Crisis meeting - Hun reports

[giantroo]

no you are just pleasure mrs harquater

 

[Snake_Baker]

It's a wozzle mate.

Just give him some change and move on.

 

[Smoocher]

Quotas are in place (seriously struggle with why this has to be explained, you seem quite articulate) for example, a job, you have 3 candidates with exact same skillset, exact same experience, you have one position, one is anglo confident male, other is a confident women and the third is a confident m/f with indigenous background! All identical in skillset and will provide the same service to the company.. WITHOUT a quota who do you think gets the job? The male will get the job almost all the time, female maybe and the indigenous candidate be lucky if they are even considered! This is an actual reality! And why quotas of such are introduced in companies.. If you honestly believe that prejudice does not exist in women or the indigenous then you are further behind than where progression needs to be.

Im not having a dig at you, a lot of people have the same hard right views as yourself, but you’ll have to accept you are now the minority!

So if the white male has the superior skill set and the other two being a woman and an indigenous person have a lesser skill set, then you do realise that in order to fill the quota you would have to hire the lesser qualified or skilled.

So if every employer had to fill quotas the poor white guy with superior skill set would never get a job.

In footy terms we hired Laura Kane an ex lawyer with limited football experience as our head of football.




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[CharlieMortdecai]

It's unworkable mate. Laws based upon across the board equality is about as level as you can make things. Then it's up to merit. Anything else introduces prejudice.

Nah, that's a defeatist attitude. Pig iron Bob wasn't too concerned about the prospect of same sex marriage but John Howard sure was. And now it's actually here.
Look, we can't get in a time machine and get young Tef on the path to a job at Macquarie Bank. But we can work towards removing the inherent biases that would stop young boys and girls (and gender fluid individuals) from whichever struggle street from whence you came from acquiring a pin stripe suit, an expensive coke habit and the keys to a hedge fund.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Nah, that's a defeatist attitude.

Defeatist? It's rational.

 

[The Uranium Snowflake]

Why are people getting so triggered by Laura Kane’s role? Do they think she filled the vacant position that Geoff Walsh left?

And why weren’t they flailing about when Jenny Loughnan filled the same position at the club for a number of years?

It’s so melty in here.

 

[Yoko and me]

That has always been the challenge though, the balance between liberalism and conservatism, liberalism sees flaws in the current system and wants to make change while conservatism sees a functional system and wants to protect it from becoming a dysfunctional system by making radical change to the system.

I think the absence of war and strife makes us lean towards liberalism, when we are faced with hardship we tend to lean towards conservatism, it is the lack of struggle in the modern age that contributes towards us pushing towards more change and there is less push back from conservatives because they do not feel the system is under as much threat by change. However, I think there is a tipping point where the more radical change happens, the greater the pushback there is towards conservatism and we are experiencing that now in the west.

We need more problem solving intellectual debate rather than pushing extreme political views, you need to understand the nature of the beast though and why we behave the way we do, why we think the way we do. To a certain extent we have lost sight of that in the present. I think two very good liberal intellectuals that all people should read/listen to are Bret Weinstein and Steven Pinker. Two good video examples:

Bret Weinstein on the phenomenon of left and right:



Steven Pinker on Is the world getting better or worse

Thanks Tas. Well said and the links remind me of something I should keep in mind but have forgotten to hear amongst all the other traffic of life.

Always glad to see your considered posts

 

[Yoko and me]

Aren’t we proposing a play for the adjoining block to our ground before it is snapped up by developers?


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The dog park and the pool I assume

 

[Snake_Baker]

Gender Quota at it's finest.

 

[jclei]

The Club seems to think that, too:

'North Melbourne has announced Laura Kane as its new Football Operations Manager following the resignation of Geoff Walsh.

Kane was previously working in the club's Women's Football and Next Generation Academy areas.

"Laura is well suited to the role and its an exciting opportunity for her and the football club," GM Football Cameron Joyce said.

"The work she's done since arriving at North last year has been of the highest quality and we are thrilled to have someone of her calibre as part of our club."
Laura will now be responsible for the management of Football Operations, Welfare, Talent Pathways, VFL alignment and Women's academies.'



https://www.nmfc.com.au/news/2017-01-25/north-appoints-footy-op

Even though they mention Walsh in that statement, Kane has not replaced Geoff Walsh's role. Walsh was Director of Football and hasnt actually been replaced by anyone although Ben Buckley mentioned we were looking to replace it.

Cam Joyce is GM of Football and Kane is Head of Football Operations - she reports to Joyce and her main functions are operational activites - she looks after welfare, our academies and has a very large role in AFLW given her background with Melbourne Uni in the VFLW

Everyone has just gone completely crazy in this thread and looking for anyone they can point blame at. Funnily enough some people are saying they are happy with Joyce but very unhappy with Kane even though they have absolutely zero idea of her role and responsibilities. Put 2+2 together to work out why

 

[Tectonic]

So if the white male has the superior skill set and the other two being a woman and an indigenous person have a lesser skill set, then you do realise that in order to fill the quota you would have to hire the lesser qualified or skilled.

So if every employer had to fill quotas the poor white guy with superior skill set would never get a job.

In footy terms we hired Laura Kane an ex lawyer with limited football experience as our head of football.




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I mean, she has a VFL level coaching accreditation, and has been involved in AFL coaching since 2013.. and now she's basically a logistics manager for Brad.

But sure our mediocrity for the last 10 years is on our football manager. All because she doesn't speak up. (Maybe she does, who knows? We all keep hearing about some magical closed group of self appointed circle jerkers)

Honestly everyone in this and many other threads needs to pull their/our heads in. This is a tough time for the club and for all of us.

But the personal attacks have to stop. We -ALL- want what's best for NMFC, even it we disagree on the means of getting there. So stop belittling others, left, right, whatever.

From what I can see what nearly everybody wants is to see the club admin acknowledge that mediocre results are unacceptable and work to address this.
Everything else is white noise, stop getting sidetracked.

 

[kelman]

That is a baseless assumption.

It is not. I work for a large company, have been involved in diversity/inclusion programs, have statistics and what DuckYeah described is absolutely correct.

You know what Snake, your problem is you might be too optimistic in thinking people just consider other people purely on their merits.

 

[jclei]

You're responding to a post which quotes her duties. Why are you reciting them again?

She was a personal injury lawyer who described footy as a 'hobby' prior to her appointment with NMFC. She wasn't very many years graduated, either. I don't know the intricacies of her qualifications, but if you're implying they are going off their trees in questioning their qualifications because she's a female, then it begs the question asked above - why weren't they making the same noise re: Loughnan?

Have you read this thread?

She is being highly questioned by a lot of people based on her background - you know she was the president of the Melbourne Uni VFLW team for quite some time before joining us and she is head of football OPERATIONS - its the head of an admin team. Her team would be in charge of making sure all of the players are catered for, have living arrangements, flights, accommodation, etc etc

I dont know how many of you have ever worked in a corporate environment but there's clearly a few. For those that havent I can tell you being head of operations anywhere doesnt require domain knowledge - it requires people management knowledge. It requires being able to run a large team of people who keep the company going. If she was a commercial lawyer she is clearly well educated and has worked in a corporate environment of the highest calibre for many years. She would have nothing to do with how our football team is coached, recruited or overall list management. She has football experience in womens football but was hired for her corporate knowledge.

People need to forget about questioning her experience and go back to looking at the actual GM of Football and coaching dept.

 

[bendad]

So Laura Kane has been zeroed in on. I wonder why she has been targetted over the other members of the football department? But no, quotas aren't needed, sexism is just a few psychos, racism is barely worth a mention.
You need to realise that you need to LISTEN to the people being marginalised instead of TELLING them how it is. Wake up, you are on the wrong side of history. You can accept it or just get angrier and more disenfrachised as you age, but you ARE going to lose this one.

 

[Mordecai]

The level of conversation in this thread is..
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low.

Can we get back to football?

 

[Billy Not Really]

Give me a spell you boomers, the entire club is being brought into question. When the review comes everyones heads gonna be on a platter, the problems outlined have been more than just the on-field/coaching, the way members have been treated has been appalling judging by a fair few accounts and that brings into question just about every person who works there.

Especially those in higher positions such as Kane, the entire board is being asked to step down by alot of people. If you're gonna white knight on behalf of people doing a provably poor job because of their gender, you're not helping anyone. She isn't being singled out either, I think most people here are questioning if its indicative of the level of qualification North is after, which judging by where we're at, is average at best due to Norths main goal is keeping above the financial line at the cost of alot of people who worked at the club for years, decades even, getting axed in the past 10 years in favor of mediocrity and saving the odd cent

I don't know exactly how well Laura Kane does her job, that isn't evident unless an outside review was conducted, its not a visible output we can measure. But don't act like its just her on the line, alot of asses are on the line at NMFC, that's what 10 years of mediocrity got us.

I don't even know why I'm dipping my toes into this shit, I guess its the fact people are getting distracted by dumb socio-political bullshit as per usual instead of viewing the real problems and addressing the football, which is not too far from how the world operates anyway.

 

[bendad]

Give me a spell you boomers, the entire club is being brought into question. When the review comes everyones heads gonna be on a platter, the problems outlined have been more than just the on-field/coaching, the way members have been treated has been appalling judging by a fair few accounts and that brings into question just about every person who works there.

Especially those in higher positions such as Kane, the entire board is being asked to step down by alot of people. If you're gonna white knight on behalf of people doing a provably poor job because of their gender, you're not helping anyone. She isn't being singled out either, I think most people here are questioning if its indicative of the level of qualification North is after, which judging by where we're at, is average at best due to Norths main goal is keeping above the financial line at the cost of alot of people who worked at the club for years, decades even, getting axed in the past 10 years in favor of mediocrity and saving the odd cent

I don't know exactly how well Laura Kane does her job, that isn't evident unless an outside review was conducted, its not a visible output we can measure. But don't act like its just her on the line, alot of asses are on the line at NMFC, that's what 10 years of mediocrity got us.

I don't even know why I'm dipping my toes into this shit, I guess its the fact people are getting distracted by dumb socio-political bullshit as per usual instead of viewing the real problems and addressing the football, which is not too far from how the world operates anyway.

But she was singled out, explicitly as a reference to quotas. In this thread. With no understanding of her role, if she's good at it, anything. I know everyone is in question - Brad Scott has 1 billion threads calling for his head. But that doesn't give a free pass - people don't even realise their unconscious bias. That's what makes it so insidious, and so prevalent to this day.

 

[Billy Not Really]

But she was singled out, explicitly as a reference to quotas. In this thread. With no understanding of her role, if she's good at it, anything. I know everyone is in question - Brad Scott has 1 billion threads calling for his head. But that doesn't give a free pass - people don't even realise their inconscious bias. That's what makes it so insidious, and so prevalent to this day.

Alot of names have been called out to step down through this thread alone, and you wanna get hung up on Laura Kane, when everyone as a whole has been questioned of their roles and qualifications as I said.

I'm not getting into your whirlwind of distraction with tying everything down to some social frontier to fight on, its been done to death, achieves nothing, and nobody changes their minds on either side of the argument so why waste my time. And no, not everyone who questions her makes them have an inconcious bias, her qualifications are suspect that's all we know. So review it. Moving on.

 

[bendad]

Alot of names have been called out to step down through this thread alone, and you wanna get hung up on Laura Kane, when everyone as a whole has been questioned of their roles and qualifications as I said.

I'm not getting into your whirlwind of distraction with tying everything down to some social frontier to fight on, its been done to death, achieves nothing, and nobody changes their minds on either side of the argument so why waste my time. And no, not everyone who questions her makes them have an inconcious bias, her qualifications are suspect that's all we know. So review it. Moving on.

We don't KNOW that. You assume it. You can call it a distraction if you like - but that is another diversionary tactic. What I'm saying doesn't need to replace the agenda of cleaning out the football department. I'm calling out sexism as I see it, and I make no apology for it. It is a separate agenda to the state of the NMFC. I don't have to justify it in the context of the thread, it stands on its own merits.

 

[Billy Not Really]

We don't KNOW that. You assume it.

I DIDN'T ASSUME IT. I SAID IN MY ORIGINAL POST, THAT I DO NOT KNOW, SO REVIEW IT LIKE EVERYONE ELSE SHOULD. DID YOU NOT READ IT.

You can call it a distraction if you like - but that is another diversionary tactic

Good for you, fighting a good fight about sexism in the workplace where it doesn't exist at the NMFC, on a footy forum. How productive. Sure they'll notice your virtue from here.

What I'm saying doesn't need to replace the agenda of cleaning out the football department. I'm calling out sexism as I see it, and I make no apology for it. It is a separate agenda to the state of the NMFC. I don't have to justify it in the context of the thread, it stands on its own merits.

Wrong. You're accusing everyone, now implying me as sexist despite me giving you the most milquetoast opinion on this entire situation, when i haven't even mentioned laura kane ONCE prior in this thread, I said, bottom line; stop getting distracted, judge all by their own merits and review it as the whole club needs a broom and if that gets people like Laura Kane swept up into it because of a proven poor performance so be it. MAN WHAT A HOT TAKE RIGHT?

And I didn't even want to get stuck into this but you've dragged me into it, unwillingly because you're literally seeking an argument where there is none, like a shark you smell blood ready to accuse me of something when I've done nothing. You're hyperbolic already based on the fact you didn't even read my original point and ready to conjure up your own strawman of me.

So this 'conversation'. Ends here. I'm done.

 

[bendad]

I DIDN'T ASSUME IT. I SAID IN MY ORIGINAL POST, THAT I DO NOT KNOW, SO REVIEW IT LIKE EVERYONE ELSE SHOULD. DID YOU NOT READ IT.



Good for you, fighting a good fight about sexism in the workplace where it doesn't exist at the NMFC, on a footy forum. How productive. Sure they'll notice your virtue from here.



Wrong. You're accusing everyone, now implying me as sexist despite me giving you the most milquetoast opinion on this entire situation, when i haven't even mentioned laura kane ONCE prior in this thread, I said, bottom line; stop getting distracted, judge all by their own merits and review it as the whole club needs a broom and if that gets people like Laura Kane swept up into it because of a proven poor performance so be it. MAN WHAT A HOT TAKE RIGHT?

And I didn't even want to get stuck into this but you've dragged me into it, unwillingly because you're literally seeking an argument where there is none, like a shark you smell blood ready to accuse me of something when I've done nothing. You're hyperbolic already based on the fact you didn't even read my original point and ready to conjure up your own strawman of me.

So this 'conversation'. Ends here. I'm done.

You chose to reply, I did not make you. You said Laura Kane wasn't singled out. I say she was. You said "her qualifications are suspect, that's all we KNOW". That's what I'm saying you assume. I don't care what you said in other threads, I'm posting in this one. I only quoted your posts for those reasons. I'm not commenting on you as a person, my firsy post came before I read anything of yours and wasn't directed at you at all. The distraction argument is absolute, first rate garbage. We can discuss more than one topic at once.

 

[Uncle_Leo]

This thread is as cooked as the club.

 

[wandering123]

This thread is as cooked as the club.

Yeah and the ignore button makes it awfully difficult reading.

 

[ferball]

It's silly virtue signalling bullshit that perpetuates the myth that certain races, genders and persons of certain sexual proclivities are still victims, and it plays to a vacuous society that is overflowing with fake w***ers. If you're a female, gay, aboriginal, then you're not special, you're just another person.

That's flat out bullshit. You're living in dreamland

Just harden up and tell them to go **** themselves, which is what these supposed "victims" should be doing in this contemporary era.

I mean, your response reads to me as being completely ridiculous. Where is this great attack on peoples color or gender occurring? Spare me the bullshit. Social media has turned extreme statistical outliers in to a multi billion dollar industry of bullshit.

I can only make two logical assumptions

1) You're neurotic
2) You have made a personal career out of this drivel.

Get ****ed.

Mr Doomadgee was as victim, as was Mr Ward, Ms Dhu, Mr Ryder. They're all dead now cos they were either murdered or died in custody under suspicious circumstances. **** all justice for them. "Oh they're statistical outliers" No they're the end result of over policing and turning a blind eye to violence and abuse against one group of society.

Same reason we have "Sudo gangs" now running amok. Years of police and public harassment and over policing criminalise kids and teach them to resent authority. Despite over a decade of warning this shit would get worse by "people who made a career out of this drivel."

Anyway you want to bang on about it take it to another thread.

 

[Twinkletoes]

What a thread this has become, Jesus.