List Mgmt. 2025 List Management

[serial_thrilla]

 

[Stinky Lomax]

oh come on. if we are going to compare to Hawthorn can we at least be measured about it? in the last 3 off seasons they have brought in:

• Meek (F4 + O'Meara)
• Amon (UFA, free)
• Chol (F2)
• D'Ambrosio (61 + F4)
• Ginnivan (2nd rounder + F2, with picks coming back)
• Gunston, again (2nd rounder + F2)
• Barrass (F1 + F2)
• Battle (UFA, free)

So they got 8 b22 in, cost them 1 first, 5-6 2nd rounders, and some junk picks.

In the last 3 seasons we have brought in:

• Luke Jackson (1st + F1 + F2)
• Corbett (F4)
• O'Meara (Meek)
• OMac (DFA, free)
• Sharp (PSupp, free)
• Voss (PSupp, free)
• Bolton (3* 1sts + F3 with a 1st coming back, so let's say 2*1sts + F3 for brevity)

So at BEST we got 5 best 22 and 1 depth player. It cost us 4 firsts, meek, a second, a third and junk. The cost we have to pay for players is astronomical. We are never going to get UFA walking to us like Battle.

I think we have had two UFA in the last 10-15 years and they were Reece Conca and Colin ****ing Sylvia. Any other "freebies" we have picked up has been the club willing to task a risk and use up resources (eg list spots). And I would say our astute draft selections, esp the last 3-5 years have us sitting top tier drafting & development wise. we are playing a different game entirely to the big vic clubs + nepo babies.

Brilliant post.

We can’t be Geelong & as you say trying to compare us to Hawthorn in comparing rebuilds is ridiculous. We simply do not have the access to players like those clubs & something would have to change dramatically to make it happen.

Our rebuild will take longer because it comes through the draft & those asking why aren’t we being aggressive? Because we are & getting knocked back. If we’ve had a crack at Kozzie & Warner we’ve spoken to others, but it all happens in a prioritised order.

Just why I’m ranting, why don’t we play quicker like Hawthorn? Because we don’t have the players to do so & we don’t have the pull to bring them in one off season like a club like Hawthorn do. Mitchell can say I need this to make us better & bang their in. We have to draft or take a punt on a player that’d either playing state league or is in the system & not wanted.

 

[Superkoops]

Changes to free agency are easy IMO.

Get rid of compensation picks. Do you think West Coast let this happen with Allen if they'd lose him for nothing? Not a chance. They'd offer him a decent contract and if he didn't accept they'd match the bid and force a trade. Brisbane would have to choose between Allen and their first round Academy prospect.

As for Draper would Essendon allow him to become an unrestricted free agent if they'd receive no compensation? Maybe but only through mismanagement. Think rules that differentiate between restricted and unrestricted free agents would need a few tweaks.

Removing compensation picks would pretty much much only fringe players move as free agents. That's what it should be for.

Or as proposed by Freo - ensure an uncompromised first round. The bands move back one level. Band 1 end of first round etc. you can have access to one first round academy f/s but the pick must be matched with another first round pick and change if needed.

For example Brisbane could match Ashcroft but would need to be with pick 18 or whatever they have plus additional second and third round picks.

Brisbane get a win as their pick moved up from 18 to 5 but comes at a cost with additional picks. As for Gold Coast they can’t be having 3-4 first round academy picks. Gone insane. They can have 1 of them only and the rest go into the open market. Hopefully for them some slip down into the second round. Otherwise they can trade into the first round and select one of them or someone else. In 2024 Brisbane had Ashcroft at 5 and Marshall at 25. As it turned out with bunch of compo and academy picks pick 25 was the last pick of first round. In my proposal Brisbane may have missed out on Marshall but pick 25 would likely be second round - even with end of first round compo. I don’t mind multiple academy and F/s second and third round picks (and cat-B). The Academy was really created for that type of situation and not four first round picks. Has got out of control.

Picks 1-18 are uncompromised first round picks. FA and “Being s#*t” compo starts at end of first round.

 

[Docker82]

We do need a back-up mature Ruck. One that can play a few games as needed. Oliver Eastland (Claremont) and Hamish Free (South Fremantle) are no worse than Reidy. Also Brynn Teakle who has played about 20 AFL games and is available. Essentially we need an OMac to allow a couple of years of development for Riddle. I’d expect this mature ruck to be played even less than OMac given the likelihood that Jackson or Darcy ruck alone with support from Treacy/Voss as option 1 in the event of injury to one of Darcy/Jackson.

Teakle is the obvious one given his AFL experience and being from WA.

I like the idea of him more than the other two due to the fact he's played in the same team as Tristan Xerri. He might be an option if one of our rucks is injured and one of our KPFs rather than just both rucks.

Think they'll be other rucks delisted that can play this role on our list but probably without the WA connection.

Both Teakle and Free could be added as a pre-listed SSP. The rookie list is where this player belongs.

 

[worsemim]

A fundamental issue with FA is the failures of the salary cap.

The way free agency is designed is that the limiting factor in recruiting is supposed to be total salary cap. (Collingwood and Brisbane have got fairly lucky—midfields carried by young, and therefore cheap, F/S stars who have been in the footy system so long that they play with experience beyond their actual games played. Plus some very influential older players taking paycuts.)

Bur broadly, playing for successful clubs gets you so much additional value in sponsorship that it breaks the system. Geelong is emblematic of the problem. Bailey Smith

3

Bailey Smith

Age

25

Ht

185cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.3

5star

K

8.5

3star

HB

9.8

5star

M

2.3

2star

T

3.8

5star

CL

2.7

4star

D

19.8

5star

K

9.6

4star

HB

10.2

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

3.2

4star

CL

3.2

4star

D

14.8

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

7.2

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

3.4

5star

CL

1.6

4star

obviously raised eyebrows. Shannon Neale has spent years as a Cotton On ambassador before even the most dedicated footy freak knew he was—allowing him to sit around developing on a low in-cap salary. (Then there's the soft cap stuff with Chris Scott

Chris Scott

Age

49

Ht

182cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.6

4star

K

11.2

4star

HB

5.4

4star

M

5.1

5star

T

1.6

4star

G

0.4

3star

No current season stats available

D

13.2

4star

K

10.2

4star

HB

3.0

3star

M

2.2

3star

T

2.8

5star

G

0.4

3star

working as an "advisor", the perpetual real estate rumours, etc. etc..) And now Geelong are going to bring in Worpel as a free agent with that spare cash that's rattling around.

Hawthorn seem to also have this suspiciously unlimited salary cap with all the players they're currently linked to.

I do think public salaries would help this, but I don't think it's a total fix. Disclosure of sponsorship, even if it doesn't fall under the cap, would probably help too.

 

[thistimeforsure]

I see Cooper Simpson as our future Zorko. Similar attributes.

Come on man Zorko is one of the best readers of the play of his era , Simpson struggles to find it 4 X a quarter in the WAFL

I’m interested in how he comes along as well but as a high end playmaker????

No chance IMO , as a break the lines with a neat kick type …. hope so

 

[Alfonz]

Come on man Zorko is one of the best readers of the play of his era , Simpson struggles to find it 4 X a quarter in the WAFL

I’m interested in how he comes along as well but as a high end playmaker????

No chance IMO , as a break the lines with a neat kick type …. hope so

Zorko didn't even debut until he was 23 years old. Was overlooked in four consecutive drafts. Nobody thought he could be a high end playmaker when he was 20-21 years old like Simpson currently is.

 

[Cobbler]

I love when posters compare us to the best teams for rebuilds. I get it, but we’re going ok.

Brought in some solid young talent. Drafted very well.

Why not compare us to North or Saints or Bombers who are arguably in a similar spot to us a few years ago?

Hawks have been good for these 2 finals, but let’s not act like they’ve run into rampant sides.

 

[Dirty_banchez]

Motlop to stay at Carlton.

Some of you will be happy to hear that. Not me though, it will be an emotional day for me.

 

[Footskill]

Find another big bodied mid or two and young can go back to half back..

 

[Taylor]

Free agency has been a massive failure as currently constructed, it was meant to help equalise the comp but all it's done is the opposite. The best players from the worst teams just leave and join contenders and the cherry on top is the other 16 clubs are punished with compensation having their draft picks compromised.

Free agency was always for the players. It's made the highest standard players even more highly paid and greater security for those elite players with contract lengths closer to ten years and the usual three or four they were before.

It was never about clubs. The players were given a leverage and the best of them are enjoying it immensely.

The other side of that coin are clubs like Essendon now holding a player who wants out with a long term contract.

 

[thistimeforsure]

Zorko didn't even debut until he was 23 years old. Was overlooked in four consecutive drafts. Nobody thought he could be a high end playmaker when he was 20-21 years old like Simpson currently is.

He came through my old QAFL club Broadbeach , QLD jnr development was just starting to get their shit together QAFL wasn’t the WAFL but every club got 3-4 Lions players allocated too them so the standard wasn’t bad at all and he was consistently racking up 40 every week when he was 21

I had dropped down a level by that time so I don’t know the full story of why he was missed by the Jnr pathways but he was clearly the best player outside the AFL in QLD at the time and a lot better than all the listed players he was going up against

 

[The Feeder Club]

Free agency was always for the players. It's made the highest standard players even more highly paid and greater security for those elite players with contract lengths closer to ten years and the usual three or four they were before.

It was never about clubs. The players were given a leverage and the best of them are enjoying it immensely.

The other side of that coin are clubs like Essendon now holding a player who wants out with a long term contract.

100% this, it had nothing to do with equalisation, that was just AFL spin. It was a a successful power grab by players orchestrated by the AFLPA

 

[malpaso]

100% this, it had nothing to do with equalisation, that was just AFL spin. It was a a successful power grab by players orchestrated by the AFLPA

Free agency is common in most professional sports. AFL kept it at bay as long as they could..

 

[Taylor]

If the AFLPA gets its way the free agency qualification will move from eight years served to six.

And the league will adapt. First, by realising it's matrix for calculating compensation will be pumping out bonus score for free agents two years younger.

Let's say its 2029. Most free agents will land a compensation pick before #21.

 

[The Feeder Club]

Free agency is common in most professional sports. AFL kept it at bay as long as they could..

Yes it is but that wasn't the argument, which was that free agency is a failure because it hasn't brought about equalisation. It was never about equalisation

 

[Alfonz]

He came through my old QAFL club Broadbeach , QLD jnr development was just starting to get their shit together QAFL wasn’t the WAFL but every club got 3-4 Lions players allocated too them so the standard wasn’t bad at all and he was consistently racking up 40 every week when he was 21

I had dropped down a level by that time so I don’t know the full story of why he was missed by the Jnr pathways but he was clearly the best player outside the AFL in QLD at the time

The QAFL would have been WAFL reserves (or even worse) standard. Having 1 or 2 bottom end Lions players actually playing per team wouldn't elevate it to a decent standard. Racking up 40 touches was clearly not seen as having much weight.

And regardless, the point is people wrote him off and didn't think he would be the high end playmaker he is now, just like you are giving Simpson no chance of doing this. Maybe give the kid a chance to see what he could do?

He had 14 and 18 touches when given a go at half back. It doesn't take much with natural progression and experience to lift that near the 20 touch mark and then we could have a reasonably damaging player. Maybe or maybe not Zorko level, but even an Amon or Impey level would be great.

 

[malpaso]

If the AFLPA gets its way the free agency qualification will move from eight years served to six.

And the league will adapt. First, by realising it's matrix for calculating compensation will be pumping out bonus score for free agents two years younger.

Let's say its 2029. Most free agents will land a compensation pick before #21.

The compensation picks are the issue in the AFL. They are too high and don't promote better list management. Clubs would then use "sign & trade" type deals or trade a player a year before FA knowing they did not want to sign again.
Compensation picks should not enter the draft until mid-second round.

 

[Taylor]

The compensation picks are the issue in the AFL. They are too high and don't promote better list management. Clubs would then use "sign & trade" type deals or trade a player a year before FA knowing they did not want to sign again.
Compensation picks should not enter the draft until mid-second round.

I'm fine with compensation picks but I think the bottom four sides shouldn't have their picks diluted by them.

Very average for the last placed side to get pick one, then their second live pick is close to the old start of the third round.

 

[The Feeder Club]

Personally I think making clubs spend most of their cap regardless of the state of their list is a problem. I don't see why a cellar dweller with a crap list shouldn't be able to accumulate a big war chest to outbid higher clubs trying to attract talent. That might aid equalisation a bit, it will never be fully equal but money talks eventually

 

[TheMcManusNose]

Personally I think making clubs spend most of their cap regardless of the state of their list is a problem. I don't see why a cellar dweller with a crap list shouldn't be able to accumulate a big war chest to outbid higher clubs trying to attract talent. That might aid equalisation a bit, it will never be fully equal but money talks eventually

Yeah it's why cap space is actually a pretty useless concept in AFL. There's not much benefit to having it and so the main advantage of letting a free agent leave is rendered moot

 

[Taylor]

I think the actual intention but officially a side effect of the salary cap minimum spend was to stop clubs using the AFL distribution for player payments being used to pay down club debt.

 

[guidodp15]

Limit the amount of players a club can sign in a 4 year windom for FA and allow clubs to pay a portion of possible free agents salary outside the cap to incentivise loyalty like nba

 

[Taylor]

Used to have the veterans list for that. Two players had half their salary not on the total player payments if they had played ten years (maybe over 30 too).

Prior to that it was ten years service and over 30 and unlimited number of.

Now it's an allowance of around 120k a year.

 

[Docker82]

Or as proposed by Freo - ensure an uncompromised first round. The bands move back one level. Band 1 end of first round etc. you can have access to one first round academy f/s but the pick must be matched with another first round pick and change if needed.

For example Brisbane could match Ashcroft but would need to be with pick 18 or whatever they have plus additional second and third round picks.

Brisbane get a win as their pick moved up from 18 to 5 but comes at a cost with additional picks. As for Gold Coast they can’t be having 3-4 first round academy picks. Gone insane. They can have 1 of them only and the rest go into the open market. Hopefully for them some slip down into the second round. Otherwise they can trade into the first round and select one of them or someone else. In 2024 Brisbane had Ashcroft at 5 and Marshall at 25. As it turned out with bunch of compo and academy picks pick 25 was the last pick of first round. In my proposal Brisbane may have missed out on Marshall but pick 25 would likely be second round - even with end of first round compo. I don’t mind multiple academy and F/s second and third round picks (and cat-B). The Academy was really created for that type of situation and not four first round picks. Has got out of control.

Picks 1-18 are uncompromised first round picks. FA and “Being s#*t” compo starts at end of first round.

Changes to free agency and changes to bids for father-son and academies need to happen together.

I don't think either will be removed even in the first round but the AFL needs to make it harder to match bids in the first round. If a team has pick 6 but there's a bid on a father-son at pick 4, I haven't got an issue with it. The issue has been a system that allows 4-5 picks in the 20s and 30s to match pick 4 instead. It allows the premiership team to get pick 4 by barely giving up more than their first rounder.

Possible restrictions could be:

• Removing the discount completely.
• Significantly remove how much teams can go into deficit. I'm fine if they're short the value of say pick 50 but it's like 18 atm.
• Having requirements around how bids are matched in the first round (i.e. must include pick in the next 18 selections, limit on amount of picks used)
• Limits of how many first round bids can be matched in each year. Say two in one year, three in a three year period.
• No more picks than list spots during the draft. ATM that's a rule before the draft only.

Realistically the premiership team matching a top four pick should borderline destroy their chances of matching a bid for the next few years unless they trade out some very good players to get the picks needed. It wouldn't happen and your Ashcrofts and Darcys would go into the open pool.

 

[Taylor]

The AFL has made it harder to match bids and we haven't even had one draft yet to see how it goes without already talking about making it even harsher.