Bigman’s Training Reports

[Mutineer]

Is Edwards any good or is he just new? Same with Dowling, who ended up looking way out of his depth once brought in.

I never ever saw Dowling as so obviously out of his depth as you did, sure his performances didn't jump off the page but he didn't do too much wrong and probably deserved more opportunities to show us what he's got at AFL level. I would have liked to see him given a decent go on the wing with his top end endurance.

 

[Mutineer]

Edwards is good. Great size, excellent penetrating kick. Hopefully comes on this year even more.

First year at the club it looked like Oscar Ryan would be the first the debut of the 2, last year Charlie looked much more likely.

And Edwards is deceptively quick when he puts the afterburners on.

 

[Ciao Giacomo]

Is Edwards any good or is he just new? Same with Dowling, who ended up looking way out of his depth once brought in.

I hold more hope that Charlie will become a best 23 player. I was disappointed that he never had a run in the AFL last year but our coaches preferred Bond and Bondy was pretty solid when given a chance.

I like Billy but I suspect he is a “tweener”. Not strong enough to make the inside midfield rotations, not quick enough to play on the wing. I hope he proves me wrong. He played predominantly on the wing against the Kangaroos and I can’t forget the moment he dropped his head. Fortunately he was hit high, won a free and kicked a goal but it was a very bad look.

 

[Mutineer]

More players added to SANFL side today that wold need to find amatuer sides

SANFL: Crows add four to SANFL list

The Club announced the recruits on Thursday

www.afc.com.au

Tom Bell's the interesting one, tall lightly built KPD and only turned 19 last month ...this has to have been instigated by our WA scout methinks given he's only one year out of the U18 comps.

 

[BRL121]

Dowling’s one AFL game where he got 14 touches and kicked 2 goals? If that’s way out of his depth, can’t wait to see once he feels comfortable in the team.

Did you watch the match?
His spud opponent played a career-best game and Dowling has no idea how to defend.

I do like Dowling's goalkicking, though.

 

[Golumless]

Our midfield philosophies haven't changed since Campo had Thommo, Dangerfield, Sloane and VB running around. The same Campo who dropped Lever and brought back Mackay for the finals.

Lets begin here: Try Phil Walsh. Though, in truth, he just put into words what every club does. "Next man up". The league tossed the idea of trying kids out on a whim in the same bin as the stay at home key forward, or the ruck who just provided ruck work as it professionalized.

Mind you, and this is a different conversation, the last 10 years have shown that us idiots rated Mackay waaaayyyyy to harsly as a footballer.

Sorry but this couldn't be more wrong.

We run with a pecking order (based on years served) model rather than looking at how well rounded people's games are.

Otherwise we wouldn't have flubbed about with a cooked Sloane, Laird, Keays, Crouch and now Berry in there for so long.

No, we just run a depth chart for each position which is rather rigid once we hit the start of the season. We know the year served model doesn't hold up, because we've seen when we've had a prospect we rate highly, we've typically given them a lot of rope under Nicks and co. Whether it's Curtin not getting dropped this year on the half forward flank before moving to wing, us being willing to have Worrell stuck in the 2s to fit in Max Michaelanny or even this year where we tried to make Draper as a sub work if we have a kid we like, we're pretty eager to get them involved (within reason).

You only have to go back a couple of years to see a 3rd year Schoenberg and a 2nd year Berry used as starting inside midfielders instead of whoever was the most experienced potential options at that point. Most of the "years served" nonsense is just paranoia (yes, Neil Craig is hiding in the nearby hedges controlling everything), and it comes from that most prospects are worse then the current veterans, nor is there any value in getting them AFL time.

We also used midfield stats in the SANFL to justify bringing in Murphy ahead of guys like Dowling and Edwards.

That's also why Curtin wasn't trusted in there during our ill fated finals campaign, despite our midfield being torn to shreds.

Nope, Murphy was just the next man up in our small forward depth chart. The midfield stats meant nothing, as they haven't meant anything for anyone else. Lo and behold, he was delisted this year, to show just how much your career is screwed if you find yourself in the SANFL midfield slots.

Curtin form line had faded in the weeks prior to those finals. However, most of those selections were panic. We should have just committed to the five man midfield unit we ran all year and backed them to fix it. We didn't and we lost without giving a whelp. After all, the one of the player we trusted was Zac ****ing Taylor just to show how much our coaching group had lost the plot. Laird you can at least make the case it had some basis in reality, seeing this was a midfield group who needed a floor raiser and that is what Lairdy is. However, it was something that had to happen in round 15 instead of doubling down on Berry. If only we valued years served in our midfield selections, but c'est la vie.

It's similar for the half back position where we gift spots to 29 year olds with middling outputs who can't play anywhere else.

Unfortunately that's how the club rolls.

That's how professional sports roll. The only thing that matters at the selection level is winning the next game. The future is what list management is for.

No matter what situation a club finds themselves in.

In recent years the development of inside midfielders has followed a clear pattern.

Players who are seen as future first choice inside midfielders are played as inside midfielders both in the AFL and SANFL. For example, Soligo and Draper. There was a similar story for Berry and Schoenberg even though they were far from certain to become a first choice inside mid in the AFL.

Whilst it would be nice for our coaches to be proven wrong, neither Taylor, Pedlar, Edwards or Dowling are seen as potentially A grade inside midfielders. It is therefore logical for these players to develop skills in the SANFL so they can move seemlessly into the AFL in the same role (Dowling-wing, Taylor-small forward, Pedlar-small forward, Edwards-defender).

We follow how the league develops kids who can't impact on the inside day 1. Noting that playing a rookie in an inside midfield role early in an AFL career is purely for short term pay-off.

The timing is the most important part, not that we split AFL/SANFL time. Those three cases in Soligo/Berry/Schoenberg we had graduated them to an AFL role within their first year. We've seen something similar with Curtin, though a bit slower and most likely due to a poorly timed injury allowing Keane/Worrell to become one of the best intercept pairings in the league. Draper will probably also follow this path and have a position locked up in the early parts of 2026, seeing we really didn't have a plan once the sub idea failed and that his back didn't need the management we were worried about.

Effectively it goes back to what I said about the midfield role being a dead zone. If you are rated as a genuine option for inside mid, you are quickly graduated through the SANFL and you are locked in somewhere at AFL level in your second year. If you're not, you're pushed elsewhere to see if you can win a spot in time, and if you are a prospect used as a midfielder, you're not seen as an option (and are likely a delisting candidate).

Kind of, I am not sure how we see Zac Taylor. We definitely don't think he's an A-grade midfielder in the short term, but the fact he was our panic answer does raise an eyebrow (as much as I want our coaching group cruficied for that decision in particular). I'd be very surprised if we saw Dowling or Pedlar as a midfield option, and Edwards probably not in the short term with 4+ years being too hard to predict.

Most teams utilise 4 main inside midfielders (excluding ruckmen). With the retirement of Matty Crouch I believe the players competing for the four spots are Dawson, Rankine, Soligo, Peatling, Draper and Berry. I expect Rachele and Curtin to spend some time as inside mids but mostly play as a small forward (Rachele) and on the wing (Curtin).

Adding Pedlar, Taylor, Dowling, Edwards and possibly a SPP to our inside midfield rotations in the AFL will be a very innovative tactic.

We ran a 5 man unit last year, and we don't have the high-end talent to justify a change down to a four man unit. Working around that, my expectation is the main three slots are Dawson/Soligo/Curtin with Peatling/Rankine as the roationals. I don't see us giving Rachele any considerable midfield minutes seeing there is no point with Rankine being used. I also don't see Draper being used as an inside midfielder this campaign, outside of the occasional cameo/emergency CBA where we've ****ed up our rotations. The only real question is the Curtin slot, though I expect he'll win one of the main roles by the end of preseason.

Everyone (myself included) has had the idea at some point to expand the midfield rotations and try to get 6-7 main midfielders. Any time you see a team drift into this territory, you are quick to see them course correct to a 4-5 man unit. It doesn't work, and it doesn't work because it goes against one of the most fundamental tenants of football. To win football games, you need your best players occupying the positions they do the most damage for as long as possible. Adding 6+ midfield units is not an innovative tactic, it's completely nonviable. In a way, I think versatility needs to be treated as a necessary evil, instead of a good thing. You want your inside midfielder to play other positions because should they get replaced in the depth chart, you're not sitting there with a guy you've invested 120 games in playing SANFL kind of deal.

 

[The Smith Revolution]

I have watched a lot of Edward’s. He needs to get tougher. Like AFL standard tough.

 

[StonesThrow]

Dowling’s one AFL game where he got 14 touches and kicked 2 goals? If that’s way out of his depth, can’t wait to see once he feels comfortable in the team.

Those stats flattered him big time. Go and watch the replay outside of the two set shots (one was a soft free), he was pretty far off the pace when he was near the ball. Draper was as well to be fair. Not writing him off, just think there's a bit of shiny new toy about him.

 

[cleanhands]

Lets begin here: Try Phil Walsh. Though, in truth, he just put into words what every club does. "Next man up". The league tossed the idea of trying kids out on a whim in the same bin as the stay at home key forward, or the ruck who just provided ruck work as it professionalized.

Mind you, and this is a different conversation, the last 10 years have shown that us idiots rated Mackay waaaayyyyy to harsly as a footballer.



No, we just run a depth chart for each position which is rather rigid once we hit the start of the season. We know the year served model doesn't hold up, because we've seen when we've had a prospect we rate highly, we've typically given them a lot of rope under Nicks and co. Whether it's Curtin not getting dropped this year on the half forward flank before moving to wing, us being willing to have Worrell stuck in the 2s to fit in Max Michaelanny or even this year where we tried to make Draper as a sub work if we have a kid we like, we're pretty eager to get them involved (within reason).

You only have to go back a couple of years to see a 3rd year Schoenberg and a 2nd year Berry used as starting inside midfielders instead of whoever was the most experienced potential options at that point. Most of the "years served" nonsense is just paranoia (yes, Neil Craig is hiding in the nearby hedges controlling everything), and it comes from that most prospects are worse then the current veterans, nor is there any value in getting them AFL time.



Nope, Murphy was just the next man up in our small forward depth chart. The midfield stats meant nothing, as they haven't meant anything for anyone else. Lo and behold, he was delisted this year, to show just how much your career is screwed if you find yourself in the SANFL midfield slots.

Curtin form line had faded in the weeks prior to those finals. However, most of those selections were panic. We should have just committed to the five man midfield unit we ran all year and backed them to fix it. We didn't and we lost without giving a whelp. After all, the one of the player we trusted was Zac ****ing Taylor just to show how much our coaching group had lost the plot. Laird you can at least make the case it had some basis in reality, seeing this was a midfield group who needed a floor raiser and that is what Lairdy is. However, it was something that had to happen in round 15 instead of doubling down on Berry. If only we valued years served in our midfield selections, but c'est la vie.



That's how professional sports roll. The only thing that matters at the selection level is winning the next game. The future is what list management is for.

No matter what situation a club finds themselves in.



We follow how the league develops kids who can't impact on the inside day 1. Noting that playing a rookie in an inside midfield role early in an AFL career is purely for short term pay-off.

The timing is the most important part, not that we split AFL/SANFL time. Those three cases in Soligo/Berry/Schoenberg we had graduated them to an AFL role within their first year. We've seen something similar with Curtin, though a bit slower and most likely due to a poorly timed injury allowing Keane/Worrell to become one of the best intercept pairings in the league. Draper will probably also follow this path and have a position locked up in the early parts of 2026, seeing we really didn't have a plan once the sub idea failed and that his back didn't need the management we were worried about.

Effectively it goes back to what I said about the midfield role being a dead zone. If you are rated as a genuine option for inside mid, you are quickly graduated through the SANFL and you are locked in somewhere at AFL level in your second year. If you're not, you're pushed elsewhere to see if you can win a spot in time, and if you are a prospect used as a midfielder, you're not seen as an option (and are likely a delisting candidate).

Kind of, I am not sure how we see Zac Taylor. We definitely don't think he's an A-grade midfielder in the short term, but the fact he was our panic answer does raise an eyebrow (as much as I want our coaching group cruficied for that decision in particular). I'd be very surprised if we saw Dowling or Pedlar as a midfield option, and Edwards probably not in the short term with 4+ years being too hard to predict.




We ran a 5 man unit last year, and we don't have the high-end talent to justify a change down to a four man unit. Working around that, my expectation is the main three slots are Dawson/Soligo/Curtin with Peatling/Rankine as the roationals. I don't see us giving Rachele any considerable midfield minutes seeing there is no point with Rankine being used. I also don't see Draper being used as an inside midfielder this campaign, outside of the occasional cameo/emergency CBA where we've ****ed up our rotations. The only real question is the Curtin slot, though I expect he'll win one of the main roles by the end of preseason.

Everyone (myself included) has had the idea at some point to expand the midfield rotations and try to get 6-7 main midfielders. Any time you see a team drift into this territory, you are quick to see them course correct to a 4-5 man unit. It doesn't work, and it doesn't work because it goes against one of the most fundamental tenants of football. To win football games, you need your best players occupying the positions they do the most damage for as long as possible. Adding 6+ midfield units is not an innovative tactic, it's completely nonviable. In a way, I think versatility needs to be treated as a necessary evil, instead of a good thing. You want your inside midfielder to play other positions because should they get replaced in the depth chart, you're not sitting there with a guy you've invested 120 games in playing SANFL kind of deal.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Don't ask me, as don’t read long posts.

Communicating concisely is underrated...

 

[Coopers]

Is Edwards any good or is he just new? Same with Dowling, who ended up looking way out of his depth once brought in.

Same draft as Curtin, right? Not that many picks behind him really.

If he's a bust, that's terrible of us.

 

[Danger in Texas]

Same draft as Curtin, right? Not that many picks behind him really.

If he's a bust, that's terrible of us.

Curtin - pick 8
Cheddar - pick 21

Still confident Cheddar can succeed if given the chance

 

[Syd Crow]

 

[rubbers0ul]

I never ever saw Dowling as so obviously out of his depth as you did, sure his performances didn't jump off the page but he didn't do too much wrong and probably deserved more opportunities to show us what he's got at AFL level. I would have liked to see him given a decent go on the wing with his top end endurance.

Played a defensive wing role vs geelong, shut out Dempsey, did lots of unrewarded defensive running, didn’t get sucked into the contest, protected the grass out the back and still got dropped

 

[Ciao Giacomo]

Played a defensive wing role vs geelong, shut out Dempsey, did lots of unrewarded defensive running, didn’t get sucked into the contest, protected the grass out the back and still got dropped

??????? 2024 or 2025?

Dowling didn’t play against Geelong this year and Dempsey was very handy that day.

Billy played against the Kangas this year and his main opponent appeared to be Dylan Stephens (based on watching the match on the tellie).

Billy did play against the Cats at Potato Park in 2024.

 

[adelaidecrows]

Is Edwards any good or is he just new? Same with Dowling, who ended up looking way out of his depth once brought in.

Bit unfair on Dowling though.

His debut year was brilliant. Nicks in all his wisdom basnishes the kid to the Sanfl the following year instead of giving him a run and pumping more games into him, only brings him in against North when we were clearly beginning to flail as a side and he was asked to do some tagging defensive crap on some some of their mids who clearly got off the chain because we as a whole side were playing like crap. Thats on Nicks 1000% not Dowling.

 

[adelaidecrows]

I never ever saw Dowling as so obviously out of his depth as you did, sure his performances didn't jump off the page but he didn't do too much wrong and probably deserved more opportunities to show us what he's got at AFL level. I would have liked to see him given a decent go on the wing with his top end endurance.

Dowling proved he was up to standard with awesome showings in his debute year. That game against North is an unfair assessment of what he brings.

Has played a total of 10 AFL games.
Kicked 6 AFL goals in those games and averages 16.5 possessions a game. Thats not out of his depth. Thats Nicks being an arseh*le at selection.

Nicks should be absolutely hauled over the coals for his treatment of Dowling. How the hell he holds a player out like this with our midfield issues. He was far more ready than Draper was this year and only played 1 game. Terrible and damning indictment on Nicks at the selection table.

 

[BRL121]

Bit unfair on Dowling though.

His debut year was brilliant. Nicks in all his wisdom basnishes the kid to the Sanfl the following year instead of giving him a run and pumping more games into him, only brings him in against North when we were clearly beginning to flail as a side and he was asked to do some tagging defensive crap on some some of their mids who clearly got off the chain because we as a whole side were playing like crap. Thats on Nicks 1000% not Dowling.

Rubbish. Dowling played wing on Stephens who is a spud, but who had his best ever game. Dowling didn't have any defence to his game.

 

[adelaidecrows]

Rubbish. Dowling played wing on Stephens who is a spud, but who had his best ever game. Dowling didn't have any defence to his game.

cmon man. you surely have a better assessment than blaming a kid in only his 10th game and first game for the year for our North performance. Need I remind you we went on to get flogged by Collingwood and Hawthorn in the finals when Dowling wasnt there. So its not a great take to blame him.

You are aware that Stephens is an 81 game player and you are demanding a one and only selection of a player for the year in just their 10th game of football is going to stop Stephens? For such a spud, Stephens nearly averaged 18 disposals per game in a losing side. My guess is you just have no clue about stephens other than he plays for North. Also when other team mates arent filling their role and it turns over, you dont think North players will be free?

So the big footy catch cry on the crows board is

pump games into kids, but only the kids we say so and our say so is only those from the top end of the draft. The rest need to get 40 possessions in the sanfl every week, prove themselves in every position and be ****ing superstars when they come into the AFL side with no flaws to the game from their very first game.

Dowling deadset should have played nearly every game for us this year. Should have been playing instead of Taylor and Draper.

 

[StonesThrow]

Bit unfair on Dowling though.

His debut year was brilliant. Nicks in all his wisdom basnishes the kid to the Sanfl the following year instead of giving him a run and pumping more games into him, only brings him in against North when we were clearly beginning to flail as a side and he was asked to do some tagging defensive crap on some some of their mids who clearly got off the chain because we as a whole side were playing like crap. Thats on Nicks 1000% not Dowling.

I think you're searching for reasons. Anyway we'll see in time I guess. Happy to give him more time to prove himself next year.

 

[adelaidecrows]

I think you're searching for reasons. Anyway we'll see in time I guess. Happy to give him more time to prove himself next year.

I think of the criticism of Dowling not by you but as q culture of the board is we want Draper in the side and a shiny new experienced X factor toy. Anything less is absolute failure and I think we look at kids like Dowling, Edwards and go they are trash as default without really even getting a good look at them.

I think Dowling has all the hallmarks of a future leader and 200 game player.

 

[StonesThrow]

I think of the criticism of Dowling not by you but as q culture of the board is we want Draper in the side and a shiny new experienced X factor toy. Anything less is absolute failure and I think we look at kids like Dowling, Edwards and go they are trash as default without really even getting a good look at them.

I think Dowling has all the hallmarks of a future leader and 200 game player.

I think almost no one looks at Dowling and Edwards as trash by default. Some of us are trying to view their performances objectively while still in context of their experience level.

 

[adelaidecrows]

I think almost no one looks at Dowling and Edwards as trash by default. Some of us are trying to view their performances objectively while still in context of their experience level.

I get that and as I said its not you and there are some reasonable positions to take. but I had one response to my previous post that wrote him off as having no defense to his game and some potato North player had apparently the best game of his career. That was a blatant write off because said North player had played 70 more games, equaled or bettered his game output from that game multiple times throughout the season in losing sides. So said potato is not a potato. And to somehow expect a neglected 9 game player at the time to come in and be this difference maker on an experienced player while happily accepting Drapers incredibly shit output in every game he played plus Curtins shit that he dished up at the beginning of the year smacks of double standard and merely making shit up to suit a narrative.

Thats what is annoying.

For all we know, had Nicks pumped games into Edwards and Dowling this year we may actually have been better for it come the end of the year. Next year we may not even be talking about selling the farm for an x factor mid.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Dowling proved he was up to standard with awesome showings in his debute year. That game against North is an unfair assessment of what he brings.

Has played a total of 10 AFL games.
Kicked 6 AFL goals in those games and averages 16.5 possessions a game. Thats not out of his depth. Thats Nicks being an arseh*le at selection.

Nicks should be absolutely hauled over the coals for his treatment of Dowling. How the hell he holds a player out like this with our midfield issues. He was far more ready than Draper was this year and only played 1 game. Terrible and damning indictment on Nicks at the selection table.

Yep, another Newchurch having his career curtailed by Nicks .....it's never on the player is it

Once again, the fatal mistake of looking at what a player does ball in hand .....completely overlooking the other 90 minutes of a game, when a player doesn't have the ball ....which is equally important in today's structured game

 

[WaynesWorld19]

I think of the criticism of Dowling not by you but as q culture of the board is we want Draper in the side and a shiny new experienced X factor toy. Anything less is absolute failure and I think we look at kids like Dowling, Edwards and go they are trash as default without really even getting a good look at them.

I think Dowling has all the hallmarks of a future leader and 200 game player.

WOW !!!

I don't think anyone has lambasted Dowling .....most keen observers would say, he still has deficiencies in his game .....however you're saying he's ready to go, and should have been played in front of Draper / Taylor .....lets not get caught up in positions huh, maybe he could have replaced ROB

Coaches don't want to hold any player back .....Worrell AND Draper have publicly expressed gratitude and acknowledged areas of the game they were deficient in

Cream always rises to the top .....good players always play AFL ....hardly any have been delisted by the Crows and had any sort of career

I know who I'd rather pump games into .....Draper, everyday of the week