Society/Culture Woke. Can you tell real from parody? - Part 2 - NO SLEEP TILL BROOKLYN

[Kram]

I reckon it doesn't matter what your race is, if you grow up in a big family where one of the parents is long gone, nobody ever works, fights and crime is just the norm of course it's going to be bloody hard to get away from.

It's a situation far more common with Indigenous Australians because of very poor treatment in the past. But that is long gone history.

 

[JackOutback]

Yes the loop is self feeding and when its all someone knows from growing up yes it's not definitely not easy but at some point you have just have to help yourself. Cant rely on the government to do it. And certainly not woke people on the internet.

That is literally the bootstraps argument. But, what we know is, a small number will make it, a larger number won't, and any change will be dragged out over generations. What we do know is that support, a social safety net, programs that encourage study and work, will get more people exactly where you want them to be. You can deride it for being woke and kumbaya but why would you deliberately take the long road? And why should the governments take the long road when past governments were directly responsible for where we are?

 

[sr36]

I reckon it doesn't matter what your race is, if you grow up in a big family where one of the parents is long gone, nobody ever works, fights and crime is just the norm of course it's going to be bloody hard to get away from.

It's a situation far more common with Indigenous Australians because of very poor treatment in the past. But that is long gone history.

I don't think many are that far apart on these issues despite the divisive rhetoric and discussions.

The big issue is that a much larger percentage of Aboriginals are stuck in an intergenerational unemployment and poverty trap. The discriminatory laws are gone, as are a fair bit of the blatantly racist attitudes, but they've left the poverty trap that many are stuck in. The question is how to tackle it.

 

[Kram]

That is literally the bootstraps argument. But, what we know is, a small number will make it, a larger number won't, and any change will be dragged out over generations. What we do know is that support, a social safety net, programs that encourage study and work, will get more people exactly where you want them to be. You can deride it for being woke and kumbaya but why would you deliberately take the long road? And why should the governments take the long road when past governments were directly responsible for where we are?

We have these mate. Could there be more of it? Yes.

I like the idea of the Indigenous school in Midland, my sister has worked there as a teacher and says it's brilliant. Put money into more.

But at some point you do also have to take some responsibility yourself as well. Never going to get someone come around, knock on the door and say here is a job bro. There are opportunities available out there to be taken, the step of going after it when it is unfamiliar is the toughest bit.

 

[Kram]

I don't think many are that far apart on these issues despite the divisive rhetoric and discussions.

The big issue is that a much larger percentage of Aboriginals are stuck in an intergenerational unemployment and poverty trap. The discriminatory laws are gone, as are a fair bit of the blatantly racist attitudes, but they've left the poverty trap that many are stuck in. The question is how to tackle it.

Someone actually gets it.

 

[JackOutback]

Someone actually gets it.

I mean, his point is my point. Aboriginal people are disproportionately trapped in poverty so more needs to be done in that area. And your point isn’t that far from mine. Invest in things like education and you will see better results. I never said there’s no such thing as personal responsibility, we need to provide opportunity and some people find even that too much.

 

[Kram]

The racist country thing really is just a self serving political statement from phoneys that don't actually give 2 knobs of wallaby manure about Indigenous Australians.

Racism still exists but is now relatively rare and not so much of a problem. Past injustices have put people behind but It's about how we move on forward now.

 

[Kram]

Look it is tough, there's a little black fella down the road from me youngest of 10 kids. Know him pretty well, as a human there isn't anything wrong with him at all. But given what he's been surrounded with growing up the cards are stacked against him big time.

 

[evolved2]

Attitudes towards Africans are off the charts in many Asian countries.

and Indians.

 

[evolved2]

that is beyond ****ed

Why?

 

[sr36]

Why?

I think it's ****ed.

Neither Greens or One Nation are plausible governments, so a vote for them is to shift politics on the issues they stand for.

A vote for Greens might be because of environmental concerns, a protest vote over Gaza, or to do with opposing corporate power.

One Nation stand for nothing other than anti-immigration. And I think it's pretty ****ed if that's the big issue that you're voting on - it's fabricated culture wars shite - or racism/cultural superioty.

 

[evolved2]

I think it's ****ed.

Neither Greens or One Nation are plausible governments, so a vote for them is to shift politics on the issues they stand for.

A vote for Greens might be because of environmental concerns, a protest vote over Gaza, or to do with opposing corporate power.

One Nation stand for nothing other than anti-immigration. And I think it's pretty ****ed if that's the big issue that you're voting on - it's fabricated culture wars shite - or racism/cultural superioty.

The Greens have morphed into a party of activists that will most likely work their way into irrelevance. Good riddance.

Opposing mass immigration is a strong selling point in 2025.

 

[sr36]

The Greens have morphed into a party of activists that will most likely work their way into irrelevance. Good riddance.

It's always been a party of activists. If anything they've morphed in the other direction as their influence has grown and they've broadened their political stances and views. There wouldn't be as much angst about them if they were still basically just the party of environmental activism.

I understand why a lot of people are opposed to the Greens - but I'm talking about a reason to vote for one of the two small parties, which isn't to do with opposition to the other party - it's to do with preferencing what they're viewed as standing for.

 

[evolved2]

It's always been a party of activists. If anything they've morphed in the other direction as their influence has grown and they've broadened their political stances and views.

Narrowed, not broadened.

https://www.news.com.au/national/po...m/news-story/0f70e3e76e444557d1eb86da22b78cda

I understand why a lot of people are opposed to the Greens - but I'm talking about a reason to vote for one of the two small parties, which isn't to do with opposition to the other party - it's to do with preferencing what they're viewed as standing for.

I support environment action, female, LGB, secularism, and workers rights.

One Nation are better, which is why I'd vote them second last.

 

[sr36]

Narrowed, not broadened.

https://www.news.com.au/national/po...m/news-story/0f70e3e76e444557d1eb86da22b78cda

That's part of the broadening. They now stand for and against a range of issues, rather than being focussed on environmental protection.

I support environment action, female, LGB, secularism, and workers rights.

One Nation are better, which is why I'd vote them second last.

Yeah, preferencing is a different story to the primary vote.

I wouldn't call preferencing One Nation above Greens ****ed - even though I'd never do it. That's just being opposed to the Greens stances. I'd call a primary vote for one nation ****ed.

 

[evolved2]

That's part of the broadening. They now stand for and against a range of issues, rather than being focussed on environmental protection.

Yes, and the contradiction in values is amusing to me. I don't see how anyone can vote Greens and be a supporter of LGB and womens rights.

There's a lotta male rights activists here, especially among the mod team.

Yeah, preferencing is a different story to the primary vote.

Why? Either way, it's a preference.

I wouldn't call preferencing One Nation above Greens ****ed - even though I'd never do it. That's just being opposed to the Greens stances. I'd call a primary vote for one nation ****ed.

Why?

 

[JackOutback]

The Greens have morphed into a party of activists that will most likely work their way into irrelevance. Good riddance.

Opposing mass immigration is a strong selling point in 2025.

The Greens’ primary aim is tackling a real issue backed by science, One Nation believe in an issue that exists in their own racist minds, devoid of all context.

 

[Carringbush2010]

That's part of the broadening. They now stand for and against a range of issues, rather than being focussed on environmental protection.

Having read the article, it seems the 'broadening' has led to an impasse inside the Greens.

There seems to be elements (Hutton and as claimed others) that are concerned about the rights of women, seems to allude that the rights of transgender people are at odds for the rights of women.

He says in the article that he's all for rights of transgender and LBGT in general. Seems other Greens don't agree that he does because he refused to delete posts of other facebookers that 'bioligical women are women blah blah'.

Seems that those comments and him not deleting them have hit a nerve.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Yes, and the contradiction in values is amusing to me. I don't see how anyone can vote Greens and be a supporter of LGB and womens rights.

There's a lotta male rights activists here, especially among the mod team.

Why? Either way, it's a preference.

Why?

Disagree,

I don't see any reason why anyone can't be a supporter of both, I noticed you left out the T - any reason?

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Welcome to the great unwokening of Hollywood! Shame no one can be bothered to turn up | Jason Okundaye

Sydney Sweeney has become the poster child of a predicted rightwing cultural domination. So why is no one watching her films, asks Guardian assistant newsletter editor Jason Okundaye

www.theguardian.com

 

[evolved2]

Disagree,

I don't see any reason why anyone can't be a supporter of both, I noticed you left out the T - any reason?

LGB are sexual preferences while TQ etc are gender identity. I'm more interested in discussing issues surrounding sexual preference than gender identity because I don't really understand gender identity.

Trans discussions have been covered pretty thoroughly in this thread already (and elsewhere) so I don't wish to go there again. I strongly believe they are valid and should have rights.

 

[Carringbush2010]

LGB are sexual preferences while TQ etc are gender identity. I'm more interested in discussing issues surrounding sexual preference than gender identity because I don't really understand gender identity.

Trans discussions have been covered pretty thoroughly in this thread already (and elsewhere) so I don't wish to go there again. I strongly believe they are valid and should have rights.

Ok, so what you're really saying is not LGB but TQ is at odds with women's rights?

 

[evolved2]

Ok, so what you're really saying is not LGB but TQ is at odds with women's rights?

It doesn't have to be that way, but it often is. Send me a PM if you want to discuss the topic further

 

[evolved2]

The Greens’ primary aim is tackling a real issue backed by science, One Nation believe in an issue that exists in their own racist minds, devoid of all context.

I presume you're a Greens voter.

 

[JackOutback]

I presume you're a Greens voter.

Sometimes. Sometimes not. What I’m not is a racist, so I’m never a Onw Nation voter.