Strategy Trade and List Management Thread Part 7 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[Northernsoul74]

Hopefully big Hugh Bond nominates us

It was reported he’s close to re-signing.

 

[dergert]

Connor Budarick

35

Connor Budarick

Age

24

Ht

175cm

Wt

75kg

Pos.

D/M

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.6

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

3.9

3star

M

2.9

3star

T

1.5

3star

MG

171.3

3star

D

10.6

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

3.9

3star

M

2.9

3star

T

1.5

2star

MG

171.3

3star

D

10.6

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

3.8

3star

M

2.6

3star

T

2.0

4star

MG

153.0

3star

's brother signed with a local club in Melbourne

 

[dogwatch]

Simple question. After watching the finals so far you need tough nuts in defence, midfield and attack. Do we have enough of them i would say not. Libba, Bont, Westy, Kennedy, Darcy and maybe Harmes and that would be it. Libba one season left probably and Harmes a fringe player.

Here's what I posted in the Off Season Changes thread about 3 weeks ago.
Like a goldfish in a bowl nothing much has changed.

Forget the defensive structure or the individual defenders. Or bottom six whipping boys and the like. Also forget the head coach because that’s not changing for two years no matter how much we complain about his matchday shortcomings.

What we need more than anything else is a side that can win finals And the mid-season matches that count, like playing against other contenders.

We need hard arsed players who play tough, physical, unforgiving football and are prepared to get their hands dirty. I don’t care if they are dickheads as long as they are committed competitive players with a reasonable set of skills.

We need players who can deal with pressure games and onfield pressure acts. Who are unceasing in applying pressure themselves. Who dish out physical (but mostly fair) treatment. Mentally tough too.

What happens if you don’t have enough of these? You become flat track bullies. A side that can’t win in September.

Exhibit A: Rhylee West

Others who are hard arsed or at least full on competitors:

Bont
Kennedy
Darcy
Baker
Croft
Weightman
Richards
Libba
Harmes
Freijah
A Jones
Naughton
Williams
Cleary
Garcia
Smith
and probably Dale and Lobb

(A few only just scrape onto that list.)

That’s barely 18 players. I’m giving a free pass at this stage to about half a dozen first year players as it’s mostly too early to tell. Hynes is the most likely of them and Sellwood has shown a bit.

Others like Dolan, Walker and Jaques have shown skill but haven’t yet convinced me they’ll be tough enough. But they might. They have time and obvious talent.

That leaves a lot of players who are either close to the end of their careers (L Jones, Treloar, Scott, JJ) so it’s neither here nor there whether they play another season. Or players who just aren’t tough enough. VDM is a special case - he is physical enough and in the opposition’s face but sadly he just hasn’t got the footy skills.

That still leaves a dozen or so players who have played senior footy. In some cases a LOT of senior footy. I won’t list them by name but you can easily figure out who I’m talking about. I’ll concede some could be fringe acceptable (eg Bramble, Gallagher).

We can’t get rid of them all in a single off season anyway and we may end up with good reason to keep 2-3 of them. But we need to start transitioning away from that type. And not get in any more recycled players unless they have the same sort of attack-ball, attack-the-game attitude that Baker has.

Our drafting team has to put hard arsedness right up near the top of their selection criteria.

Until we shift the balance we’re in for a lot of disappointment.

And also ridicule. A bit like the notorious “handbag pussycats” of Geelong before Chris Scott took over about 20 years ago.

 

[Testekill]

That’s why I like Sellwood.

Agressive and hard. I see a big season for him next year if he avoids injury

 

[iambrilliant]

Agressive and hard. I see a big season for him next year if he avoids injury

Needs to take jjs spot and play round 1

 

[Southern 8]

I know everyone says we are chasing Budarick as a small defender which is much needed but so is upgrading on VDM and McNeil.
Could that be what Dogs have planned

 

[Bald Headed Flog]

I know everyone says we are chasing Budarick as a small defender which is much needed but so is upgrading on VDM and McNeil.
Could that be what Dogs have planned

We’ve already got their replacements between Weightman, Dolan and Arty. Won’t be surprised if all 3 are in the round 1 side next year

 

[dogsuperfan]

I know everyone says we are chasing Budarick as a small defender which is much needed but so is upgrading on VDM and McNeil.
Could that be what Dogs have planned

Improvement from Arty, Weightmen returning, Dolan improving and hopefully drafting dovastan should solve that problem.

 

[Mofra]

We’ve already got their replacements between Weightman, Dolan and Arty. Won’t be surprised if all 3 are in the round 1 side next year

Ditto. VDM played since good footy at the start of the year so may get a gig, but guys like Dolan, Arty and Hynes will be knocking the door down after a pre-season

 

[Snarls Barkley]

Hawks have been building this list for awhile since we knocked them out of finals in 2016 really. Yes they added their final pieces through trading in Barrass along with a couple of others, but most of their list comes from a proper rebuild. We haven’t finished as low to pick up that level of talent through the draft.

If we don’t replenish our list through trading in good defenders and an experienced mid, we will be in a rebuild ourselves.

Their top 10 draft picks have been

2024 - first pick was at 35
2023 - Watson (pick 5)
2022 - Mackenzie (pick 7)
2021 - Ward (pick 7)
2020 - Grainger-Barras (pick 6)
2019 - first pick was at 13
2018 - first pick was at 52
2017 - first pick was at 45

 

[dogwatch]

We’ve already got their replacements between Weightman, Dolan and Arty. Won’t be surprised if all 3 are in the round 1 side next year

Dolan needs to develop physically, and hopefully a full pre-season or two will help in that regard.

He is far more skilled with the ball than VDM and McNeil but in his short career averages less than half the tackles that McNeil does (1.13 compared to about 2.4). Apart from Dolan they all average from 2.0 to 2.5 tackles/game. The benchmark for our small forwards needs to be 3.0 per game. West averages 3.17.

I haven't looked up pressure acts but I'd guess they would follow the same pattern.

 

[BigFloppa]

WE LOST THE HAWKS GAME BECAUSE THEY HAVE A BETTER SYSTEM AND CULTURE. Until we change that culture as a club and supporters of accepting mediocrity of re-signing a failing coach who has been unable to get us into the top four in all his tenure, is a sign of failure and mediocrity. Yes, we won one gf in 50 odd years, but we need MOOORRREEE!!! Two grand finals in our history is not good enough!!!

How many top four finishes have the Hawks had since 2016?

 

[Foxman98]

How many top four finishes have the Hawks had since 2016?

1 I believe

 

[Dogs Rule]

Hawks have been building this list for awhile since we knocked them out of finals in 2016 really. Yes they added their final pieces through trading in Barrass along with a couple of others, but most of their list comes from a proper rebuild. We haven’t finished as low to pick up that level of talent through the draft.

If we don’t replenish our list through trading in good defenders and an experienced mid, we will be in a rebuild ourselves.

I would argue the opposite. Look at how many players from other clubs were in the Hawthorn side last night. Amon, Impey, Gunston, Meek, Battle, Barrass, Scrimshaw, Chol, D'Ambrosio, Ginnivan.

That's almost half their side.

They identify their needs, target players that can fill that need and they just get them. We could learn from that. Got to be aggressive to get better not just sit back and that's why the Wilkie shot across the bow was refreshing even if it doesn't land.

 

[Foxman98]

I would argue the opposite. Look at how many players from other clubs were in the Hawthorn side last night. Amon, Impey, Gunston, Meek, Battle, Barrass, Scrimshaw, Chol, D'Ambrosio, Ginnivan.

That's almost half their side.

They identify their needs, target players that can fill that need and they just get them. We could learn from that. Got to be aggressive to get better not just sit back and that's why the Wilkie shot across the bow was refreshing even if it doesn't land.

Quite a few were scrap heap though Chol 3rd club Mass mid season not getting a game Ginnivan troubled star (said we needed him was laughed at) Gunston couldn’t get a game with his failed Brisbane move Scrimshaw struggling at GC Meek stuck behind 2 better rucks

 

[Snarls Barkley]

Dolan needs to develop physically, and hopefully a full pre-season or two will help in that regard.

He is far more skilled with the ball than VDM and McNeil but in his short career averages less than half the tackles that McNeil does (1.13 compared to about 2.4). Apart from Dolan they all average from 2.0 to 2.5 tackles/game. The benchmark for our small forwards needs to be 3.0 per game. West averages 3.17.

I haven't looked up pressure acts but I'd guess they would follow the same pattern.

Pressure acts and tackles from our small forwards compared to the confirmed preliminary finalists

 

[Mhiggo]

We’ve already got their replacements between Weightman, Dolan and Arty. Won’t be surprised if all 3 are in the round 1 side next year

Reckon either would be worth a shot as a small defender or tagger? VDM is quick, a natural pest and has a massive tank so could see him being successful as a tagger.

 

[Snarls Barkley]

Reckon either would be worth a shot as a small defender or tagger? VDM is quick, a natural pest and has a massive tank so could see him being successful as a tagger.

I don’t think Vandermeer’s body could allow him to do it. Regularly has low TOG compared to the rest of the team (even taking out the games he is subbed out), think they give him shorter stints as a hamstring awareness thing. And to be fair, it’s probably working. Has been available nearly every week in the last two years after missing a lot of time with injury prior to that

 

[dogwatch]

Pressure acts and tackles from our small forwards compared to the confirmed preliminary finalists

View attachment 2425044

View attachment 2425045

Thanks for posting. Pretty much confirms what I was saying (I presume your figures are this year only - mine were a quick dabble into career stats). Interesting that McNeil and VDM averaged below their career average for tackles this year, although that might be partly because of games played as a sub. Same applies to Dolan who had quite a few games as sub. It tends to pull down the game averages.

Dolan averaged better at pressure acts than tackles. That's actually a good thing the way I see it because it indicates intent. My guess is that he rates lower in tackles mainly because he's not robust enough yet. If I'm correct that average should improve in 2026.

Hmmm ... that Lachie Sullivan bloke rates OK at this stuff. Like 50% better than McNeil or VDM.
If only we'd had a chance to recruit him!

 

[Snarls Barkley]

Thanks for posting. Pretty much confirms what I was saying (I presume your figures are this year only - mine were a quick dabble into career stats). Interesting that McNeil and VDM averaged below their career average for tackles this year, although that might be partly because of games played as a sub. Same applies to Dolan who had quite a few games as sub. It tends to pull down the game averages.

Dolan averaged better at pressure acts than tackles. That's actually a good thing the way I see it because it indicates intent. My guess is that he rates lower in tackles mainly because he's not robust enough yet. If I'm correct that average should improve in 2026.

Hmmm ... that Lachie Sullivan bloke rates OK at this stuff. Like 50% better than McNeil or VDM.
If only we'd had a chance to recruit him!

Yes figures for this year only, but wasn't meant to be a post disputing figures

More of a support to your argument of what the benchmark should be. All the good teams small forwards have either 15 pressure acts and/or 3 tackles a game. We have West who is in that range, Weightman is generally in that range too. Most of the guys on that list offer a hell of a lot offensively as well but I'm not too fussed about that (think we have more than enough offensive firepower), I would hope our role players could get at least up to West's defensive numbers. Our best offensive smalls probably shouldn't be clearly our best defensive smalls

 

[FoochPackage]

If anyone suggests Blanck or whatever his name is. Please watch him first. He's horrific

 

[TiAn_]

If anyone suggests Blanck or whatever his name is. Please watch him first. He's horrific

I’ve never understood why his name has come up here. He’s multiple levels below Ryan Gardner.

 

[weltschmerz]

Reckon either would be worth a shot as a small defender or tagger? VDM is quick, a natural pest and has a massive tank so could see him being successful as a tagger.

We drafted VDM as a half back.

 

[Bald Headed Flog]

Reckon either would be worth a shot as a small defender or tagger? VDM is quick, a natural pest and has a massive tank so could see him being successful as a tagger.

VDM was drafted as a defender, and I remember watching him in his draft year and thinking his rebound running reminded me of JJ. I’d rather try that than write him off entirely, but definitely would rather Arty in his spot from next year

 

[Snarls Barkley]

VDM was drafted as a defender, and I remember watching him in his draft year and thinking his rebound running reminded me of JJ. I’d rather try that than write him off entirely, but definitely would rather Arty in his spot from next year

He played half back in 2023. Wasn't great, ball use let him down. Body also let him down