Strategy Trade and List Management Thread Part 8 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[_Mike_]

Opposition supporters coming to troll , you have been warned

 

[Mofra]

It tells us everything we need to know that we were prepared to pay the mid Cal Wilkie in excess of $1.5 million a season to understand the reality that the club faces. I know you hold a moneyball candle for Taylar Young. But, errr Butts was/is the only viable candidate who would move the KPD needle for us and he was pretty clearly unobtainable unless we moved the Wilkie money over to him and that would've been insane. And even then Adelaide were under no obligation to do anything than hold him to his contract.

Why do we need to be so adament that any KPD we bring in needs to be an A grader, yet not apply the same logic to every other position on the ground?

We chased Erasmus & Dev Robertson in the past month. Are they A graders? Budarick helps us but isn't an A grader either.

There's a stunning lack of consistency with our strategy this trading period.

 

[Mofra]

I suppose it depends on the definition of 'star'.

Regan's comment about only trading for someone better than we currently have seems a fair enough rule of thumb.

In some areas, this sets the standard for a 'star' fairly modestly.

We've probably noted a few players during the course of this thread that would be better options than a raw, developing Buss or a JoD unfairly being played out of position.

 

[BEaston]

I don’t really understand what’s wrong with people having unrealistic expectations. These are BigFooty opinions, people can feel however they want. I’m not going to get annoyed by someone who has different expectations or different views than me.

People can have hopes we’re going to make a big trade like I have hopes we’re going to win the premiership every year. It may be unrealistic but it makes it more enjoyable.

It’s clear we have a need for a KPD and I don’t think it’s fair to really say that people questioning whether a mid-range option could help are being ridiculous.

Honestly, I do worry about some people's mental health though. It seems a lot of their time and energy is put into this stuff and when they're let down, don't take it very well. That might be a bit extreme but some of the posts here are a little bit off kilter if I'm honest.

 

[Optimistic Dog]

Jordan start training as defender now. Non recruitment of a key defender means you will be a defender next season you have all the attributes height, speed and pedigree. Just need strength and experience.

 

[_Cerberus_]

Why do we need to be so adament that any KPD we bring in needs to be an A grader, yet not apply the same logic to every other position on the ground?

We chased Erasmus & Dev Robertson in the past month. Are they A graders? Budarick helps us but isn't an A grader either.

There's a stunning lack of consistency with our strategy this trading period.

Probably because we actually have A grade midfielders, whom just need decent support players around them. Where we have zero A, perhaps even B grade defenders if we are talking from a pure defensive standpoint.

 

[Shacf501]

Jordan start training as defender now. Non recruitment of a key defender means you will be a defender next season you have all the attributes height, speed and pedigree. Kust need strength and experience.

a preseason of KFC to put on weight!

 

[_Cerberus_]

Jordan start training as defender now. Non recruitment of a key defender means you will be a defender next season you have all the attributes height, speed and pedigree. Kust need strength and experience.

He will be years away from being strong enough to play there. And his skill set screams another intercept defender than a one on one type. He won't be our answer during this premiership window. Maybe the next one.

Plus he has shown more as forward anyway.

 

[geoffjennings79]

Having spoken to my list manager contact this morning, my disappointment in the club cannot be put into words.

Elaborate?

Seriously. Whats the point of this post?

I'm with Mojo and Norm.

Please elaborate, even if to a small degree, so we have some idea what you're on about.

 

[_Cerberus_]

Having spoken to my list manager contact this morning, my disappointment in the club cannot be put into words.

Why be so cryptic?

1. We won't be signing a defender?
2. We will sign someone, who will divide the fans or make us be like wtf?
3. Something else unrelated to our defender chase?

 

[Dogs Rule]

I think the frustration is that clearly Wilkie was Plan A, it was a Hail Mary, so Butts was a kind of Plan B, another Hail Mary. So why weren't we working around the clock trying to nail Plan C and D knowing A and B would likely fail?

That's the issue here. We needed a back up, a sure thing, and seems like we didn't have one.

 

[weltschmerz]

I think the frustration is that clearly Wilkie was Plan A, it was a Hail Mary, so Butts was a kind of Plan B, another Hail Mary. So why weren't we working around the clock trying to nail Plan C and D knowing A and B would likely fail?

That's the issue here. We needed a back up, a sure thing, and seems like we didn't have one.

Wasn’t JSOS our plan A?

 

[cleveland]

I'm with Mojo and Norm.

Please elaborate, even if to a small degree, so we have some idea what you're on about.

I would say, we are doing nothing.

 

[cleveland]

I would say, we are doing nothing.

Or getting May

 

[Bald]

I think the frustration is that clearly Wilkie was Plan A, it was a Hail Mary, so Butts was a kind of Plan B, another Hail Mary. So why weren't we working around the clock trying to nail Plan C and D knowing A and B would likely fail?

That's the issue here. We needed a back up, a sure thing, and seems like we didn't have one.

Given there wasn't really anyone, wouldn't plans C and D have been hail marys as well?

 

[dogwatch]

Why do we need to be so adament that any KPD we bring in needs to be an A grader, yet not apply the same logic to every other position on the ground?

We chased Erasmus & Dev Robertson in the past month. Are they A graders? Budarick helps us but isn't an A grader either.

There's a stunning lack of consistency with our strategy this trading period.

Naah, I can see the logic in it.

Compare the "KPD" role to the "Midfielder" role for example (or you could do this with the "Forward" role if you like)

We are pretty well placed for the moment with A-grade midfielders but we need a bit more breadth, so getting a B or C grader who can play a solid role is all that's needed.

However with KPDs (or even "defenders") we are desperately short of class allied with maturity. We can really only cite Bailey Dale in terms of general defenders. However we have lots of C graders and maybe a few B graders (eg Lobb). So bringing in more C-grade defenders, especially KPDs, makes little sense. Maybe as depth, but we already have Ryan Gardner. (Who, incidentally, could be in for quite a few games this year!)

Not sure where you'd grade Budarick (hopefully a B but maybe a C) or what type of player he is meant to be, but he would certainly make sense as a Duryea type replacement. If he's not that then the writing is on the wall for JJ. So we will soon need a replacement in that role too.

A B-grader would do the job nicely - we already have the Baker/Bramble types who I'd call C-graders.

 

[dogwatch]

He will be years away from being strong enough to play there. And his skill set screams another intercept defender than a one on one type. He won't be our answer during this premiership window. Maybe the next one.

Plus he has shown more as forward anyway.

Young talls tend to excel as forwards earlier than young defenders. For fairly obvious reasons, including at least one that you've mentioned.
So it's no surprise that a swingman like Croft shows us more as a forward. I'm not even sure he has had a full VFL game in defence yet has he?

But at some point you have to invest in developing your KPDs. Are we prepared to do that?
Or are we going to continue with Fail Mary bids every off-season?

 

[_Cerberus_]

I think the frustration is that clearly Wilkie was Plan A, it was a Hail Mary, so Butts was a kind of Plan B, another Hail Mary. So why weren't we working around the clock trying to nail Plan C and D knowing A and B would likely fail?

That's the issue here. We needed a back up, a sure thing, and seems like we didn't have one.

To be fair, if plan A was likely to fail, then plans C, D, E, F, to Z would most likely have failed even more. We targeted Wilkie because we rated him, and thought he was our best chance of prying anyone out at all. As myself and others have pointed out, who were the realistic back up plans? We asked for Butts, he and the Crows said no. We sure ain't gonna ask for Taylor from GWS or any other stars under contract. The only realistic ones were other teams fringe defenders, who would be more the same level of the guys we already have. We need a certain TYPE of defender, which makes the pool even smaller.

As for all those who have said we had no plan. Unless you actually attend club board meetings, list management meetings. None of us here know what plans we had, when we started planning the off season. But we definitely didn't only start planning for next year two days ago, and had zero plans like some think. Nothing is happening because there is truly little options out there.

 

[Mofra]

Jordan start training as defender now. Non recruitment of a key defender means you will be a defender next season you have all the attributes height, speed and pedigree. Just need strength and experience.

Buss, JoD, Walker & Will Darcy.
I actually think we're ok for developing KPDs. A mature option for a couple of years would really help us in the meantime.

 

[Optimistic Dog]

He will be years away from being strong enough to play there. And his skill set screams another intercept defender than a one on one type. He won't be our answer during this premiership window. Maybe the next one.

Plus he has shown more as forward anyway.

So, we rely on Lobb, JOD and Buss with Gardner as a back up. I can see the see the same defensive issues not sure how we improve it by not making any changes.

 

[_Cerberus_]

Young talls tend to excel as forwards earlier than young defenders. For fairly obvious reasons, including at least one that you've mentioned.
So it's no surprise that a swingman like Croft shows us more as a forward. I'm not even sure he has had a full VFL game in defence yet has he?

But at some point you have to invest in developing your KPDs. Are we prepared to do that?
Or are we going to continue with Fail Mary bids every off-season?

We can prepare. My point still stands that we need someone for this premiership window. He isn't turning into a player who will shut down the leagues gorilla forwards for at least two years. And he is likely another interceptor than a lock down type. I don't see him being big bodied, lock down type that we need. And we need one whilst the current window is open, Croft won't be the answer in time.

 

[Dogs Rule]

Buckley to the Cats as an assistant.

 

[Norm De Guerre]

I don’t really understand what’s wrong with people having unrealistic expectations. These are BigFooty opinions, people can feel however they want. I’m not going to get annoyed by someone who has different expectations or different views than me.

Theres nothing at all wrong with having an option.

People get to voice theirs. I obviously quite like to express mine.

Then we get to argue endlessly over which is the valid view of the clubs trading practices. Safe in the knowledge that for all of our collective post counts. In the end, for all of our self importance on these matters whatever we say means **** all in the real world of list management.

People can have hopes we’re going to make a big trade like I have hopes we’re going to win the premiership every year. It may be unrealistic but it makes it more enjoyable.

I too get enjoyment as I bring my perspective to these unrealistic or otherwise scenarios.

Its a nice distraction from doing anything meaningful at work.

It’s clear we have a need for a KPD and I don’t think it’s fair to really say that people questioning whether a mid-range option could help are being ridiculous.

The thing is that the 3 KPD we have been publicly linked to Silvagni, Wilkie and Butts is that they are by definition "mid-range options." They are clearly a tier below the games elite KPD and several tiers above most of the other names bandied about in this thread.

Outside of bringing in a developing KPD prospect. I think that the need for a ready made KPD is somewhat overstated. In my view a lot of our deficiencies are centred around how we set up and defend starting at the other end of the ground and through the middle. I would hope that the coach has the wherewithal to address this issue going into next season. But Im a fool and an eternal optimist in that regard.

Why do we need to be so adament that any KPD we bring in needs to be an A grader, yet not apply the same logic to every other position on the ground?

Because we already have 4 ready to go sub-A grade KPD on the list. As well as the prospect of Jordan Croft being developed into that position. What we need is a genuine game changer in the back half. Not more of the same. This is where I find myself and the club in compete simpatico.

We chased Erasmus & Dev Robertson in the past month. Are they A graders? Budarick helps us but isn't an A grader either.

There's a stunning lack of consistency with our strategy this trading period.

No they aren't.

What they are is in keeping with our strategy of bringing in a B grade role player(s) that we do most trade periods.

The very model of consistency.

 

[Bulldogs85]

I would just keep Buku and tell Carlton they can keep the future 3rd Rounder

 

[_Cerberus_]

So, we rely on Lobb, JOD and Buss with Gardner as a back up. I can see the see the same defensive issues not sure how we improve it by not making any changes.

Our hands are tied.

Structural changes are just as important. Besides I think we will be better defensively next season from our mid and small sized defenders. Tall forwards are easier to nullify if we don't play our stupidly high press and allow opponents yardage of space to hit leads and handball over our heads. We did it well for most of 2024, and the GWS game this season. Our coaches just need to stop being stubborn and respect defense more. Defense should always come first, as it wins finals. All out attack is sexy for the fans, but not sustainable in finals.

 

[Mofra]

Naah, I can see the logic in it.

Compare the "KPD" role to the "Midfielder" role for example (or you could do this with the "Forward" role if you like)

We are pretty well placed for the moment with A-grade midfielders but we need a bit more breadth, so getting a B or C grader who can play a solid role is all that's needed.

However with KPDs (or even "defenders") we are desperately short of class allied with maturity. We can really only cite Bailey Dale in terms of general defenders. However we have lots of C graders and maybe a few B graders (eg Lobb). So bringing in more C-grade defenders, especially KPDs, makes little sense. Maybe as depth, but we already have Ryan Gardner. (Who, incidentally, could be in for quite a few games this year!)

Not sure where you'd grade Budarick (hopefully a B but maybe a C) or what type of player he is meant to be, but he would certainly make sense as a Duryea type replacement. If he's not that then the writing is on the wall for JJ. So we will soon need a replacement in that role too.

A B-grader would do the job nicely - we already have the Baker/Bramble types who I'd call C-graders.

I genuinely think that JoD is an excellent 'chop-out' guy, even from round 1 2026. I'd rather him play that role than be stuck at FB.
Just one player who is 'decent' and has a strong enough body to anchor the FB role, along with acquiring Budarick, really makes us much stronger in the back half.

I don't mind us looking at mature midfield options too but I still think Harmes will recover over the pre-season, and Sonny can play defensive roles if need be so we could be ok there if we miss out on potential midfield targets.