England tour of the West Indies 2019 (3 Tests, 5 ODIs and 3 T20s)

[Park cricketer]

You can't make this up!

 

[Wedge McManus]

Jack Leach is a spectacled hero for fighting the good fight. Take note Wedge McManus !

West Indies vs England: Jack Leach claims county pitches do not prepare players properly for international cricket


https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...third-test-team-news-preview-tv-a8766546.html

I don't have a problem with a slow low pitch if your climate conditions genuinely do not allow for any bounce or pace. But pitches that spin square on the first day are unacceptable. The counter argument that western teams serve up green seamers is wrong too as apart from England and the odd SA pitch you won't find many green tops these days. The pitches we serve up to international teams touring us are pretty flat mate. They give us absolutely no advantage to us whatsoever

 

[Park cricketer]

I don't have a problem with a slow low pitch if your climate conditions genuinely do not allow for any bounce or pace. But pitches that spin square on the first day are unacceptable. The counter argument that western teams serve up green seamers is wrong too as apart from England and the odd SA pitch you won't find many green tops these days. The pitches we serve up to international teams touring us are pretty flat mate. They give us absolutely no advantage to us whatsoever

You're way off the mark here mate. Apart from Australia, all the western teams have started designing pitches to suit their styles. Even the Windies have thankfully started moving away from their slow turning tracks and started preparing wickets that assist the pacers to help their very good pace attack, which has been a welcome change to be honest. South Africa, since Ottis Gibson took over, and Faf du Plessis have reiterated many times that there is nothing wrong in doctoring pitches to use their home advantage and that they'll continue to do that. Now their strategy is to prepare slow seamers that aid turn for western teams and hit asian teams with fast and bouncy seaming wickets. New Zealand has been preparing green wickets since a long time, but although in their case, their wickets flatten out quickly to roads within a day or day and half and it becomes a case of who wins the toss. They prepared green wickets for Australia a few years ago to put them into bat first but that strategy backfired when they lost both the tosses. But they still continue to use that strategy and it has been working well for them against most teams barring Australia and South Africa.

You won't see as many greentops in England like in New Zealand but their wickets are watered a lot and consequently the retained moisture under the pitch generates a lot of seam movement and you already have overhead conditions to aid swing bowlers in England. Australia is the only country that has been serving up terrible roads in their home, partly to increase revenues by ensuring that the match lasts the full 5 days and partly because they have one of the few attacks in the world that is potent in flat conditions, so they still win most matches at home however flat the wicket is. The Adelaide wicket and Perth wicket was a welcome change in the last India series but Melbourne was a slow flattish wicket and SCG was an absolute road without the slowish nature of the MCG. Hopefully we see more matches in the Adelaide, Optus stadium and the Gabba in the upcoming series in Australia.

 

[Wedge McManus]

You're way off the mark here mate. Apart from Australia, all the western teams have started designing pitches to suit their styles. Even the Windies have thankfully started moving away from their slow turning tracks and started preparing wickets that assist the pacers to help their very good pace attack, which has been a welcome change to be honest. South Africa, since Ottis Gibson took over, and Faf du Plessis have reiterated many times that there is nothing wrong in doctoring pitches to use their home advantage and that they'll continue to do that. Now their strategy is to prepare slow seamers that aid turn for western teams and hit asian teams with fast and bouncy seaming wickets. New Zealand has been preparing green wickets since a long time, but although in their case, their wickets flatten out quickly to roads within a day or day and half and it becomes a case of who wins the toss. They prepared green wickets for Australia a few years ago to put them into bat first but that strategy backfired when they lost both the tosses. But they still continue to use that strategy and it has been working well for them against most teams barring Australia and South Africa.

You won't see as many greentops in England like in New Zealand but their wickets are watered a lot and consequently the retained moisture under the pitch generates a lot of seam movement and you already have overhead conditions to aid swing bowlers in England. Australia is the only country that has been serving up terrible roads in their home, partly to increase revenues by ensuring that the match lasts the full 5 days and partly because they have one of the few attacks in the world that is potent in flat conditions, so they still win most matches at home however flat the wicket is. The Adelaide wicket and Perth wicket was a welcome change in the last India series but Melbourne was a slow flattish wicket and SCG was an absolute road without the slowish nature of the MCG. Hopefully we see more matches in the Adelaide, Optus stadium and the Gabba in the upcoming series in Australia.

Agree to disagree chief. Those kiwi pitches you spoke about are a first day green illusion. By the end of the second day those pitches are worse than ours. They couldn't even put Sri Lanka away last month. SA may have seaming tracks and England but England lose regular tests at home and their batsmen often can't handle their own conditions

 

[PhatBoy]

I don't have a problem with a slow low pitch if your climate conditions genuinely do not allow for any bounce or pace. But pitches that spin square on the first day are unacceptable. The counter argument that western teams serve up green seamers is wrong too as apart from England and the odd SA pitch you won't find many green tops these days. The pitches we serve up to international teams touring us are pretty flat mate. They give us absolutely no advantage to us whatsoever

I disagree.

To US, they are flat. We see each of our 5-6-7 pitches every summer, we learn to discern between them.

To Sri Lanka/Bangladesh/Pakistan, they’re all just fast and bouncy.
India tour more than the other three so they’re a bit more conditioned to it.

In addition, australia’s Advantage comes from a seeming production line of tall, pound the pitch fast bowlers who have no problem with our surfaces.

 

[Wedge McManus]

I disagree.

To US, they are flat. We see each of our 5-6-7 pitches every summer, we learn to discern between them.

To Sri Lanka/Bangladesh/Pakistan, they’re all just fast and bouncy.
India tour more than the other three so they’re a bit more conditioned to it.

In addition, australia’s Advantage comes from a seeming production line of tall, pound the pitch fast bowlers who have no problem with our surfaces.

Well ok I can see your perspective but here's a counter argument. Pitches here may be fast and bouncy naturally but we don't subsequently doctor them. Pitches in the subcontinent are slow and low AND get doctored for additional advantage. Spin it any way you want they are doing both themselves and visiting teams a disservice

 

[PhatBoy]

Well ok I can see your perspective but here's a counter argument. Pitches here may be fast and bouncy naturally but we don't subsequently doctor them. Pitches in the subcontinent are slow and low AND get doctored for additional advantage. Spin it any way you want they are doing both themselves and visiting teams a disservice

For 80 years India have produced slow, low, abrasive, spinning pitches. It’s the way they are.

Failing to inject them with bounce isn’t tantamount to doctoring.

The two times they’ve produced pitches recently that have spun abnormally - 2015 and 2017 at Nagpur and Pune, they’ve been reprimanded by the ICC for poor surfaces.

 

[Doss]

Tuning in occasionally to the BBL as I do, I can’t help but think it’s an enormous shame that Dwayne Bravo didn’t keep at Test cricket.

 

[Wedge McManus]

Tuning in occasionally to the BBL as I do, I can’t help but think it’s an enormous shame that Dwayne Bravo didn’t keep at Test cricket.

I might have this wrong but it seemed to me he cut and run as soon as T20 leagues cropped up so he could make as much money as possible for as little effort as possible

 

[PhatBoy]

The only teams

Tuning in occasionally to the BBL as I do, I can’t help but think it’s an enormous shame that Dwayne Bravo didn’t keep at Test cricket.

Made an excellent century at Adelaide during one trip out here. He was genuinely capable of being world class at his best.

 

[PhatBoy]

I might have this wrong but it seemed to me he cut and run as soon as T20 leagues cropped up so he could make as much money as possible for as little effort as possible

If the situation was managed properly he never would have had to make the decision.

 

[Doss]

The only teams


Made an excellent century at Adelaide during one trip out here. He was genuinely capable of being world class at his best.

Hobart. He took 6fa at Adelaide though. Both in 2005.

 

[PhatBoy]

Hobart. He took 6fa at Adelaide though. Both in 2005.

Ah yes. That makes more sense. Lara’s double wouldn’t have been so redundant if bravo had have scored one at Adelaide as well.

 

[Wedge McManus]

Hobart. He took 6fa at Adelaide though. Both in 2005.

You sure? I'm sure he hit a ton and took that sixfer in the same match??? Nope just checked... You're right

 

[Ishikawa]

Hobart. He took 6fa at Adelaide though. Both in 2005.

He hit a superb ton on the first day in 2009??

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/...nd-test-west-indies-tour-of-australia-2009-10

 

[Doss]

He hit a superb ton on the first day in 2009??

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/...nd-test-west-indies-tour-of-australia-2009-10

I stand corrected; I'd forgotten about the 2009 knock. His Hobart 113 in 2005 was a superb back to the wall knock, but ultimately still in a losing cause.

 

[010203]

Tuning in occasionally to the BBL as I do, I can’t help but think it’s an enormous shame that Dwayne Bravo didn’t keep at Test cricket.

He's probably one of many West Indian players you could say that about.

 

[PhatBoy]

Shattered at no O’Shane Thomas. Four man pace attack, on (allegedly) the quickest surface in the Caribbean, where Roach is the ‘slow one’ would have been awesome to see. I can see why they went with Paul but still, when you’ve got a team on the rack, why not just belt them.

 

[weetert]

Just saw Jennings' new shave. Heads don't come much worse than that.

Also that top 3 is fairly pathetic.

 

[to1994]

Yeah, Atherton was surprised Windies didn't bat but you can see why they'd bowl. Any attack in world cricket would be pretty enthusiastic to be bowling at Jennings, Burns and Denly on the first morning of a Test.

I know they've been struggling for balance but surely even Foakes would be worth a go as a specialist bat over some of these journeymen. Averages 40 in FC cricket (higher then anyone in the top 3) and he's actually looked one of their better bats.

 

[Ishikawa]

Yeah, Atherton was surprised Windies didn't bat but you can see why they'd bowl. Any attack in world cricket would be pretty enthusiastic to be bowling at Jennings, Burns and Denly on the first morning of a Test.

I know they've been struggling for balance but surely even Foakes would be worth a go as a specialist bat over some of these journeymen. Averages 40 in FC cricket (higher then anyone in the top 3) and he's actually looked one of their better bats.

Journeymen?

All three have performed very strongly at domestic level in the past couple of seasons and Jennings & Burns made a pretty good fist of their recent successful tour of Sri Lanka. Denly's call up was a well deserved reward for an excellent season or two (to be honest I don't think he looks terribly out of place either, has been some bloody good bowling this series).

Much of a muchness as to who gets picked out of the options available, there's similar flaws in each of the alternatives like Vince, Robson, Pope, Browne, Northeast... Whoever gets picked will be criticised and derided as a "journeyman" or bridge player. Unless it's the magical Hameed (their version of Renshaw complete with the same atrocious past two years at domestic level) who can do no wrong and is the hero to solve all problems.

 

[Stig O'Hara]

Stokes out c&b, off he goes, sits down, on review it’s a no-ball.....and back out to the middle.

New rule apparently, if the next ball hasn’t been bowled he can return.

 

[footyfan1978]

Stokes out c&b, off he goes, sits down, on review it’s a no-ball.....and back out to the middle.

New rule apparently, if the next ball hasn’t been bowled he can return.

That will make Dean Jones happy.....

Like this new bowler for Windies. Genuine swing bowler. More please....

 

[t_94]

Journeymen?

All three have performed very strongly at domestic level in the past couple of seasons and Jennings & Burns made a pretty good fist of their recent successful tour of Sri Lanka. Denly's call up was a well deserved reward for an excellent season or two (to be honest I don't think he looks terribly out of place either, has been some bloody good bowling this series).

Much of a muchness as to who gets picked out of the options available, there's similar flaws in each of the alternatives like Vince, Robson, Pope, Browne, Northeast... Whoever gets picked will be criticised and derided as a "journeyman" or bridge player. Unless it's the magical Hameed (their version of Renshaw complete with the same atrocious past two years at domestic level) who can do no wrong and is the hero to solve all problems.

Haven't quite nailed the comparison there. Renshaw had the most first class runs in the world in October last year so he has had some good patches of form in that time. Bit different from Hameed who averaged 11 or something for Lancashire last season.

Clearly Renshaw has to address his issues of performing when higher level selection is on the line but he might have prospered if he was backed in by zen master langer over white ball specialist Finch.

 

[to1994]

Jennings is England's Mitchell Marsh.