List Mgmt. Crows Ruck Stocks

[Velvet George]

Yeah I’ve had enough, when you’re bleating about two “wasted” rookie picks from 2016 and 2018, no matter what anyone posts won’t change your mind.

 

[AFC979810]

Yeah I’ve had enough, when you’re bleating about two “wasted” rookie picks from 2016 and 2018, no matter what anyone posts won’t change your mind.

Good boy.

 

[Golumless]

Are you suggesting that Ruckman take the same time to develop as other players?

Are you suggesting that quality ruckman aren't available for cheap?

Due to the nature of the game - Clubs generally only give significant playing time to 1 ruckman (at most 2). It is far easier to lure ruckman from other clubs (for cheaper) than any other position.

The examples are countless - Toby Nankervis (pick 46), Sam Jacobs (33,67), Cameron (swapping pick 62 for 56), Witts (44,62), Fort (future 3rd). You can't get that consistent return for that cheap at any other position in the AFL.

More to the point, it's also questionable if you really want an elite ruck, unless you can get a couple of years whilst the salary cap hit is low. Seeing the issues effectively every club has ran into once they've paid up to retain these players.

After all, it's a highly overrated and overvalued position.

 

[Mutineer]

Good boy.

Congratulations this has to be a first, you've actually beaten Elite into submission, can't ever remember him not wanting the last say.

 

[AFC979810]

I doubt right now that Tex, Soligo, Keays, Laird and Murray would be paid more. Laird due to frontloading though. And I wouldn't be surprised if ANB, Peatling, Keane and Worrell are on similar coin. When ROB extended he was our only ruckman with any AFL experience, Draper having decided to go to Brisbane.

So I listed 15 players. You said ROB is likely equal to or higher paid than 9 of em.

So do you really believe ROB's contract is a top 6-8 contract at our club? I dont think you believe that.

We had finals coming up and our sole ruckman was demanding 3 years and we only wanted to give him 2. He had the leverage and I'd be surprised if he isn't on around $600k. He was 3/4 through a top 10 B&F year and if he hadn't finished the season after signing so poorly, would have probably finished about 3 spots higher. McAndrew would be on SFA, nobody else would have been interested and even the base wage of around $100k plus games would be a lot more than he'd have gotten at Norwood.

I don't think ROB had all this leverage. He re-signed a full 9 weeks before the offseason.

The 600k - where does that sit? The average for a player who has played at least one senior match is now up to $543,305.

I agree with McAndrew - he would be on next to nothing. Which is why our list management has nailed our ruck situation.

 

[AFC979810]

More to the point, it's also questionable if you really want an elite ruck, unless you can get a couple of years whilst the salary cap hit is low. Seeing the issues effectively every club has ran into once they've paid up to retain these players.

After all, it's a highly overrated and overvalued position.

Yup. Agree 100%.

I think it was 2023 when the top 100 AFL earners was released - it listed 5 different clubs having a ruckman that was paid in the top 100. It's no coincidence that not one of those teams won a final that year.

Clubs aren't drafting ruckman early anymore. Compare the past few drafts to 20 years ago.

AFL Clubs know how unimportant the ruck position is.

 

[AFC979810]

Congratulations this has to be a first, you've actually beaten Elite into submission, can't ever remember him not wanting the last say.

Hey - I wouldn't get too comfortable in the ruck discussion mate.

Wasn't it you who said it was an embarrassment for our club to not pick (now SANFL Ruckman) Harry Boyd?!?!

 

[Mutineer]

Hey - I wouldn't get too comfortable in the ruck discussion mate.

Wasn't it you who said it was an embarrassment for our club to not pick (now SANFL Ruckman) Harry Boyd?!?!

Don't ever recall that sorry, my comment would more likely be Harry Boyd was a better option as a back up ruck option than Strachan.

 

[Peter Doherty]

Then it's a massive win for the club. Cheap backup outperforms established starter. Our best 22 gets better and we have the #1 back up ruckman in the AFL.

I get your point, I wouldn't go as far to say, 'massive win'.

If McAndrew really steps up, it's probably more of a neutral scenario for the next 2 years, salary cap wise. If it plays out with McAndrew as the lead ruck for the next few years, in the 3rd year it's a slight issue, but it won't necessarily be a '3 year problem'.

It's a big if though, McAndrew stepping up, he has very little exposure. Conversely, it's probably a decent sized 'if' regarding ROB being completely useless, maybe he navigates through it, who knows.

 

[skam85]

Take a shot every time you read "Top 10 in the B&F"

 

[AFC979810]

Take a shot every time you read "Top 10 in the B&F"

Mate - not like you to enter a thread seeking approval from the usual posters.

Sorry George - no idea why Simp85 (I am assuming username banter is allowed as thats your usual move Skam) is calling you out here.

You are very defensive when it comes to ROB, this despite being dropped 2 out of 3 years and failing to make our top 10 in the B&F for 3 years.

I believe Nicks choosing to drop a leader of a club twice in 3 years in a position we are devoid of options is a pretty damming assessment of ROBs performance, then throw in the fact he hasn’t rated in the top 10 of our B&F the last 3 years and go back to my first point, McAndrew would be playing this year.

Wrong, you’re focusing on the games dropped, a leader of the club in a position isn’t being dropped for one poor game, he’s dropped for a number of poor games. For them to pull the trigger when they’ve got an average alternative and the fact he hasn’t finished top 10 in the B&F for 3 years says it all.

Our B&F voting rewards fulfilling your role, the coaches don’t believe he’s doing that, hence why they’ve dropped him 2 out of 3 years and he hasn’t finished in the top 10 of a bottom side.

This bloke we dropped last year and hasn’t finished top 10 in our B&F for last 3 years.

It’s not what the club thinks about ROB, they dropped him last year and he didn’t finish top 10 of B&F

*and for the record - this post took me 197 seconds.

 

[Scorpus]

So I listed 15 players. You said ROB is likely equal to or higher paid than 9 of em.

So do you really believe ROB's contract is a top 6-8 contract at our club? I dont think you believe that.



I don't think ROB had all this leverage. He re-signed a full 9 weeks before the offseason.

The 600k - where does that sit? The average for a player who has played at least one senior match is now up to $543,305.

I agree with McAndrew - he would be on next to nothing. Which is why our list management has nailed our ruck situation.

The average salary distribution puts 11 players on over $600k and six on at least $800k



I reckon given he's the 7th most experienced player on our list that he would be in that 600-800k group given he was absolutely signed with the expectation of being a clear best 22 player

 

[whattagun07]

Were possession stats taken, I saw Bicks say that Rob had the ground covered over McAndrew but the one follow up I saw by Rob he turned it straight over.

I understand fans probably turn on players quicker than what is reasonable, but Bicks is so intent on being as least controversial and reactive as possible, and so averse to change that he doubles down on stale and boring, in turn, often being way off the mark. I feel he'd still be playing Ben Rutten at full back if he was on our list.

 

[adelaidecrows]

The AFL without consulting clubs or ruckman brought in a ruck rule. Now they are getting injured. Hmmmm is the added entertainment worth all the injuries. Won't be long before clubs go screw it and let the opposing ruckman have at it.

 

[AFC979810]

The average salary distribution puts 11 players on over $600k and six on at least $800k

View attachment 2535011

I reckon given he's the 7th most experienced player on our list that he would be in that 600-800k group given he was absolutely signed with the expectation of being a clear best 22 player

I still think you would surely have Rankine, TT and Dawson as top 3.

The 3 that are over 800k - I would say are Cumming, Laird, ANB.

IMO - you could argue that Worrell, Rachele, Curtin, Walker, Peatling, Keays, FOG would all be on a higher salary.

My assumption would be that the Club wanted 2 years for ROB and ROB wanted 3 so likely went a bit lower salary.

And to the point. If ROB is on 600k and McAndrew is on 200k and McAndrew over takes him, it's a bloody good salary cap position to be in. We then have a 25 year old Ruckman that improves our best 22 on last year and the #1 backup Ruckman in the league - all for less than Sam Drapers cap hit.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

The AFL without consulting clubs or ruckman brought in a ruck rule. Now they are getting injured. Hmmmm is the added entertainment worth all the injuries. Won't be long before clubs go screw it and let the opposing ruckman have at it.

You don't know that as fact .....would be unheard of the Clubs not to be consulted

 

[WaynesWorld19]

There is a belief, some Rucks will use the tactic of not actually leaping at the bounce ....this is an example

 

[FR0GGY]

I still think you would surely have Rankine, TT and Dawson as top 3.

The 3 that are over 800k - I would say are Cumming, Laird, ANB.

IMO - you could argue that Worrell, Rachele, Curtin, Walker, Peatling, Keays, FOG would all be on a higher salary.

My assumption would be that the Club wanted 2 years for ROB and ROB wanted 3 so likely went a bit lower salary.

And to the point. If ROB is on 600k and McAndrew is on 200k and McAndrew over takes him, it's a bloody good salary cap position to be in. We then have a 25 year old Ruckman that improves our best 22 on last year and the #1 backup Ruckman in the league - all for less than Sam Drapers cap hit.

Can’t see ANB being on 800k, he wanted to come back unlike poaching cumming.

 

[Betts are off]

I've not watched the other teams during the preseason, but out of interest are any other established ruckman in danger of losing their spot with the ruck rule changes?

 

[AFC979810]

Can’t see ANB being on 800k, he wanted to come back unlike poaching cumming.

Fair call. Would love the salaries to be public.

 

[adelaidecrows]

You don't know that as fact .....would be unheard of the Clubs not to be consulted

Hey for entertainment purposes how would you feel about us placing your ruckman at risk

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Hey for entertainment purposes how would you feel about us placing your ruckman at risk

This whole knee injury carry-on is typical hysteria with new rules .....people love to be the spreaders of doom & gloom

Rucking is an art ....an underrated art ...you throw any bozo into that contest, odds are he'll get hurt

So a FWD filling in as a Ruck ....yeah, chance are he'll get hurt ....so a message to Coaches ... "don't do it" ,it's all in your hands

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

The AFL without consulting clubs or ruckman brought in a ruck rule. Now they are getting injured. Hmmmm is the added entertainment worth all the injuries. Won't be long before clubs go screw it and let the opposing ruckman have at it.

Clubs come up with an agreement to take every 2nd ruck contest...

 

[TryAnHit]

After neale did his knee cba yesterday. Never want to see TT in there again. Too risky

 

[Peter Doherty]

After neale did his knee cba yesterday. Never want to see TT in there again. Too risky

With T Murray seemingly a chance for round 1, they might have already made this decision.