Coach John Longmire - Part II

What should we do about the coaching situation?

  • We should sack Longmire before his contract is over and bring in someone new.

    Votes: 31 34.1%

  • We should allow Longmire to see out his contract, but we should definitely not give him a new one.

    Votes: 18 19.8%

  • We should allow Longmire to see out his contract, seeing how he goes before offering a new one.

    Votes: 33 36.3%

  • We should extend Longmire's contract beyond its current duration.

    Votes: 9 9.9%
  • Total voters
    91

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Big Blood said:
Ever so slightly off-topic: I watched replay of the 2005 EF the other night (spoiler: #2 was good!). No current Swans were playing (McVeigh wasn't out there), but we were amazingly well-represented on the Cats side: Playfair, Harley, Stevie J, Gardiner.

I expect the board had some say over Gardiner's appointment. After the coach and CEO it's the most important role in the club.

I don't know anything of Gardiner but our first draft and trade period under him was pretty good. Pulled off those smartarse lightning trades, got Blakey, Menzel for a song, a couple of smokies in Thurlow and Clarke as well as some promising kids. He may not have been responsible for all of these, but if any of it goes wrong he'll get the blame. So far so good.
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EF? Don’t think so buddy!
 
Kolah said:
Amazing how a great list makes a coach look better and better. Take Bucks, for example.
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Not sure what you mean there. AFL.com rated the pies list 10th best leading into last season. Did you see it differently?
On your own “How much better a team performs compared to how they might have been expected to perform with the players available” scale, I would think Bucks scores pretty highly?
 
Kolah said:
Amazing how a great list makes a coach look better and better. Take Bucks, for example. To be fair to Clarkson, it was more he built a list around a game plan than a game plan around a list. ‘If you can’t kick, you can’t play footy’ would have tested a few of ours over the years.

Anyway, the measure of a coach is not their raw win-loss record, it’s how much better the team performs compared with how they might have been expected to perform with the players available. Take a bow Paul Roos 2005-2006. Generally speaking, good luck with measuring a coach’s ‘value add’.

Anyway, where does the performance of the whole coaching panel fit into the picture?


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I disagree with this. He walked into a club that already had Grant Birchall, Luke Hodge, Jordan Lewis, Sam Mitchell, Buddy Franklin, Jarryd Roughead, Brad Sewell and Shane Crawford already there. That's more skill in a line-up than Leon Cameron had when he was given the ever-feared GWS outfit. With the exception of Crawford, those names also formed the nucleus of Clarkson's three-peat team. So his coaching philosophy was basically made up for him from day one on the job. Granted he did an outstanding job executing it, but he looked at the most glaring strength of his list (their skill) and decided to play to that advantage. It is pretty straight-forward but it's astounding how often coaches don't seem to do that because they're too busy worrying about what the rest of the competition is doing.

Paul Roos for example, went against the mould and played to our strengths even though it was considered too bold and too contrasting to what the status quo in the comp was. And we very nearly won back-to-back flags out of it.

Ross Lyon's Fremantle team was a contested machine at the height of the "footy is all about defensive pressure" craze, yet that system came up overwhelmingly short against the Hawthorn system which was almost the exact opposite over and over again, even though Fremantle were the team hyped as the prototypical 2010s team.

I think you can win a premiership with literally any structure and any game plan, even if it's never been done before or called crazy, ugly, boring, stupid, whatever. It just has to be a game plan that works best for the players at your disposal. That's when you'll get the buy-in from the playing group (a la us in 2005-2006, the Hawks in many finals matches, the Bulldogs in 2016 finals) and the results will more often than not follow.
 

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caesar88 said:
I disagree with this. He walked into a club that already had Grant Birchall, Luke Hodge, Jordan Lewis, Sam Mitchell, Buddy Franklin, Jarryd Roughead, Brad Sewell and Shane Crawford already there. That's more skill in a line-up than Leon Cameron had when he was given the ever-feared GWS outfit. With the exception of Crawford, those names also formed the nucleus of Clarkson's three-peat team. So his coaching philosophy was basically made up for him from day one on the job. Granted he did an outstanding job executing it, but he looked at the most glaring strength of his list (their skill) and decided to play to that advantage. It is pretty straight-forward but it's astounding how often coaches don't seem to do that because they're too busy worrying about what the rest of the competition is doing.

Paul Roos for example, went against the mould and played to our strengths even though it was considered too bold and too contrasting to what the status quo in the comp was. And we very nearly won back-to-back flags out of it.

Ross Lyon's Fremantle team was a contested machine at the height of the "footy is all about defensive pressure" craze, yet that system came up overwhelmingly short against the Hawthorn system which was almost the exact opposite over and over again, even though Fremantle were the team hyped as the prototypical 2010s team.

I think you can win a premiership with literally any structure and any game plan, even if it's never been done before or called crazy, ugly, boring, stupid, whatever. It just has to be a game plan that works best for the players at your disposal. That's when you'll get the buy-in from the playing group (a la us in 2005-2006, the Hawks in many finals matches, the Bulldogs in 2016 finals) and the results will more often than not follow.
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You must have a fair bit of time on your hands , non stop on the same topic .


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caesar88 said:
I disagree with this. He walked into a club that already had Grant Birchall, Luke Hodge, Jordan Lewis, Sam Mitchell, Buddy Franklin, Jarryd Roughead, Brad Sewell and Shane Crawford already there. That's more skill in a line-up than Leon Cameron had when he was given the ever-feared GWS outfit. With the exception of Crawford, those names also formed the nucleus of Clarkson's three-peat team. So his coaching philosophy was basically made up for him from day one on the job.
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Clarkson took over at Hawthorn before the 2004 National Draft and was the coach when 4 of the above players were drafted to the Hawks. Buddy, Roughead and Lewis were drafted in 2004 and Birchall who was picked up in 2006, so how in the hell was that much talent already there when Clarkson arrived yet they were still to be drafted to Hawthorn or even play under 18 football in one players case? So no his coaching philosophy wasn't made up for him because nearly half the players you name weren't even at the club yet.
 
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robbieando said:
Clarkson took over at Hawthorn before the 2004 National Draft and was the coach when 4 of the above players were drafted to the Hawks. Buddy, Roughead and Lewis were drafted in 2004 and Birchall who was picked up in 2006, so how in the hell was that much talent already there when Clarkson arrived yet they were still to be drafted to Hawthorn or even play under 18 football in one players case? So no his coaching philosophy wasn't made up for him because nearly half the players you name weren't even at the club yet.
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It's the list management staff who have more to do with the drafting than the senior coach (not that he wouldn't have contributed.) But the recruiting staff would have had scouts watching Buddy, Roughead, Lewis etc all year before Clarkson had even left Port Adelaide. Clearly their excellent list management and recruiting staff were the pivotal ones in targeting highly-skilled players. That was clearly what they were going for before Clarkson was even on their radar as coach, so I stand by what I said that the basis for his coaching philosophy was already made up for him.
 

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bedford said:
2nd last on this thread .
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We need everyone posting on here Bedders. Agreeing, disagreeing, quoting stats, misspelling words, talking sh.t, having no idea, having superior AFL knowledge but most important of all, after all is said & done, getting back on here just to get away from the things in life that put REAL stress on us all.

Well that's why I'm here anyway.:)
 
Seriously though, I suppose it is possible that the club already has a transition plan in place. But for that to be the case you would think the replacement is already at the club. And what if Longmire takes the team to the Premiership this season? Do we end up with a Malthouse/Buckley situation?

I can't help but remember the "done deal" to bring Darcy Moore to the Swans a few months back... is Longmire's departure a similar "done deal"?
 
RobbieK said:
Seriously though, I suppose it is possible that the club already has a transition plan in place. But for that to be the case you would think the replacement is already at the club. And what if Longmire takes the team to the Premiership this season? Do we end up with a Malthouse/Buckley situation?
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Irrespective of what happens, I cannot foresee any prospect of the Collingwood situation. The Filth had 3 unique diabolical factors - EddieHead, Malthouse and FIGJAM - that we have been spared from.
 
RUNVS said:
GWS used the corridor a lot more than the Swans today. I noticed the Swans players kicking it to teammates near the boundary line a lot.
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Yes. The Giants also played on a lot. To horses credit there was less crab like scuttling for chip kicks across the backline. At least Fox and COR showed dash. So, maybe Horse is looking to drop the woeful chippety and allow a bit of run.
 
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