Scape Goat I've lost my faith in Ken Hinkley Part 2

[Duck Farmer]

koch wont sack him in 2019 so will have to get it ready for a mid 2020 to end of 2020 payout with 10,000 fans contributing again.

Depends. The worse we do this year the more funds in the kitty and the greater the pressure on Koch to sack him. That's the beauty of it. Plus we could also claim to be innovating again as the first club to establish a crowdfunded hedge against poor performance.

 

[Janus]

Either that or his head is so far up his own arse and he could give two shits what any of the fans think
I'd love to have your faith though
Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

Yeah, I don’t think so. Most people don’t actually enjoy being abused relentlessly by people that are meant to be supporting them. It’s like when people abuse me on here - it’s only because I believe so strongly in the path we are on that I can brush it off...which is exactly what Ken is doing.

Like for instance - would the players have learned to burn off 4 minutes just chipping the ball around in the back lines that was seen in the trial game if it wasn’t for the harsh lessons learned from last year? If they had done that against West Coast instead of stupidly rushing forward we would have won that game. Of course it wouldn’t have mattered in the end, but at some point it will matter. I would have rather that happen then the two Wingard turnovers kicking to no one at all in the forward line in the 2017 EF, for example.

Hermetic Principle 2 - As above, so below. As below, so above. Everyone needs to be pulling in the same direction - from the board to the bootstudder. It’s not about Ken, it’s about the club. What’s best for the players to be the best they can be. That’s why getting rid of Nicks and Lade was important. Montgomery and Schofield have the same defend to attack philosophy that Ken displayed in 2013/14.

I mean, it’s like you lot are stuck in this causal loop of negativity which you can’t escape from. When the time comes to celebrate a flag, most have said they won’t feel jubilation but relief, and that’s because you’ve decided that it wasn’t the list or their lack of development when Hinkley arrived that was the problem, but Ken.

We’re in this for sustained success. And when we reach the pinnacle, we’ll be up there for awhile, because we’ve gathered enough resources to stay there.

 

[DazalenkoUBewty]

Kenny xo

 

[OneGreatClub]

Yeah, I don’t think so. Most people don’t actually enjoy being abused relentlessly by people that are meant to be supporting them. It’s like when people abuse me on here - it’s only because I believe so strongly in the path we are on that I can brush it off...which is exactly what Ken is doing.

Like for instance - would the players have learned to burn off 4 minutes just chipping the ball around in the back lines that was seen in the trial game if it wasn’t for the harsh lessons learned from last year? If they had done that against West Coast instead of stupidly rushing forward we would have won that game. Of course it wouldn’t have mattered in the end, but at some point it will matter. I would have rather that happen then the two Wingard turnovers kicking to no one at all in the forward line in the 2017 EF, for example.

Hermetic Principle 2 - As above, so below. As below, so above. Everyone needs to be pulling in the same direction - from the board to the bootstudder. It’s not about Ken, it’s about the club. What’s best for the players to be the best they can be. That’s why getting rid of Nicks and Lade was important. Montgomery and Schofield have the same defend to attack philosophy that Ken displayed in 2013/14.

I mean, it’s like you lot are stuck in this causal loop of negativity which you can’t escape from. When the time comes to celebrate a flag, most have said they won’t feel jubilation but relief, and that’s because you’ve decided that it wasn’t the list or their lack of development when Hinkley arrived that was the problem, but Ken.

We’re in this for sustained success. And when we reach the pinnacle, we’ll be up there for awhile, because we’ve gathered enough resources to stay there.

ain’t that the truth

 

[ClintEastwood]

Hermetic Principle 2 - As above, so below. As below, so above. Everyone needs to be pulling in the same direction - from the board to the bootstudder. It’s not about Ken, it’s about the club. What’s best for the players to be the best they can be. That’s why getting rid of Nicks and Lade was important. Montgomery and Schofield have the same defend to attack philosophy that Ken displayed in 2013/14.

Interesting to hear you say everyone needs to be pulling in the same direction, and then almost state as a known fact that the direction is "defend to attack". I spoke to one of this year's assistants a couple of months ago, who said Ken needs to get back to what he has had success at - fast attacking footy. Seems he's pulling in a different direction, at least by way of thought. Who knows what the other assistants think/say.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

So is it defence first footy or attack at all cost footy??

If the later, then there has been a seismic shift in Hinkley's thinking.

Why the change? Because the first philosophy was an abject failure - when it mattered in the big games?

 

[Us against the rest]

Yeah, I don’t think so. Most people don’t actually enjoy being abused relentlessly by people that are meant to be supporting them. It’s like when people abuse me on here - it’s only because I believe so strongly in the path we are on that I can brush it off...which is exactly what Ken is doing.

Like for instance - would the players have learned to burn off 4 minutes just chipping the ball around in the back lines that was seen in the trial game if it wasn’t for the harsh lessons learned from last year? If they had done that against West Coast instead of stupidly rushing forward we would have won that game. Of course it wouldn’t have mattered in the end, but at some point it will matter. I would have rather that happen then the two Wingard turnovers kicking to no one at all in the forward line in the 2017 EF, for example.

Hermetic Principle 2 - As above, so below. As below, so above. Everyone needs to be pulling in the same direction - from the board to the bootstudder. It’s not about Ken, it’s about the club. What’s best for the players to be the best they can be. That’s why getting rid of Nicks and Lade was important. Montgomery and Schofield have the same defend to attack philosophy that Ken displayed in 2013/14.

I mean, it’s like you lot are stuck in this causal loop of negativity which you can’t escape from. When the time comes to celebrate a flag, most have said they won’t feel jubilation but relief, and that’s because you’ve decided that it wasn’t the list or their lack of development when Hinkley arrived that was the problem, but Ken.

We’re in this for sustained success. And when we reach the pinnacle, we’ll be up there for awhile, because we’ve gathered enough resources to stay there.

I agree with most of this post but as for the 2018 debacle, that sits on Ken's shoulders imo.

 

[PowerLil]

Yeah, I don’t think so. Most people don’t actually enjoy being abused relentlessly by people that are meant to be supporting them. It’s like when people abuse me on here - it’s only because I believe so strongly in the path we are on that I can brush it off...which is exactly what Ken is doing.

Like for instance - would the players have learned to burn off 4 minutes just chipping the ball around in the back lines that was seen in the trial game if it wasn’t for the harsh lessons learned from last year? If they had done that against West Coast instead of stupidly rushing forward we would have won that game. Of course it wouldn’t have mattered in the end, but at some point it will matter. I would have rather that happen then the two Wingard turnovers kicking to no one at all in the forward line in the 2017 EF, for example.

Hermetic Principle 2 - As above, so below. As below, so above. Everyone needs to be pulling in the same direction - from the board to the bootstudder. It’s not about Ken, it’s about the club. What’s best for the players to be the best they can be. That’s why getting rid of Nicks and Lade was important. Montgomery and Schofield have the same defend to attack philosophy that Ken displayed in 2013/14.

I mean, it’s like you lot are stuck in this causal loop of negativity which you can’t escape from. When the time comes to celebrate a flag, most have said they won’t feel jubilation but relief, and that’s because you’ve decided that it wasn’t the list or their lack of development when Hinkley arrived that was the problem, but Ken.

We’re in this for sustained success. And when we reach the pinnacle, we’ll be up there for awhile, because we’ve gathered enough resources to stay there.

Typical of teflon Ken. Failed years attributed to Nicks, Lade and co and any future success will be the return of Ken's 2013/14. Sheesh.

 

[rogerjames]

Kenny xo

XO out of our club. xxx

 

[edgie]

Strong contested accountable footy is defensive by default - it can be done without a defensive mindset or game that relies on losing taps, creating turnovers, and intercepts.

Win the footy, use the footy, fight hard to get the footy back, in that order.

Janus/Ken do that in reverse.

Nobody watched us in 13/14 and thought we weren't defensive enough. We were accountable. Or main issues were lack of class ruck, star KPD, and genuine support for Schulz, another tall we could rely on to kick 30 a season, and of course, selection night. The gameplan and attitudes of the team itself was fine.

 

[Janus]

Typical of teflon Ken. Failed years attributed to Nicks, Lade and co and any future success will be the return of Ken's 2013/14. Sheesh.

Failed years attributed to a poor list that proved it wasn't up to it in the back half of 2017, culminating in a Showdown loss that a premiership calibre team would never have suffered, where the team was completely smashed in contested ball because they didn't want to work hard enough.

Since that loss, the following players who were in the 22 are no longer with the club:

Trengove
Wingard
Polec
Pittard
Hombsch
Impey
Young
Monfries

36% of the 22 turned over from the end of 2017 to the beginning of 2019, replaced by:

Lycett
Rozee
Duursma
Burton
Watts
Rockliff
Motlop
Butters

El_Scorcho thinks we're in a rebuilding phase this year. I keep saying we to rebuild you had to have something built in the first place. We are just building.

Interesting to hear you say everyone needs to be pulling in the same direction, and then almost state as a known fact that the direction is "defend to attack". I spoke to one of this year's assistants a couple of months ago, who said Ken needs to get back to what he has had success at - fast attacking footy. Seems he's pulling in a different direction, at least by way of thought. Who knows what the other assistants think/say.

It was stated at the member's convention that that is what the plan is during Montgomery's presentation. It was in big letters on the screen - 'Defend to attack'. I don't think Ken has ever changed that philosophy - he was always talking about how he loves it when the defenders join in with the midfield - at last years convention it was stated by him that we are meant to be a front half football team, but apparently the players didn't get the memo because we were always anchored in our back half due to the forwards and midfielders not pressing hard enough.

With Montgomery advocating the defenders pushing up the field and getting into attacking positions while still defending, and with Schofield advocating the high backs and high forwards becoming part of the midfield group in relation to where the ball is...and with Bassett impressing on the forwards the advantages of locking the ball in the forward line and creating chaos ball with their pressure rather than stupid long ball kicks from errant midfielders...I think there's a lot to look forward to.

Jeet Ken Do...be like water.

Strong contested accountable footy is defensive by default - it can be done without a defensive mindset or game that relies on losing taps, creating turnovers, and intercepts.

Win the footy, use the footy, fight hard to get the footy back, in that order.

Janus/Ken do that in reverse.

Nobody watched us in 13/14 and thought we weren't defensive enough. We were accountable. Or main issues were lack of class ruck, star KPD, and genuine support for Schulz, another tall we could rely on to kick 30 a season, and of course, selection night. The gameplan and attitudes of the team itself was fine.

Isn't 'getting the footy back' another way to say 'win the footy'?

So it's 'win the footy, use the footy, win the footy, use the footy'.

Defence, attack - it's all the same thing. Janus (and Ken, IMO) advocates stop hits as the primary form of defence. Hence why it's always about counter-press at the point of turnover, which I've been banging on about since forever.

"When the distance is wide, the attacking opponent requires some sort of preparation. Therefore, attack him on his preparation of attack. To reach me, you must move to me. Your attack offers me an opportunity to intercept you." This means intercepting an opponent's attack with an attack of one's own instead of simply blocking it.

Of course, this is the most difficult defensive skill to develop, because it requires knowing when to push it and intercept in an advanced attacking area and when to fall back.

It's like in boxing - the best time to attack with speed is when your opponent has his guard lowered because he's about to throw a punch - not only does he leave himself open, but he is given no time to react to your attack because he's still in attack mode himself. That's how most knockouts happen.

 

[edgie]

...


Isn't 'getting the footy back' another way to say 'win the footy'?

So it's 'win the footy, use the footy, win the footy, use the footy'.
...

No.

Win the footy back, implies it has already been lost. This will happen. That's footy. Harass the other guys hard til they give the ball up, through pressure or free kicks.

I'm talking about winning it from neutral contests. In the ruck, on the ground, from the rolling maul that's moved ten metres in two minutes. I'm talking about getting first clean touch in any given passage of play.

You wheel out these fighting philosophies Janus, and they aren't wrong, but they aren't the only way. Have you stepped in the ring? The Octagon? I have, in the middle and in the corners. There's more than one way to skin a cat, just like AFL. You should know many of the best fighters of their time are people who don't take backwards steps - who get you on the ropes and keep you there til you fall. They don't wait for timing or openings. They don't wait for the other guy to make a move and find a hole in his defense, they punch and kick their way through it til it breaks. Suggesting most knockouts happen on the counter strike is a statistic I'd like to see verified.

 

[Janus]

No.

Win the footy back, implies it has already been lost. This will happen. That's footy.

I'm talking about winning it from neutral contests. In the ruck, on the ground, from the rolling maul that's moved ten metres in two minutes.

You wheel out these fighting philosophies Janus, and they aren't wrong, but they aren't the only way. Have you stepped in the ring? The Octagon? I have, in the middle and in the corners. There's more than one way to skin a cat, just like AFL. You should know many of the best fighters of their time are people who don't take backwards steps - who get you on the ropes and keep you there til you fall. They don't wait for timing or openings. They don't wait for the other guy to make a move and find a hole in his defense, they punch and kick their way through it til it breaks. Suggesting most knockouts happen on the counter strike is a statistic I'd like to see verified.

From ExpertBoxing.com:

"The best TIMING for landing a knockout punch is for you to land the punch as your opponent is throwing his. Not before, not after. You have to land your punch RIGHT as he’s throwing his fully body weight into his. The combined momentum is what maximizes the chance of you creating a knockout. It has little to do with HOW HARD you punch and more so with WHEN you punch. This advice does go against the conventional wisdom of “box more, fight smart, don’t exchange with him”…but remember—you’re going for the knockout, right?"

Most MMA fights are stopped as TKOs. It's a little different.

And no, I haven't stepped in the ring. I have fought at a martial arts tournament before though, so I know a bit about it.

 

[Far Kern]

The evidence of outcomes suggests unequivocally that Ken is a far better attacking coach than defensive. That is how he played.

He got his nuts cut off by committee and it has ended him.

 

[ClintEastwood]

So is it defence first footy or attack at all cost footy??

If the later, then there has been a seismic shift in Hinkley's thinking.

It was Broges who told me he thinks Ken needs to get back to being more attacking. But he never said "attack at all cost", nor did I say that. It's not one polar opposite or the other REH, just being a lot MORE attacking, without losing the defensive work, was how I read what he said.

 

[tribey]

“When the time comes for the broken clock to be right, you’ll all look pretty silly for wanting its batteries replaced”

 

[tribey]

It was Broges who told me he thinks Ken needs to get back to being more attacking. But he never said "attack at all cost", nor did I say that. It's not one polar opposite or the other REH, just being a lot MORE attacking, without losing the defensive work, was how I read what he said.

When you come off a season that included a combined scoreless half against wooden spooners Carlton and one of the most dire Freo outfits since Damien Drum, drastic changes have to be made.

I mean, sheesh.

We’ve been sat here for the past so many years bemoaning legitimate things beyond our control like Walsh being poached, Ryder being rubbed out by WADA and Schulz’s back turning to custard overnight, but 6 seasons into Hinkley’s grand vision we couldn’t conjure a solitary behind in two quarters against a pair of teams who featured maybe one All-Australian calibre player out of 44 largely sub-par footballers.

Just diabolical.

 

[edgie]

When you come off a season that included a combined scoreless half against wooden spooners Carlton and one of the most dire Freo outfits since Damien Drum, drastic changes have to be made.

I mean, sheesh.

We’ve been sat here for the past so many years bemoaning legitimate things beyond our control like Walsh being poached, Ryder being rubbed out by WADA and Schulz’s back turning to custard overnight, but 6 seasons into Hinkley’s grand vision we couldn’t conjure a solitary behind in two quarters against a pair of teams who featured maybe one All-Australian calibre player out of 44 largely sub-par footballers.

Just diabolical.

But Gray

 

[Holden Hillbilly]

Last chance for Ken. No excuses.

If we cannot make it before round 23 then he should be sacked as soon as we cannot make finals.

 

[Duck Farmer]

Last chance for Ken. No excuses.

If we cannot make it before round 23 then he should be sacked as soon as we cannot make finals.

That wouldn't be fair. Everyone knows AFL is a brutal game and you only need to be a little bit off your best and you'll get punished. Plus we'll have run into some very good sides on their day whose low position on the ladder betrayed their real ability. And injuries and suspensions, probably. Also he'll find out the why during the offseason.

 

[Adam Marrett23]

So is it defence first footy or attack at all cost footy??

If the later, then there has been a seismic shift in Hinkley's thinking.

Why the change? Because the first philosophy was an abject failure - when it mattered in the big games?

The rule changes may have forced Hinkley's hand to. From the intraclub and watching yesterday's game, they will change the game, it is going to be more attacking from the start. Teams that defend well on open play will win more games obviously, but now Ken's move of playing a spare defender nearly all the time is gone, he almost has to be more attacking from the outset.

 

[Papa G]

That wouldn't be fair. Everyone knows AFL is a brutal game and you only need to be a little bit off your best and you'll get punished. Plus we'll have run into some very good sides on their day whose low position on the ladder betrayed their real ability. And injuries and suspensions, probably. Also he'll find out the why during the offseason.

Ugh. I already want to punch Hinkley in the head thinking about him trotting out these excuses after another demoralizing loss.

 

[portly]

I see what you did there[emoji5]

That wouldn't be fair. Everyone knows AFL is a brutal game and you only need to be a little bit off your best and you'll get punished. Plus we'll have run into some very good sides on their day whose low position on the ladder betrayed their real ability. And injuries and suspensions, probably. Also he'll find out the why during the offseason.

On SM-G920I using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[El_Scorcho]

From ExpertBoxing.com:

"The best TIMING for landing a knockout punch is for you to land the punch as your opponent is throwing his. Not before, not after. You have to land your punch RIGHT as he’s throwing his fully body weight into his. The combined momentum is what maximizes the chance of you creating a knockout. It has little to do with HOW HARD you punch and more so with WHEN you punch. This advice does go against the conventional wisdom of “box more, fight smart, don’t exchange with him”…but remember—you’re going for the knockout, right?"

Most MMA fights are stopped as TKOs. It's a little different.

And no, I haven't stepped in the ring. I have fought at a martial arts tournament before though, so I know a bit about it.

This is fine, but in 2018 we basically employed Moe Szyslak plan for Homer, where we didn't go on the attack at all.

This would require a very significant change in philosophy. While I support that because we need change to win, I do wonder why we're persisting with the same coach given this will be what, the 4th gameplan reset?

 

[afl2004]

Game plan or no game plan our skills are still average and never get better despite millions upon millions spent since Koch came aboard