Society/Culture Woke. Can you tell real from parody? - Part 2 - NO SLEEP TILL BROOKLYN

[Aussie in exile]

Really doesn't bother me at all if somebody uses the word "woke" as a slur. In fact, it offers valuable information about who the person is, their cognisant level of themselves and those around them, with a score of 1 or 2 out of 10 depending on how often it comes up in their vocabulary.

The uneducated use the word woke without knowing the origin of the word

 

[RCAB]

The uneducated use the word woke without knowing the origin of the word

Elon on Rogan's podcast recently used the word "woke" about a dozen times and "woke mind virus virus" and "woke bubble" about a handful of times.

 

[Aussie in exile]

Elon on Rogan's podcast recently used the word "woke" about a dozen times and "woke mind virus virus" and "woke bubbl

He obviously doesn't understand the origin of the word then, and probably doesn't want too in his pandering to draft dodging diaper wearing donny

 

[Seeds]

There are now heaps of books and journal articles that describe the phenomena or what people (mostly left wing) who complain about woke mean when they complain about woke. Its that phenomena that this thread is supposed to be about.

Its not the original definition. Words gain new definitions over time. The idea that one single original definition is the only definition that should be used for words just does not fit with reality. Nearly all words have multiple definitions that evolve over time.

And the definition is also not some vague unintelligent concept used by low iq maga supporters to describe everything about the left. Those same people use socialism to describe everything they dont like. Do we therefore say socialism has no definition as well? Lets not take our language lessons from the unintelligent who seem only capable of seperating everything they dont like into a single bucket.

And in the end if you want to be a stickler and keep your one and only definition for woke it doesnt change the fact there is a phenomena out there that people are complaining about. The emergence of new ideas from the left about 10-20 years ago that in some ways is the antithesis of what liberals believed in the 1990s. This is clearly what this thread is supposed to be discussing. Whether we call this woke or something else is irrelevant.

To pretend otherwise and get stuck in a semantic discussion about the true meaning of the word woke to avoid discussing the intended phenomena the op had in mind when using the word is intellectually dishonest. And frankly quite boring.

 

[Chief]

Its not the original definition. Words gain new definitions over time. The idea that one single original definition is the only definition that should be used for words just does not fit with reality. Nearly all words have multiple definitions that evolve over time.

Where do they get those definitions?

Often from people aiming to belittle and negate the original idea.

Apparently "racist" is so overused as to have no meaning any more, according to some.

I disagree.

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

Where do they get those definitions?

Often from people aiming to belittle and negate the original idea.

Apparently "racist" is so overused as to have no meaning any more, according to some.

I disagree.

Julia Gillard was responsible for the broadening and changing of the term 'Misogyny'. Essentially what used to be a complete hatred of all females, now has been broadened to pretty much just mean predjudice against women.

Gillard prompts misogyny definition rethink

Prime Minister Julia Gillard's speech in Parliament on misogyny has prompted the Macquarie Dictionary to broaden its definition of the word.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Julia Gillard was responsible for the broadening and changing of the term 'Misogyny'. Essentially what used to be a complete hatred of all females, now has been broadened to pretty much just mean predjudice against women.

Gillard prompts misogyny definition rethink

Prime Minister Julia Gillard's speech in Parliament on misogyny has prompted the Macquarie Dictionary to broaden its definition of the word.

www.abc.net.au

 

[sr36]

There are now heaps of books and journal articles that describe the phenomena or what people (mostly left wing) who complain about woke mean when they complain about woke. Its that phenomena that this thread is supposed to be about.

Its not the original definition. Words gain new definitions over time. The idea that one single original definition is the only definition that should be used for words just does not fit with reality. Nearly all words have multiple definitions that evolve over time.

And the definition is also not some vague unintelligent concept used by low iq maga supporters to describe everything about the left. Those same people use socialism to describe everything they dont like. Do we therefore say socialism has no definition as well? Lets not take our language lessons from the unintelligent who seem only capable of seperating everything they dont like into a single bucket.

And in the end if you want to be a stickler and keep your one and only definition for woke it doesnt change the fact there is a phenomena out there that people are complaining about. The emergence of new ideas from the left about 10-20 years ago that in some ways is the antithesis of what liberals believed in the 1990s. This is clearly what this thread is supposed to be discussing. Whether we call this woke or something else is irrelevant.

To pretend otherwise and get stuck in a semantic discussion about the true meaning of the word woke to avoid discussing the intended phenomena the op had in mind when using the word is intellectually dishonest. And frankly quite boring.

It's important to look at the context of the change to understand how idiotic the change has been.

Those claiming to have woken up to "deep state" using the term "woke" to ridicule people for claiming to have woken up to structural racism.

 

[Chief]

View attachment 2469481

That's some bitter onions.

 

[Carringbush2010]

It's important to look at the context of the change to understand how idiotic the change has been.

Those claiming to have woken up to "deep state" using the term "woke" to ridicule people for claiming to have woken up to structural racism.

Or to ridicule the ridiculous,

For example Albos Joy Division t shirt, I mean cmon. TBH I had no idea about the alternate meaning apart from a band name until the media made a song and dance about it.

The media jumped on it straight away in an attempt to make a mountain out of a nothing burger.

Then you'd get commentators (1 I saw on the abc) who was genuinely annoyed Albo wore the t - shirt 'such a poor choice of t shirt' and I'm like 'ffs grown the phuq up'. Like she gave the impression she's one of those types that goes looking for offence so she can grind her axe. Snowflake.

Things like this are justified in the criticism calling it irrational or if you want 'woke'

 

[evolved2]

Where do they get those definitions?

Often from people aiming to belittle and negate the original idea.

Apparently "racist" is so overused as to have no meaning any more, according to some.

I disagree.

The problem is that the far left (woke) are inconsistent in their usage of the term "racist". When someone of a different political persuasion critiques Lidia Thorpe, it's because they don't like uppity black women. When someone who is woke critiques Jacinta Price, it's for different reasons.

The woke will tell you Australia is a racist nation, yet lack answers when you ask which nations aren't racist.

Criticise Islam and you're racist...yes for criticising a religion.

Increasingly, the far left is losing relevance in Australia. One Nation would have a higher primary vote in a federal election held today than the Greens.

 

[JackOutback]

Increasingly, the far left is losing relevance in Australia. One Nation would have a higher primary vote in a federal election held today than the Greens.

The Greens got 12 per cent of the primary vote at an election six months ago, One Nation got 6.5. Polling always seems to suggest a 'surge' in One Nation votes that never eventuates on polling day. I wouldn't be putting much stock in one poll, particularly as any gains are largely by cannibalising far right votes from the Liberal Party.

 

[Chadwiko]

Zohran wins! We are so back!

 

[Chief]

The problem is that the far left (woke)

This is just weird terminology, for a start.

are inconsistent in their usage of the term "racist". When someone of a different political persuasion critiques Lidia Thorpe, it's because they don't like uppity black women.

The word "critiques" is doing the work of a huge tarp, here.

When someone who is woke critiques Jacinta Price, it's for different reasons.

Generally becuase they aren't aiming at her gender or skin colour.

The woke will tell you Australia is a racist nation, yet lack answers when you ask which nations aren't racist.

You sound woke, now.

Criticise Islam and you're racist...yes for criticising a religion.

As we know, and by "we" I include you, "racist" and "bigoted sometimes get interchanged.

As we know, the main criticism by people with a certain grouping of expressed opinions is of Islam, while the "white" religions don't get that same scrutiny.

Hmmm....

Increasingly, the far left is losing relevance in Australia. One Nation would have a higher primary vote in a federal election held today than the Greens.

Which speaks to some crusty old opinions held by some plain old bigots.

What do you think of the attendances at the March for White Australia dropping off a cliff by the second go at it?

Nothing to do with the fact it's run by Nazis?

 

[Gethelred]

The problem is that the far left (woke) are inconsistent in their usage of the term "racist". When someone of a different political persuasion critiques Lidia Thorpe, it's because they don't like uppity black women. When someone who is woke critiques Jacinta Price, it's for different reasons.

Or, alternatively, those people aren't woke at all, but are left wing and racist?

Nah, that couldn't be it.

The woke will tell you Australia is a racist nation, yet lack answers when you ask which nations aren't racist.

... wat?

The point of saying that Australia is a racist nation isn't to attack Australia but to say that we could be better. Why does it matter to you if other nations are racist?

Shouldn't we clean our own bedrooms before criticizing others?

Criticise Islam and you're racist...yes for criticising a religion.

Criticize arabs under the auspices of criticizing islam and yes, you're being racist.

Increasingly, the far left is losing relevance in Australia. One Nation would have a higher primary vote in a federal election held today than the Greens.

Not only is this completely untrue, it's proudly and furiously so. You can apply for American citizenship whenever you like now, I think.

In all seriousness now, this post is lazy. Every single point raised is generalized before you twist it into a pretzel, and in no way do you actually make a valid or even successful argument against who you're trying to criticize.

 

[kranky al]

Or to ridicule the ridiculous,

For example Albos Joy Division t shirt, I mean cmon. TBH I had no idea about the alternate meaning apart from a band name until the media made a song and dance about it.

The media jumped on it straight away in an attempt to make a mountain out of a nothing burger.

Then you'd get commentators (1 I saw on the abc) who was genuinely annoyed Albo wore the t - shirt 'such a poor choice of t shirt' and I'm like 'ffs grown the phuq up'. Like she gave the impression she's one of those types that goes looking for offence so she can grind her axe. Snowflake.

Things like this are justified in the criticism calling it irrational or if you want 'woke'

Neo minut Spandau ballet tshirt

 

[evolved2]

This is just weird terminology, for a start.

The word "critiques" is doing the work of a huge tarp, here.

Ok.

Generally becuase they aren't aiming at her gender or skin colour.

Attacks are certainly aimed at her sex and skin color. A white male expressing her views wouldn't be nearly as controversial for the opposition.

You sound woke, now.

Thankyou.

As we know, and by "we" I include you, "racist" and "bigoted sometimes get interchanged.

Nearly always by progressives. It's quite easy to differentiate between the two, wouldn't you agree?

As we know, the main criticism by people with a certain grouping of expressed opinions is of Islam, while the "white" religions don't get that same scrutiny.

Hmmm....

By "white religions," I presume you are referring to just one, Christianity.

As an antitheist who despises both Christianity and Islam, my sincere view is that Islam receives far more protection and less scrutiny.

Which speaks to some crusty old opinions held by some plain old bigots.

What do you think of the attendances at the March for White Australia dropping off a cliff by the second go at it?

Nothing to do with the fact it's run by Nazis?

I wasn't aware of a second round of anti-mass immigration protests. Lack of advertising could have something to do with it, awareness about involvement from nazis also.

'White Australia march' is fascinating labeling.

 

[evolved2]

Or, alternatively, those people aren't woke at all, but are left wing and racist?

Nah, that couldn't be it.

They would consider themselves woke, hence the legitimacy of the thread title.

... wat?

The point of saying that Australia is a racist nation isn't to attack Australia but to say that we could be better. Why does it matter to you if other nations are racist?

That's a poor argument. Labeling any nation as racist implies others are less so. Otherwise, what is the point of singling out a nation?

Shouldn't we clean our own bedrooms before criticizing others?

Labeling Australia a racist nation is criticism of others.

Criticize arabs under the auspices of criticizing islam and yes, you're being racist.

Agreed.

Not only is this completely untrue, it's proudly and furiously so. You can apply for American citizenship whenever you like now, I think.

The Greens are treading water in an environment where many of their policies should be popular and the two main political parties are on the nose.

I'd vote One Nation before the Greens in an election held today. I think a lot of you guys are in denial.

In all seriousness now, this post is lazy. Every single point raised is generalized before you twist it into a pretzel, and in no way do you actually make a valid or even successful argument against who you're trying to criticize.

Do you think my opposition have provided valid arguments?

 

[Gethelred]

They would consider themselves woke, hence the legitimacy of the thread title.

You yourself consider yourself a centrist. Some people think the world is flat.

Just because you think something doesn't make it true.

That's a poor argument.

If it is, you could try pointing out how.

Labeling any nation as racist implies others are less so. Otherwise, what is the point of singling out a nation?

... and here's why.

Here's the argument, displayed simply:
1. A racist nation is a nation that has hierarchical structures which disadvantage minorities based on race.
2. Australia has hierarchical structures that disadvantage minorities based on race, left over from the White Australia policy and colonialism.
Therefore, Australia is a racist nation.

At no point is a second nation even mentioned, nor is it necessary.

Your response can be displayed thus:
1. All nations are racist.
2. Australia is less racist than some of those nations.
Therefore, Australia does not need to worry/do anything to confront its own racism.

Not only does your argument not touch mine, your conclusion does not really follow on from your premises.

Labeling Australia a racist nation is criticism of others.

... you're not this stupid, so I'd be delighted to know why you're pretending it.

The Greens are treading water in an environment where many of their policies should be popular and the two main political parties are on the nose.

... because the current Labor leader is the most anti-Greens leader in Australia's history, and has zero need to negotiate or compromise with them due to the existence of the Teals making them natural government.

I'd vote One Nation before the Greens in an election held today. I think a lot of you guys are in denial.

Uh-huh.

You're a deeply unserious person who will say what you think will get the biggest reaction.

Do you think my opposition have provided valid arguments?

Do you truly think you're worth it?

You used to respond at least partially in good faith. Not so much these days.

 

[evolved2]

You yourself consider yourself a centrist. Some people think the world is flat.

Just because you think something doesn't make it true.

That's how I feel about agnostics!

If it is, you could try pointing out how.

... and here's why.

Here's the argument, displayed simply:
1. A racist nation is a nation that has hierarchical structures which disadvantage minorities based on race.
2. Australia has hierarchical structures that disadvantage minorities based on race, left over from the White Australia policy and colonialism.
Therefore, Australia is a racist nation.

At no point is a second nation even mentioned, nor is it necessary.

Palestine is a racist nation. India is a racist nation. Thailand is a racist nation. Pakistan is a racist nation. Australia is a racist nation.

Your response can be displayed thus:
1. All nations are racist.
2. Australia is less racist than some of those nations.
Therefore, Australia does not need to worry/do anything to confront its own racism.

The highlighted part is a strawman.

Not only does your argument not touch mine, your conclusion does not really follow on from your premises.

... you're not this stupid, so I'd be delighted to know why you're pretending it.

A poorly worded section of my post.

... because the current Labor leader is the most anti-Greens leader in Australia's history, and has zero need to negotiate or compromise with them due to the existence of the Teals making them natural government.

Uh-huh.

I'm not joking. I'd vote One Nation before the Greens, probably second last and last on the ballot.

You're a deeply unserious person who will say what you think will get the biggest reaction.

Do you truly think you're worth it?

You can stop replying if you don't think I'm worth it.

You used to respond at least partially in good faith. Not so much these days.

You guys whittled away at the opposition until the SRP became a LW circle jerk. T'is what it is.

 

[Kram]

Out in the real world I can't remember the last time I've heard anyone say anything racist towards Indigenous Australians. We've come an unbelievable way since the 1990s when it was hard to go by one day without it happening.

Haven't been to Kalgoorlie though for a very long time though, that would be the real big test.

 

[Gethelred]

The highlighted part is a strawman.

Then tell me what you actually want me to conclude from your posturing on the racism of other nations when the prospect of our own racism is raised.

I'm not joking. I'd vote One Nation before the Greens, probably second last and last on the ballot.

You can stop replying if you don't think I'm worth it.

... have you not noticed it, evolved?

People already have stopped responding to uou. You don't get nearly the replies you used to. This forum receives similar traffic to what it always has; people are just posting on their actual issues now, whether that's religion or the Vic state gov or Albo or the Ukraine/Gaza wars instead of manufacturing reasons for left-right spats the way they used to before things flared up.

There's more actual substance for us to discuss on here than there has ever been. Only you know why you don't ever actually post on it.

 

[Gethelred]

Out in the real world I can't remember the last time I've heard anyone say anything racist towards Indigenous Australians. We've come an unbelievable way since the 1990s when it was hard to go by one day without it happening.

Haven't been to Kalgoorlie though for a very long time though, that would be the real big test.

I used to work with a security guard who was full of them.

 

[evolved2]

Then tell me what you actually want me to conclude from your posturing on the racism of other nations when the prospect of our own racism is raised.

... have you not noticed it, evolved?

People already have stopped responding to uou. You don't get nearly the replies you used to. This forum receives similar traffic to what it always has; people are just posting on their actual issues now, whether that's religion or the Vic state gov or Albo or the Ukraine/Gaza wars instead of manufacturing reasons for left-right spats the way they used to before things flared up.

There's more actual substance for us to discuss on here than there has ever been. Only you know why you don't ever actually post on it.

Are you cosplaying Agent Smith?

 

[evolved2]

Morpheus.