List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion - Part 3

[Hubnester]

2025 List Management Discussion - Part 3

Now that our season is over, and news is starting to break - it's time for a fresh thread.

This thread is to discuss all things list management - trades, draft, free agency, delistings and more.
As we are now officially in our off-season, we'll be wanting to keep this thread more strictly on-topic than the previous iterations.
Be respectful. You are allowed to disagree with someone - but play the ball, not the man. Repeat offenders will have their posting rights revoked.

Thanks to Lore once again for this incredibly useful spreadsheet.

2025 KEY DATES
Free Agency Period: Friday, October 3rd - Friday, October 10th
Trade Period: Monday, October 6th - Wednesday, October 15th
AFL Draft: Wednesday, November 19th - Thursday, November 20th

See Also:
2025 Year in Review Rumours & Confirmed Movements 2025 Draft Discussion
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[phantom13]

According to the Dogs, the Bailey Smith trade is a good precedent for Wilkie

They said the same about NAS.

I suppose Wilkie has a couple weeks to do an ACL, get caught on camera knocking back rails and tell Ross to go **** himself.

Exciting times.

 

[bergholt]

IF he is upset or considering demanding a trade

Someone should just remind him that greed gets you nowhere.

$750k and ultimate team respect, probably captaincy and maybe the chance to do what only one other has done before him.

That's a lot better than $120k as an accountant and $50k to run around in the SANFL

How is that the comparison? Do you think he's going to get delisted and go back to the SANFL?

The comparison is between playing at the Saints and playing somewhere else in the AFL, not going back in time 7 years.

 

[phantom13]

I wonder if that gorilla May coming on the market affects the Cal situation? Surely the Bulldogs would look at May?

Someone posted a tweet that the dogs arent considering him (Bevo being the genius he is would rather stick with the status quo than take a risk).

I suspect theyll pursue Wilkie til its done or dead THEN maybe consider May, at least for them i doubt May has too many suitors.

 

[gringo2011]

Why would you want that? NAS established himself as the absolute top line midfielder we have craved for a decade and you want to move him out lol.

Did he play a full match as a mid in any game? Pretty sure he was only in bursts. When we take him off HBF we look thin down back as well. Flanders wants midfield minutes and probably more suited to being beaten up than our price rooster. He's played an elite season off HB already so can easily rotate the two through the m midfield with no breakdown.

 

[marcus1232]

Well Bailey was OOC so it's not the same.

And Bailey wanted out 18 months prior

 

[gringo2011]

Intresting observation from other boards and especially media that so many are so bloody desperate for us to **** all this up. It's not like we are the blue and bombers, they're campaigners and we should celebrate what the near future is for them. Our biggest crime is signing contracts after being no where near it for 15 years

Footy media is 90% rage baiting fans to get clicks. Other fans are always going to punch down and you only earn respect by beating their sides and playing finals. I don't mind everyone heaping pressure on us. We needed a kick up the arse.

 

[akaifu]

Did he play a full match as a mid in any game? Pretty sure he was only in bursts. When we take him off HBF we look thin down back as well. Flanders wants midfield minutes and probably more suited to being beaten up than our price rooster. He's played an elite season off HB already so can easily rotate the two through the m midfield with no breakdown.

He had the most CBAs of any Saint (except Marshall) in rounds 21 and 23 with 83% and 80%. 79% in Round 19 against Geelong behind Steele's 82%

Also had 60% and 67% against Dees (20) and GWS (24)

 

[phantom13]

Footy media is 90% rage baiting fans to get clicks. Other fans are always going to punch down and you only earn respect by beating their sides and playing finals. I don't mind everyone heaping pressure on us. We needed a kick up the arse.

It’s also a pretty obvious angle too.

Saints have gone mad with free agents and it’s pissed off their playing group.

It makes sense, it’s an easy write and it’ll get clicks.

It’s just that no one knows if there is any truth to it at all.

 

[gringo2011]

Told you blokes when NAZ signed, a full 11 game membership and reserved seat.

I was despondent and thought the AFL was allowing the club to wither on the vine.
However the club could not have done more to restore my confidence
1. Upended the league regarding NGA and FS
2. Saved millions in cap to get a raft of new players in that has again upset the AFL industry
3. Signed all the relevant OOC players like NAZ and Windy, extensions to Pou, and the kids
4. Making the club relevant again. A club that wont be walked over.

It may not work, history shows it rarely does for us, but hope is restored in a possible rise up the ladder and the admin of the club and running of the footy dept.

I'm not into positivity. 160 years of being shit would suggest anyone that does get too confident is an idiot, but we have given ourselves a decent chance this time.

Footy department rebuilt with pro staff, good recruiters, quality coaching, a rebuild that was hard and fast with what looks like a genuine young talent pool already here. Development systems on the improve including restructuring our VFL side, the best pool of older high end talent since Lyon was here last time, depth improved and a real shove of momentum building to kick start it all.

It doesn't guarantee anything but it at least puts us in the race this time. I was brutally critical of the Lethlean and Pelican builds because they did more wrong than right and looked like it was set up to fail with none of the necessary structures in place. This is at least in with a chance. The Wright brothers worked out that you needed wings this time.

 

[gringo2011]

It’s also a pretty obvious angle too.

Saints have gone mad with free agents and it’s pissed off their playing group.

It makes sense, it’s an easy write and it’ll get clicks.

It’s just that no one knows if there is any truth to it at all.

It probably even has some basis in fact but nuance doesn't sell advertising.

 

[BucketsandBanger]

Did he play a full match as a mid in any game? Pretty sure he was only in bursts. When we take him off HBF we look thin down back as well. Flanders wants midfield minutes and probably more suited to being beaten up than our price rooster. He's played an elite season off HB already so can easily rotate the two through the m midfield with no breakdown.

No one plays 100% game time as a mid. There were games when he played vast majority as a mid and absolutely dominated (Geelong from the top of my head.) Yes you want versatility and different groups running through the centre square but they ain’t going to be actively making moves to free NAS to go back to majority half back given what he just did in the second half of the season.

Any discussion about our midfield group going forward starts with NAS being the best and most important piece.

 

[gringo2011]

Playing devils advocate (and I’d note I think most of this stuff about Wilkie is bullshit).
1- I think the suggestion is he and his management would raise this stuff, mostly false, to force the trade he apparently wants, not that it’s true.
2- again the suggestion seems to be that he’s filthy Aleer and Jsos would be getting paid what he is, not that he doesn’t want help or good players but that if they’re worth $700 he’s worth a million.
3- money over success seems to be the sticking point
4- totally agree, frankly I think people suggesting he’s gonna go nuclear to get to another club for the payrise are being pretty silly. Merett is one example, I can’t think of many (any?) others and even then Merett actually didn’t do that much of nuclear stuff, the media played that out and he just didn’t intervene.

Not many managers are willing to blow up relationships inside clubs for a small pay rise either. Paul Connors was pretty brutal but he wasn't an idiot either. Just a bit of a steamroller.

 

[gringo2011]

Well it was a choice between bedwetter and Happy Clapper,and I literally haven't wet the bed in days now.

I call it realists versus the deluded.

 

[phantom13]

Not many managers are willing to blow up relationships inside clubs for a small pay rise either. Paul Connors was pretty brutal but he wasn't an idiot either. Just a bit of a steamroller.

Also take some comprehension to understand Wilkie may be leveraging the current market for his own financial gain.

Lot easier for the mouth breathers to understand "WILKIE MAD, GONNA LEAVE, BEVO PHONE CALL"

 

[stavro#4]

Also take some comprehension to understand Wilkie may be leveraging the current market for his own financial gain.

Lot easier for the mouth breathers to understand "WILKIE MAD, GONNA LEAVE, BEVO PHONE CALL"

I see you have visited the Wilkie thread.

 

[CanadianSaint]

I think this Wilkie stuff is BS, but if it were to come about, the only thing I would be accepting for him is Richards. If their need is a defender, and they go after the best... Our need is a Midfielder, we want your best. And none of this "hes worth more than Wilkie" stuff, you need him, we need Richards, so how much do you need him...

 

[gringo2011]

Yeh but Dusty wasnt a full time mid either.

I think were clearly trying to develop complimentary groups of mids (think Macrae with Nas and Windy, extractor, pace and finish, two way runner).

Im big on this, its way more important to have balance than stars.

Also looking at Carlton who have the biggest pool of A grade talent according to draft guru. It costs too much to keep a stable of absolute blue chip players on your books. It means that you can't top up to cover holes further down the list and players get picked off by other clubs.

When you look at Geelong it is hard to work out who you'd want to poach because they aren't really a side full of absolute freakish talent but their system seems to allow anyone to come in and play to full potential from day one. They have half a dozen really nice players but apart from Jezza none are absolutely freakish.

Holmes and Bailey Smith are probably their best mids now. Both are excellent but Smith is a terrible kick, Holmes is a freakish athletic player but not an absolute superstar type.

Guys like Dempsey seem to defy logic. Gryan Myers too. They seem to be ordinary players that play above their level somehow.

 

[phantom13]

I think this Wilkie stuff is BS, but if it were to come about, the only thing I would be accepting for him is Richards. If their need is a defender, and they go after the best... Our need is a Midfielder, we want your best. And none of this "hes worth more than Wilkie" stuff, you need him, we need Richards, so how much do you need him...

More.

Theyve got midfield depth, we cant cover Wilkie.

Richards and Friejah

 

[gringo2011]

Well Bailey was OOC so it's not the same.

Off a knee, barely played for a couple of years with reported MH issues and plenty of unsavoury rumours surrounding him including him being on the outer with teammates. It wasn't like he was walking back in round one 2025.

 

[CursingFijian]

One or more of those,while making it as an AFL player wont make it in thr midfield.
Many experts told us Coffield and Clark would eventually transition into the mids. Clark nearly did but we saw his best games in years off a HBF. Coffield never did. Sinclair another. An AA HBF'er but not a mid.
The two I see at risk are Travaglia and Wilson. Not bagging, but see them as a HBF'er and Winger. They may prove me wrong but will take a few more years to transition. NAZ is 22 and only just broke out.
Windy has proven he is valuable as a mid already even in a tagging role who gets his own ball. He will also get better and is a few seasons ahead of the other two.
Then there are injuries. When was the last time we had a fully fit squad to choose from?
One forgotten player is Paddy Dow. A number 3 pick so has talent. If he is over his injuries I am hoping he could surprise and throw a spanner in the works, but in a good way.

Paddy Dow is like Nas for me, his inside ability is related to an ultra fast set of hands and reaction time and decent acceleration.

What we really need is a bullock that can run and kick in the middle, and make other big bodied mids accountable. Newcombe is the modern prototype.

I’m really hoping Boxshall can become that for us. We know he’s strong and has a decent tank. He just needs a lot more kicking finesse.

 

[gringo2011]

I wonder if that gorilla May coming on the market affects the Cal situation? Surely the Bulldogs would look at May?

May is cooked. He was playing terrible footy this year, is ancient, slowing down and plenty of people suggesting he's got a few cultural issues. Plenty are suggesting he'll get paid to sit out 2026.

 

[phantom13]

Also looking at Carlton who have the biggest pool of A grade talent according to draft guru. It costs too much to keep a stable of absolute blue chip players on your books. It means that you can't top up to cover holes further down the list and players get picked off by other clubs.

When you look at Geelong it is hard to work out who you'd want to poach because they aren't really a side full of absolute freakish talent but their system seems to allow anyone to come in and play to full potential from day one. They have half a dozen really nice players but apart from Jezza none are absolutely freakish.

Holmes and Bailey Smith are probably their best mids now. Both are excellent but Smith is a terrible kick, Holmes is a freakish athletic player but not an absolute superstar type.

Guys like Dempsey seem to defy logic. Gryan Myers too. They seem to be ordinary players that play above their level somehow.

Theyre also really complimentary.

Atkins is the grunt, Holmes and Smith the run, Mullin and O'Connor the defensive types.

If you have that spread you can compete at every stoppage.

I cant remember which team said it but you wanna be really hard to play against, i reckon thats what were doing, even defensively our stock now makes us super adaptable and really difficult to find clear winners for oppo teams.

 

[gringo2011]

Someone posted a tweet that the dogs arent considering him (Bevo being the genius he is would rather stick with the status quo than take a risk).

I suspect theyll pursue Wilkie til its done or dead THEN maybe consider May, at least for them i doubt May has too many suitors.

They'd be better to play Busslinger until he finds his feet. Send Naughton and put Khamis as a foil for Darcy to play Croft there.

 

[phantom13]

They'd be better to play Busslinger until he finds his feet. Send Naughton and put Khamis as a foil for Darcy to play Croft there.

Jedd seems like hes one on Bevos shitlist.

 

[CanadianSaint]

More.

Theyve got midfield depth, we cant cover Wilkie.

Richards and Friejah

I'm not going to say its done, because I still don't want Wilkie to leave, but its an ok deal!

Hahaha!

I still think this is management being management.... Wilkie stays, and becomes captain I hope!