MazeEscape Werewolf Proof of Concept - Village Wins

[WAbulldog]

It was MP wasnt it.

Nah MC

 

[Bovo]

Think it would have been better if you took one player out each faction and put them in the village but really depends on what numbers you have.

It all had to do with normal seers. I knew with the numbers I couldn’t seer any evil as a villager. That’s how normal WW can get away with less evil I reckon

 

[cats_09]

A few of my observations:

- As an evil role, I felt less concern in terms of being outted with my role compared with a normal WW game, especially from about the second day due to the death mechanisms. That's not to say evil won't turn on evil, but the minimal lynching opportunities made it feel safer to be out

- Adjustments to the seer role. Between a couple deaths, Dogs outing himself and maybe 3 people seers, we had pretty much mapped out where folks sat in terms of factions - this was a phase or two before the Wolves announced they had done it. Maybe rather than the role being linked to a person, each faction gets a seer to use each action phase and they've got to make the choice of they'll seer a door or person

I know that the village members aren't in a faction PM for discussion on those things, but would it work with the seer power being randomised amongst the village come each action phase - like a member of the village is sent a PM telling them they've got the ability to learn about a door or person and the choice is theirs to make? Just thinking it would help to not leave the village blind should their seer get knocked off the early in the game and they're trying to work out which evil BS to believe

- Find a way to more death or tension to things; whether it's increasing lynch rooms or say the 'Safe Rooms' become safe to only villages, with a random village member given a "gun" to take a shot at evil but it's only a successful shot if they aim correctly and they can't kill one of their own, as it felt like us evil had it a bit too safe for periods

 

[Bovo]

A few of my observations:

- As an evil role, I felt less concern in terms of being outted with my role compared with a normal WW game, especially from about the second day due to the death mechanisms. That's not to say evil won't turn on evil, but the minimal lynching opportunities made it feel safer to be out

- Adjustments to the seer role. Between a couple deaths, Dogs outing himself and maybe 3 people seers, we had pretty much mapped out where folks sat in terms of factions - this was a phase or two before the Wolves announced they had done it. Maybe rather than the role being linked to a person, each faction gets a seer to use each action phase and they've got to make the choice of they'll seer a door or person

I know that the village members aren't in a faction PM for discussion on those things, but would it work with the seer power being randomised amongst the village come each action phase - like a member of the village is sent a PM telling them they've got the ability to learn about a door or person and the choice is theirs to make? Just thinking it would help to not leave the village blind should their seer get knocked off the early in the game and they're trying to work out which evil BS to believe

- Find a way to more death or tension to things; whether it's increasing lynch rooms or say the 'Safe Rooms' become safe to only villages, with a random village member given a "gun" to take a shot at evil but it's only a successful shot if they aim correctly and they can't kill one of their own, as it felt like us evil had it a bit too safe for periods

2 doors are definitely no longer going to be in the game except the orb room. I think having two doors meant it was too easy to navigate when dogs came out, because he could virtually force the path which kept him alive. 3 doors means if a villager seers an evil room, they won’t automatically know the correct door to take. When I ended up creating rooms after fixing the loop, I ensured 3 doors and that actually worked pretty well I thought

 

[Bovo]

A few of my observations:

- As an evil role, I felt less concern in terms of being outted with my role compared with a normal WW game, especially from about the second day due to the death mechanisms. That's not to say evil won't turn on evil, but the minimal lynching opportunities made it feel safer to be out

- Adjustments to the seer role. Between a couple deaths, Dogs outing himself and maybe 3 people seers, we had pretty much mapped out where folks sat in terms of factions - this was a phase or two before the Wolves announced they had done it. Maybe rather than the role being linked to a person, each faction gets a seer to use each action phase and they've got to make the choice of they'll seer a door or person

I know that the village members aren't in a faction PM for discussion on those things, but would it work with the seer power being randomised amongst the village come each action phase - like a member of the village is sent a PM telling them they've got the ability to learn about a door or person and the choice is theirs to make? Just thinking it would help to not leave the village blind should their seer get knocked off the early in the game and they're trying to work out which evil BS to believe

- Find a way to more death or tension to things; whether it's increasing lynch rooms or say the 'Safe Rooms' become safe to only villages, with a random village member given a "gun" to take a shot at evil but it's only a successful shot if they aim correctly and they can't kill one of their own, as it felt like us evil had it a bit too safe for periods

Actually the thing i noticed early was that there was a time earlier when evil had the numbers and could have easily overridden dogs when he was leading the pack, but historically evil is scared of revealing themselves so evil followed out of fear of being ousted

 

[Bovo]

Let’s talk about the rooms themselves and the phases attached to them

 

[Nothing]

Let’s talk about the rooms themselves and the phases attached to them

While I think of it... the door to enter the lybch room is a phase then voting is a phase, that needs working on

 

[Crimson Azure]

what do people think of the player ratio between villagers and factions? we had 14 in a 6:4:4

At first I thought the game was skewed too heavily in favour of evil. But as the game went longer it became a choice between taking out the other evil faction or stopping the village from escaping. Also from memory the early on in the game the first lynch/traps took out villagers from and they still managed to win. Adding more villages than perhaps 1 might skew the favour too far in the villages balance.

The game at times felt as much a game of chance as it did a strategy game. Could the standard evil seer have a more restricted access to the seer role, perhaps every second phase or after entering an all evil room or WW/shadow room? As a trade off perhaps they could seer as a villager.

 

[cats_09]

I'm not sure about the Wolves - would love to hear their approach to things, but for us Shadows we took the approach this game to kill & lynch the quieter folk based on this being a concept game, and that active participation would hopefully provide better information & feedback for Bovo

In a live game, kill & lynch targets may differ as you may look more at the loudest player or an opposing evil faction

 

[ZergMinion]

Nah MC

He's won like a million games. Sad.

 

[ZergMinion]

I'm not sure about the Wolves - would love to hear their approach to things, but for us Shadows we took the approach this game to kill & lynch the quieter folk based on this being a concept game, and that active participation would hopefully provide better information & feedback for Bovo

In a live game, kill & lynch targets may differ as you may look more at the loudest player or an opposing evil faction

I was trying to share the decision making around and get everyone involved so I was happy for others to choose our actions this game given the new format. We did mostly kill based on post count with the notable exception of when CA put in the kill on MC and then MBR overrode him late to BEaston who'd we'd seered as village (having previously seered MC as shadow).

Nothing as the most active villager was a deserved winner despite having almost nothing to do all game.

 

[Bovo]

I think this is more like a test cricket match as opposed to a one dayer

 

[MarcMaverick]

I think this is more like a test cricket match as opposed to a one dayer

Thank goodness it wasn't T20 cricket.

 

[ZergMinion]

Let’s talk about the rooms themselves and the phases attached to them

Having an entire phase to seer things when you arrive in a room safe/trap room feels like a waste of time and made the game drag. Trap room should kill immediately. Seeing as the door seer is almost random chance, there should be nothing stopping seers being entered in advance, or even just randomize the door seer entirely.

Some indicator that you've been in a room before would be good. The map didn't feel like it was a set maze while we were playing....ie it felt the same is if every room was new and the door options were randomly determined with the only way to go being forwards. I didn't feel like trying to map the maze would provide any benefit.

Perhaps getting told how many rooms there were at the start of the game would make that aspect more rewarding, and maybe getting the room number as you enter the room.

 

[Bovo]

Having an entire phase to seer things when you arrive in a room safe/trap room feels like a waste of time and made the game drag. Trap room should kill immediately. Seeing as the door seer is almost random chance, there should be nothing stopping seers being entered in advance, or even just randomize the door seer entirely.

Some indicator that you've been in a room before would be good. The map didn't feel like it was a set maze while we were playing....ie it felt the same is if every room was new and the door options were randomly determined with the only way to go being forwards. I didn't feel like trying to map the maze would provide any benefit.

Perhaps getting told how many rooms there were at the start of the game would make that aspect more rewarding, and maybe getting the room number as you enter the room.

This is good feedback. Probably need to process it

 

[MC Bad Genius]

Crimson Azure wanted us to shoot a shadow the whole game, but MBR overruled him at a crucial moment and I didn't see the game possibly ending with an evil win if villagers didn't get shot.

Noone aside from CA talked about shooting a shadow in that phase where the game could have ended.

cats_09 was super keen to make sure everyone knew it wasn't her that made the decision to double-cross you.

It was obviously MP_ and I had absolutely nothing to do with it.

 

[ZergMinion]

cats_09 was super keen to make sure everyone knew it wasn't her that made the decision to double-cross you.

It was obviously MP_ and I had absolutely nothing to do with it.

Firstly, you double crossed MBR. I fully expected that end result and wasnt fussed.

Secondly, maybe take that up with WAbulldog

 

[MC Bad Genius]

At first I thought the game was skewed too heavily in favour of evil. But as the game went longer it became a choice between taking out the other evil faction or stopping the village from escaping. Also from memory the early on in the game the first lynch/traps took out villagers from and they still managed to win. Adding more villages than perhaps 1 might skew the favour too far in the villages balance.

The game at times felt as much a game of chance as it did a strategy game. Could the standard evil seer have a more restricted access to the seer role, perhaps every second phase or after entering an all evil room or WW/shadow room? As a trade off perhaps they could seer as a villager.

I was thinking that perhaps the evil factions could have a choice of seering a player OR a door, rather than both. At different times of the game, that decision might lean in opposite direction. But it would also mean that the other faction/village wouldn't know if they were being lead to another room that was not in their best interests.

 

[myblueroan]

cats_09 was super keen to make sure everyone knew it wasn't her that made the decision to double-cross you.

It was obviously MP_ and I had absolutely nothing to do with it.

 

[MC Bad Genius]

Firstly, you double crossed MBR. I fully expected that end result and wasnt fussed.

Secondly, maybe take that up with WAbulldog

I meant you as the whole faction, and yes, I didn't expect that it would be much of surprise haha.

To be fair, I was trying to elongate the game a little so we could see some more rooms / escape and how that would work.

 

[Bovo]

I was thinking that perhaps the evil factions could have a choice of seering a player OR a door, rather than both. At different times of the game, that decision might lean in opposite direction. But it would also mean that the other faction/village wouldn't know if they were being lead to another room that was not in their best interests.

That actually was my original intent, but me and Baz (ChatGPT) decided to split it. The idea of 3 door seers getting a slightly different result based on the door and requester was probably the decider.

 

[MC Bad Genius]

Here are my thoughts from the game overall (some have already been flagged):

1. The concept is interesting, but I think it's gonna need some workshopping (and probably a couple of more play-throughs to build in some tweaks) before it'll become addictive like WW is.
2. Seering doors and players gave the evil factions far too much of an advantage, plus it also removed a lot of the fun of deducing who was who and what people's motivations were for going each door.
3. The pacing needs to be updated to at least two action/decision phases per day. I actually think it would possibly be more fun to play in a condensed timeframe (e.g. 2-3 hours) where everyone is online at the same time.
4. The ratio felt off from the start - only 6 Villagers felt too few. We very quickly got to the point where we knew everyone's alignment and someone could've come out and directed both factions to knock off the Village and then work out how to take out the other faction. It lowered the stakes from that point on.
5. Not enough deaths meant a more drawn-out game, but also feeling less nervous about the direction the game was going.
6. Needs a way to make the discussion phase more important. There really wasn't much to discuss and I feel like if it was a real game, there would be even less discussion as the outcome of the room choice felt kind of arbitrary.

With the map that you shared earlier, what if you set it up more of an actual map (with NESW directions) rather than a choose-your-own-adventure book setup? You wouldn't need to share the details of the map in-game, but it would mean you could say how many rooms everyone is away from escaping and depending on the door choice, we move either closer or further away.

Whichever way you go with it, Bovo, it's definitely worth persisting with!

 

[Bovo]

I meant you as the whole faction, and yes, I didn't expect that it would be much of surprise haha.

To be fair, I was trying to elongate the game a little so we could see some more rooms / escape and how that would work.

It was actually a lot of effort to run. I had descriptions all ready for all doors until I suddenly found I had to make changes. Then I’m like, I don’t want to use the same description twice

 

[MarcMaverick]

Yeah with a bit of tinkering and refining it'll be really good in the future.

 

[MP_]

Door 3 Bovo