction there’s a significant chance to cash in. In our position every player should have a price especially one that isn’t buying in.

I see Jed Walter as a Charlie clone, 8 years younger. Yes he is unproven but we’d shake them down for another pick/s because of that. If we don’t see ourselves as a flag threat in 2026 (which I don’t) it should be a serious consideration. He’s a top tier rolled gold talent, clubs spend decades without getting near a KPF as talented as him. We actually do very well in developing them which would make me confident.

Consolidate next year, pump games into Smith, FRP, Dean, Moir, Carroll, Cowan, Lord and HOK, add Walker, then attack free agency with our new found cap space. Weitering, McKay, Walsh still under 30, I think if we play it right we’d be an attractive proposition.

Charlie is brilliant but we’ve had him for 10 years and we haven’t won squat. There’s a way we can win here imo.

I'll reserve judgement on him until after I've seen his finals output.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Great to see Nick Haynes put pen to paper

LOL, yes it is. Blue Abroad put out a video with a title 'this defender just signed a one year deal with Carlton', showing the front of Gov and the back of Haynes. I immediately thought we had signed Gov for a year. No brainer for Haynes who definitely earned another year. He deserves to be top 5 in our B&F.

 

[Red_man2008]

I like Motlop. Thought he was going to jump a level after his fantastic end to '23. Obviously injuries got him but his development has stagnated this year. Not sure what is missing.

Finished the year on a massive high. Started looking really comfortable around the ball. Second highest rated Carlton player the last 2-3 weeks.

 

[ITCHY EYEBALLS]

Both went to Xavier But years apart.
McClure would have been one of those kids stuffed in the rubbish bin

Add to that an Atomic Wedgie and Royal Flush!

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

We would want to have one almighty accurate crystal ball to predict his form in a few years time, so if we are going to do that, why wouldn't we go to the draft and select our own talent ?

Walter was pick 3, and we don't have a pick that high as yet, and there is only a ruck/forward ranked at 2 and then nobody else for a while. Walter has 30 games and a lot of physical development under his belt.

Also, desperately need a KPD not another KPF and I'm stuffed if i know why our club doesn't consider this a priority.ho

We do need a bridging KPD for sure, but we also need a KPF.

Weitering, Young and first year Dean, HOF out for the year, and a third tall in Haynes
McKay, third tall in Kemp, ruck/forward in O'Keeffe and nothing else if Charlie goes, unless we get Walter.

I personally think we need something other than Khamis, whether he is back or forward.