No Oppo Supporters General AFL discussion and other club’s news - Part 10

[PenAndPaper]

Why does anyone actually care? If we win it from 10th no one here is going to complain or not count the premiership.

AFL obviously wants 20 teams. They're getting us ready for 10 team final series.

Because teams that aren't in the top half of the ladder after 24 rounds of footy shouldn't be given a chance to win a grand final.
You're then also getting teams who will rest players in the last rounds before it when they are guaranteed a spot in the wildcards which then just defeats the whole purpose of why the AFL brought in the pre finals bye anyway.

 

[TheFourPillars]

I hate the wildcard round. I hate it. The AFL season is grueling and hard if you make the top 8 u play finals. You've earned it. It's a knee jerk reaction to what happened at the end of this year. Teams that finish outside the top 8 don't deserve to play finals. They have not earned it. Throw the bloody ladder out and just let everyone have a go at finals. Its ****ed

 

[KermitJagger]

Why does anyone actually care? If we win it from 10th no one here is going to complain or not count the premiership.

AFL obviously wants 20 teams. They're getting us ready for 10 team final series.

Bit of a faulty premise, this. I fundamentally disagree with priority picks but I'm not saying we hand back the flags we won in part because of them.

You obviously have to play within the bounds of the arena you're given, but you don't have to just accept huge changes when you haven't been given a compelling reason for the change to be introduced. Like Round 0 this introduces more issues with stats keeping, records, fairness of the draw, finals etc.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

I bet they came up with this idea after looking at their financial statement from this years finals series.
55% of the teams get to play finals. The only footy competition with greater percentage of teams playing finals is the King Island Football Association.

That's the absurdity of it all. The idea of 'wildcard' tournaments from from US competitions MLB and NFL where each has 30/32 teams across two conferences. Only division winners are guaranteed spots in the finals - with those with the highest winning records making up the wildcards. In both of those leagues you still only end up with 12 teams in the MLB making it and 14 teams in the NFL. They are about giving teams a chance who don't arbitrarily win their division but otherwise still have good records. This is rewarding less than average teams and giving them a chance to upset teams that have had better seasons. It's just a bullshit cash grab that nobody wants outside the AFL and their parasitic sports betting mates.

 

[Bugs1977]

Jesus has returned

 

[Rookie Error]

Everyone will be watching these Wildcard games I reckon as basically elimination finals I know I will

Also makes it harder for teams to win a flag 7th and 8th given they'll need to win 5 elimination games in a row.

So teams will be striving to finish top 6 for the week off. And top 4 for the double chance and the potential to only need to win 3 games over 5 weeks to win a flag versus 5 games in 5 weeks for 7th to 10th

 

[KermitJagger]

So teams will be striving to finish top 6 for the week off. And top 4 for the double chance and the potential to only need to win 3 games over 5 weeks to win a flag versus 5 games in 5 weeks for 7th to 10th

This is what I don't understand about this argument - do teams not already strive to finish higher? How many clubs are out there that can do better but are just comfortable scraping into 8th?

 

[Rookie Error]

May as well make the entire 18 team league a wild card round. AFL clearly wants to move towards the play in tournament that the NBA now runs.

NBA play in is different 7th v 8th for 7th seed 9th v 10th winner plays loser 7th v 8th for the 8th seed.

AFL wildcard no double chances 7th v 10th and 8th v 9th

 

[cryptor]

Jesus has returned

No idea what his reputation as an assistant coach is but this is still exciting. Love the Spang

 

[Atch]

The star spangled spangher!

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

Fair call Atch his tackling needs work. my view is that a role which is reliant predominantly on work rate speed and ground coverage fits in with his profile.

He's got to be willing to hunt and pressure not coral and run away. He's perfect for it athletically but not mentally.

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

That's the absurdity of it all. The idea of 'wildcard' tournaments from from US competitions MLB and NFL where each has 30/32 teams across two conferences. Only division winners are guaranteed spots in the finals - with those with the highest winning records making up the wildcards. In both of those leagues you still only end up with 12 teams in the MLB making it and 14 teams in the NFL. They are about giving teams a chance who don't arbitrarily win their division but otherwise still have good records. This is rewarding less than average teams and giving them a chance to upset teams that have had better seasons. It's just a bullshit cash grab that nobody wants outside the AFL and their parasitic sports betting mates.

Yep, NFL you have good teams playing off in wildcard matches, it's totally different to this farce. You would have 2-3 teams in the same conference with good records who deserve to be in the playoffs going against others in the same boat. Your unlucky your in a strong division is all you can take from that. What the AFL is doing is about rewarding mediocrity and is a complete circus.

 

[Sturty]

Andrew Dillon is an absolute top tier W-Anchor

 

[unitedhawk2]

Because professional sport is about rewarding achievement not celebrating mediocrity. If you finish 10th after 24 rounds you don't deserve any kind of shot at winning the flag.

Another perspective would be that if you finish 10th and then win five consecutive finals, beating higher-ranked teams in 'away' finals all along the way, you absolutely deserve to win the flag - perhaps even more so than a team placed 8th in the pre-2026 finals scenarios, who only needed to win four consecutive 'away' finals following the luxury of a bye.

 

[Sixpence]

NBA play in is different 7th v 8th for 7th seed 9th v 10th winner plays loser 7th v 8th for the 8th seed.

AFL wildcard no double chances 7th v 10th and 8th v 9th

Yeh, in NBA, 7th and 8th still have an earned advantage. In this garbage system, 10th can jag a finals spot with like 3-4 less wins. It's a ****ing joke.

 

[eldorado]

Another perspective would be that if you finish 10th and then win five consecutive finals, beating higher-ranked teams in 'away' finals all along the way, you absolutely deserve to win the flag - perhaps even more so than a team placed 8th in the pre-2026 finals scenarios, who only needed to win four consecutive 'away' finals following the luxury of a bye.

Great, let's give all 18 teams a chance to go on this undefeated streak, and get rid of the concept of final eight entirely.

I'm with everybody else, the wild card is complete ****ing bullshit

 

[unitedhawk2]

Great, let's give all 18 teams a chance to go on this undefeated streak, and get rid of the concept of final eight entirely.

I'm with everybody else, the wild card is complete ****ing bullshit

I wonder whether similar arguments were being made when the Finals were expanded to 8 teams - from 5 teams, if memory serves me right?

 

[PenAndPaper]

 

[Changa10]

That's the absurdity of it all. The idea of 'wildcard' tournaments from from US competitions MLB and NFL where each has 30/32 teams across two conferences. Only division winners are guaranteed spots in the finals - with those with the highest winning records making up the wildcards. In both of those leagues you still only end up with 12 teams in the MLB making it and 14 teams in the NFL. They are about giving teams a chance who don't arbitrarily win their division but otherwise still have good records. This is rewarding less than average teams and giving them a chance to upset teams that have had better seasons. It's just a bullshit cash grab that nobody wants outside the AFL and their parasitic sports betting mates.

Agree Ned.

"Wildcard" works fine in NFL because of the way they are set up in Divisions & Conferences. AFL is nothing like that......YET!

In the NFL (I don't follow baseball at all, so wouldn't know) you have 16 teams in each conference. The best 7 out of these 16 teams in each conference make playoffs. That's 43% of teams. They are also, generally, the teams with the best record. So, effectively if you did a conference ladder, they will normally be the 7 teams with the best records. I understand each divisional winner make the finals and there could be one that makes the playoffs with a worse record than the 8th placed team, but that's how they do it, by rewarding their division winners.

AFL are moving to 55% (52% if Tasmania enter in 2028) of teams making finals. To term these new finals as a wildcard is BS, it is just extending finals to 10 teams.

I'm in the camp of, if the AFL are looking for more revenue, then just add in one more full round. Not this American sport BS that doesn't fit our league structure whatsoever.

 

[eldorado]

I wonder whether similar arguments were being made when the Finals were expanded to 8 teams - from 5 teams, if memory serves me right?

From 4 out 12 to 5out of 12 early in the 70s, then 6 briefly...then 8.

I think it was originally 8 out of 16 teams, which many thought was dodgy enough...half qualifying for knock-out was a bit 'participation prize' for a lot of us old farts... (EDIT: 8 out of 15 from 1994 to 1997, when Port joined)

Having more than half the teams qualify for knock-out round is even worse...it kind of defeats the purpose of having a rigourous H&A season at all.

 

[Nugett]

Another perspective would be that if you finish 10th and then win five consecutive finals, beating higher-ranked teams in 'away' finals all along the way, you absolutely deserve to win the flag - perhaps even more so than a team placed 8th in the pre-2026 finals scenarios, who only needed to win four consecutive 'away' finals following the luxury of a bye.

It’s very unlikely. If anything it means games are going to be over by half time, in the following matches.

 

[unitedhawk2]

Agree Ned.

"Wildcard" works fine in NFL because of the way they are set up in Divisions & Conferences. AFL is nothing like that......YET!

In the NFL (I don't follow baseball at all, so wouldn't know) you have 20 teams in each conference. The best 7 out of these 20 teams in each conference make playoffs. That's 35% of teams. They are also, generally, the teams with the best record. So, effectively if you did a conference ladder, they will normally be the 7 teams with the best records. I understand each divisional winner make the finals and there could be one that makes the playoffs with a worse record than the 8th placed team, but that's how they do it, by rewarding their division winners.

AFL are moving to 55% (52% if Tasmania enter in 2028) of teams making finals. To term these new finals as a wildcard is BS, it is just extending finals to 10 teams.

I'm in the camp of, if the AFL are looking for more revenue, then just add in one more full round. Not this American sport BS that doesn't fit our league structure whatsoever.

16, not 20, teams in the two NFL conferences - your quoted percentages would change accordingly.

 

[Nugett]

I wonder whether similar arguments were being made when the Finals were expanded to 8 teams - from 5 teams, if memory serves me right?

I wasn’t a fan of how the final 6 played out. From memory week 1 was
1 vs 2 3vs 6 4 vs 5 the losers of 3,4,5 and 6 was eliminated
Week 2 I think was the winner from the 1vs2 would play the higher ranked winner from 3,4,5 and 6 in a qualifying final the winner of which would receive a bye and be straight into the grand final following week, while the loser would play the winner from the loser of 1vs 2 that would play an elimination final against the lowest ranked winner from the first week.

It was just too complex of a system.

Compare that to the previous top 5, it was much easier to follow, and awarded the teams that finished higher.

 

[H00t]

Another perspective would be that if you finish 10th and then win five consecutive finals, beating higher-ranked teams in 'away' finals all along the way, you absolutely deserve to win the flag - perhaps even more so than a team placed 8th in the pre-2026 finals scenarios, who only needed to win four consecutive 'away' finals following the luxury of a bye.

Has there ever been a team that finished 10th that would even come close to winning 5 games in a row like that?

All this does is make it pretty much impossible for a team that finishes 7-8 to make a prelim or grand final.

In the last 3 years 2 teams have made a prelim from 7th or 8th. Under this system that’s going to be near impossible. That’s about the only change. 9th or 10th teams aren’t going to threaten anybody outside of a random win against the 7th or 8th team.

 

[Mashy]

The way I see it, wildcard finals will really hurt the teams that finish 7 and 8. I suspect teams that are trying to win a premiership will be seeing top 6 as "making the finals". Very difficult for teams 7 and 8 to progress past the wildcard round, coming up against opponents that are playing at home, fresh from a bye, and finished higher on the ladder.