Hot Topic Michael Voss - Coaching in 2026. Should he remain beyond that?

[Michael Jezz]

Many people who want Voss gone I suspect were Sayers supporters. If you don't like Voss would you trust Priestly to make the right decision because if you don't you are expecting Wright to do it all himself

 

[blue healer]

Many people who want Voss gone I suspect were Sayers supporters. If you don't like Voss would you trust Priestly to make the right decision because if you don't you are expecting Wright to do it all himself

I want Voss gone and I can assure you that I'm a bloody long way from a Sayers supporter.

 

[JustOneTime]

But see I think this exemplifies what I'm talking about (and I've been guilty of this in the past a lot.. it isn't a personal criticism).

We've all been frustrated at times. It's been a long haul, and we've had some very tough years. That's just a fact.

But I genuinely think as supporters we have forgotten what success looks like.

That group of Curnow/McKay/TDK/Cripps/Walsh/Cerra/Saad/Weitering has been together effectively since 2018 and had three coaches. In that time, they've never won more than 13 games in a season. We have had a couple of nice patches of form, even fluked a prelim final (beating a better opponent) in 2023.

But what evidence is there that is a 'very strong core'? We have 7 years of evidence in a range of contexts that suggests it's... fine? Maybe slightly above average - certainly seems to have peaked as a team that sits somewhere between 5th and 12th depending on form/confidence/injury, but always a step behind the contenders. But generational talent? Come on.

And that's fine, it is a huge step up from where we were. But there are tiers of success, and I feel like any time we get even a whiff that something is building we flip so fast across to 'we should win the premiership' that it sets up inevitable frustration when we don't.

Now we're in a year where we are clearly resetting things a bit - we've had a lot of player turnover, we're carrying more young guys on the list than a contender might, but also bringing some parts of the game together in different ways. A realistic aim this year might be to blood a bunch of young guys, find good form and confidence and just stabilise somewhere between 8th and 12th. That will inevitably mean we probably win half our games and lose half, and some of those won't be great losses. Ok, but that is where we are at.

Surely the hope is that for the first time in two decades we can have a bit of stability and manage the transition from one generation to the next gracefully, without panic? When things looked a wee bit similar in 2012 under Ratten (great group of players but not able to get to the next level) we panicked, brought in Malthouse, made a bunch of stupid decisions (Betts out, Thomas in) and ended up with a horizon that was 'horrific'.

Perhaps just once we should aim for a bit of stability. There's a transition already under way, and we need some courage to stick it out and give Voss a fair shot. Collingwood had a similar year a while back, made some tough list decisions to free up cap flexibility, but importantly they held things together and bounced back pretty quickly. That has to be our goal - back the club and coach, see things through and try to hold a bit of dignity for once (rather than microwaving our memberships, hurling abuse at players, etc)

This is where the conversation gets complicated. I did use the word 'debatable' to cover my view on the group of core players being elite (there are good points for and against). And I'd accept many on here don't think they are elite players. I personally think they are individually elite players with a completely dysfunctional transition plan that cant tie them all together. I tend to agree with the point raised on the couch by Buckley, Brown and Lewis who all believe Carlton are in the group of teams playing antiquated football - not with the current times and severely limited. But then i guess, lots on here don't rate those 3. I personally rate two of them.

Above i didnt really mention removing Vossy...personally, ahead of replacing Vossy I'd rather the media, supporters and anyone who cares to ram down vossy's throat that our transition plan sucks balls. Then i want them to ram down his throat about role players (e.g. stop playing Lord as a half fwd when he doesnt know the role)...so that he can then ram down austin's throat to give me enough of the right balance of role players to fit the current day model of footy.

I'm happy for all to keep their current jobs if they admit what is obvious and adjust / adapt to fix it before this core group of players disappear in the nether. So it summary, Vossy/austin can keep their jobs, but i want them to face the bleeding obvious first and adapt.

 

[Accidental genius]

By far the biggest problem with the club culture right now is the the supporters imo

Instead of supporting the club we are collectively as fickle as the wind. Our whole Bigfooty board is filled with people 'demanding success' and telling us the team 'should' be playing better. Every loss this thread blows up and people want to sack everyone from the President to the bootstrapper just because we had a slow start to the year. And yet we barely even recognise what success looks like at this point.

Voss took over coaching the club in 2022. He took over a team that hadn't made finals in a decade, hadn't made a preliminary final in two decades. 18 months later this thread pops up after... our best season in 10 years? At the time fans were hounding the players race and abusing players, openly calling for Voss to be sacked everywhere in sight. That team went on to make the preliminary final, our best result in 23 years. Two years later and here we are again, openly calling for our most successful coach this millenium to be sacked because... we lost a road game on a 6 day break to Adelaide?

Our supporters are a problem right now. Every loss SEN make a big deal of the 'crazy Carlton fans' that ring up to rant and rave and demand everyone gets sacked. Half the supporters (online, on radio, at games) seem more engaged when we are losing and they can vent. Our post-match threads are longer after losses, and even our victory threads contain their share of the inevitable 'drop whipping boy X'.

It's noticeable at the games, too. I'm an MCC member and it is noticeably bad at our games compared with other big teams. When Collingwood were 3 goals down to Geelong, their fans energised, and their crowd is actually insane right now - the sense of belief and energy is palpable (as is the 'Collingwood' chant - it is like being at a big soccer match). When Collingwood get even a sniff of being on top the crowd at the MCG sucks the life out of the venue and makes it almost impossible for the other team to function. We are the complete opposite. Against Geelong we were 5 goals up and they kicked a goal - you could feel 50,000 collective buttholes tightening and the atmosphere immediately darkened. The Richmond game was even worse. We barely applauded our goals in the first half, and then the reaction to every mistake in the second, and the general sense of disaster... you could see it in the players eyes, they were terrified of making a mistake.

Every club has nuffies, but our crowd culture is bad right now. We can talk about 'culture' all we want but it seems a bit rich to be talking that way at the same time as we're taking potshots at everyone involved in the club and dmeanding they get sacked. That's not what good culture looks like, and the club can't act in a bubble.

I strongly disagree with your take. Sorry but It’s incredibly naive.

The fans have bought tge dream got right behind the club and our attendances have been very good.

The clubs footy department management have been deplorable.

Players deciding when to turn up and when to go through the motions.

I think we need turn our attention to the club - not the fans.

 

[Psychochook]

I tend to agree with the point raised on the couch by Buckley, Brown and Lewis who all believe Carlton are in the group of teams playing antiquated football - not with the current times and severely limited. But then i guess, lots on here don't rate those 3. I personally rate two of them.

Please say it's Buckley and Brown.

 

[JustOneTime]

Please say it's Buckley and Brown.

Gulp!

 

[Soapy V]

By far the biggest problem with the club culture right now is the the supporters imo

Instead of supporting the club we are collectively as fickle as the wind. Our whole Bigfooty board is filled with people 'demanding success' and telling us the team 'should' be playing better. Every loss this thread blows up and people want to sack everyone from the President to the bootstrapper just because we had a slow start to the year. And yet we barely even recognise what success looks like at this point.

Voss took over coaching the club in 2022. He took over a team that hadn't made finals in a decade, hadn't made a preliminary final in two decades. 18 months later this thread pops up after... our best season in 10 years? At the time fans were hounding the players race and abusing players, openly calling for Voss to be sacked everywhere in sight. That team went on to make the preliminary final, our best result in 23 years. Two years later and here we are again, openly calling for our most successful coach this millenium to be sacked because... we lost a road game on a 6 day break to Adelaide?

Our supporters are a problem right now. Every loss SEN make a big deal of the 'crazy Carlton fans' that ring up to rant and rave and demand everyone gets sacked. Half the supporters (online, on radio, at games) seem more engaged when we are losing and they can vent. Our post-match threads are longer after losses, and even our victory threads contain their share of the inevitable 'drop whipping boy X'.

It's noticeable at the games, too. I'm an MCC member and it is noticeably bad at our games compared with other big teams. When Collingwood were 3 goals down to Geelong, their fans energised, and their crowd is actually insane right now - the sense of belief and energy is palpable (as is the 'Collingwood' chant - it is like being at a big soccer match). When Collingwood get even a sniff of being on top the crowd at the MCG sucks the life out of the venue and makes it almost impossible for the other team to function. We are the complete opposite. Against Geelong we were 5 goals up and they kicked a goal - you could feel 50,000 collective buttholes tightening and the atmosphere immediately darkened. The Richmond game was even worse. We barely applauded our goals in the first half, and then the reaction to every mistake in the second, and the general sense of disaster... you could see it in the players eyes, they were terrified of making a mistake.

Every club has nuffies, but our crowd culture is bad right now. We can talk about 'culture' all we want but it seems a bit rich to be talking that way at the same time as we're taking potshots at everyone involved in the club and dmeanding they get sacked. That's not what good culture looks like, and the club can't act in a bubble.

This makes NO sense to me

 

[95blues]

Our fans are the same as our club leaders. Thats the problem.

Something not working? Easy - buy whoever was best of the best in their role at a successful club, extra points if it was 3+ years ago.

Not learning.

 

[The Flying Doormat]

By far the biggest problem with the club culture right now is the the supporters imo

Instead of supporting the club we are collectively as fickle as the wind. Our whole Bigfooty board is filled with people 'demanding success' and telling us the team 'should' be playing better. Every loss this thread blows up and people want to sack everyone from the President to the bootstrapper just because we had a slow start to the year. And yet we barely even recognise what success looks like at this point.

Voss took over coaching the club in 2022. He took over a team that hadn't made finals in a decade, hadn't made a preliminary final in two decades. 18 months later this thread pops up after... our best season in 10 years? At the time fans were hounding the players race and abusing players, openly calling for Voss to be sacked everywhere in sight. That team went on to make the preliminary final, our best result in 23 years. Two years later and here we are again, openly calling for our most successful coach this millenium to be sacked because... we lost a road game on a 6 day break to Adelaide?

Our supporters are a problem right now. Every loss SEN make a big deal of the 'crazy Carlton fans' that ring up to rant and rave and demand everyone gets sacked. Half the supporters (online, on radio, at games) seem more engaged when we are losing and they can vent. Our post-match threads are longer after losses, and even our victory threads contain their share of the inevitable 'drop whipping boy X'.

It's noticeable at the games, too. I'm an MCC member and it is noticeably bad at our games compared with other big teams. When Collingwood were 3 goals down to Geelong, their fans energised, and their crowd is actually insane right now - the sense of belief and energy is palpable (as is the 'Collingwood' chant - it is like being at a big soccer match). When Collingwood get even a sniff of being on top the crowd at the MCG sucks the life out of the venue and makes it almost impossible for the other team to function. We are the complete opposite. Against Geelong we were 5 goals up and they kicked a goal - you could feel 50,000 collective buttholes tightening and the atmosphere immediately darkened. The Richmond game was even worse. We barely applauded our goals in the first half, and then the reaction to every mistake in the second, and the general sense of disaster... you could see it in the players eyes, they were terrified of making a mistake.

Every club has nuffies, but our crowd culture is bad right now. We can talk about 'culture' all we want but it seems a bit rich to be talking that way at the same time as we're taking potshots at everyone involved in the club and dmeanding they get sacked. That's not what good culture looks like, and the club can't act in a bubble.

Yes, if the fans accepted mediocrity we'd be flag favourites. I see the logic.

 

[jackn]

It's noticeable at the games, too. I'm an MCC member and it is noticeably bad at our games compared with other big teams. When Collingwood were 3 goals down to Geelong, their fans energised, and their crowd is actually insane right now - the sense of belief and energy is palpable (as is the 'Collingwood' chant - it is like being at a big soccer match). When Collingwood get even a sniff of being on top the crowd at the MCG sucks the life out of the venue and makes it almost impossible for the other team to function. We are the complete opposite. Against Geelong we were 5 goals up and they kicked a goal - you could feel 50,000 collective buttholes tightening and the atmosphere immediately darkened. The Richmond game was even worse. We barely applauded our goals in the first half, and then the reaction to every mistake in the second, and the general sense of disaster... you could see it in the players eyes, they were terrified of making a mistake.

Bit of a head scratcher this one, isn't it. Any ideas about what could be causing it?

A team know for final quarter comebacks over the last few years on one hand.

A team famous for inconsistency and for giving up more 5 goal runs than just about anyone else in history on the other. That same team had been in front at half time of every game yet managed to lose every one against AFL quality opposition.

Really is hard to fathom

 

[btdg]

Yes, if the fans accepted mediocrity we'd be flag favourites. I see the logic.

We are a bog average team so far this year. There's no evidence to suggest otherwise, and everything from on-field results to the list profile to player and team ratings and statistics says we are a middle of the road team.

We are going to win a few games , lose a few. That is what needs to be accepted.

The question is then the response. Do you rant and rave after every loss, sit in the crowd at matches openly bagging players from your own team and barely applauding goals, call up to talkback radio and demand everyone in sight gets sacked? Or can we show a little bit of perspective and support and actually rally around the team and get behind them for once?

It matters, a lot. Off field, the club has an internal culture notorious for factions and backstabbing. Teague has talked about how he felt his job was insecure from day 1. He didn't even get a single non-Covid season. Ratten was a club legend and got knifed after one bad year for a new messiah. But those factions only get breathing space because 'the fans are livid', because the media knows it can inflame a Carlton shit storm and get clicks and views every time we drop a game under .500

On field - consider the abhorrent way Sam Docherty is being treated by fans right now. He is a superstar, has been through hell and back, and the slightest lack of form and the vitriol he is copping is crazy. How long did it take Nick Haynes to become a whipping boy? One bad game and a couple of mistakes? We had fans abusing players going down the players race after a round 1 loss. What sort of environment does this create?

The joke is that the 'mediocrity' you talk about accepting is a big step up from where we have been for most of the last two decades. 'Sack everyone and demand the best' has repeatedly taken us backwards and it is going to again if we aren't careful here.

 

[btdg]

Bit of a head scratcher this one, isn't it. Any ideas about what could be causing it?

A team know for final quarter comebacks over the last few years on one hand.

A team famous for inconsistency and for giving up more 5 goal runs than just about anyone else in history on the other. That same team had been in front at half time of every game yet managed to lose every one against AFL quality opposition.

Really is hard to fathom

We are 11-7-1 in close games (under 10pts) with Voss as coach. 0-4 against Collingwood but otherwise outstanding when the game is tight.

We are actually really good in close games, probably behind only Collingwood.

So why is the atmosphere so different? It is palpable and has got worse in my experience across this run of Voss games despite having a lot of success.

There seems a genuine wish from Carlton supporters for things to be worse than they are, like crisis is the only thing we know, or like a defence mechanism

Do we give up 5 goal runs? Maybe. Perhaps we would give up less if the crowd didn't immediately revert to bagging out players every time we concede?

 

[Flaggers22]

It's noticeable at the games, too. I'm an MCC member and it is noticeably bad at our games compared with other big teams. When Collingwood were 3 goals down to Geelong, their fans energised, and their crowd is actually insane right now - the sense of belief and energy is palpable (as is the 'Collingwood' chant - it is like being at a big soccer match). When Collingwood get even a sniff of being on top the crowd at the MCG sucks the life out of the venue and makes it almost impossible for the other team to function. We are the complete opposite. Against Geelong we were 5 goals up and they kicked a goal - you could feel 50,000 collective buttholes tightening and the atmosphere immediately darkened. The Richmond game was even worse. We barely applauded our goals in the first half, and then the reaction to every mistake in the second, and the general sense of disaster... you could see it in the players eyes, they were terrified of making a mistake.

Excellent point. So basically, if we want to win a premiership, we need to convince the Collingwood supporters to start barracking for Carlton. Moreover, if we want Collingwood to start losing, we have to start supporting them.

 

[RAPPA]

We are 11-7-1 in close games (under 10pts) with Voss as coach. 0-4 against Collingwood but otherwise outstanding when the game is tight.

We are actually really good in close games, probably behind only Collingwood.

So why is the atmosphere so different? It is palpable and has got worse in my experience across this run of Voss games despite having a lot of success.

There seems a genuine wish from Carlton supporters for things to be worse than they are, like crisis is the only thing we know, or like a defence mechanism

Do we give up 5 goal runs? Maybe. Perhaps we would give up less if the crowd didn't immediately revert to bagging out players every time we concede?

Yes, we have improved. But we must be better than what we have showed. The run of mediocrity since the 90s is not looking at ending anytime soon.

At present, we are a BOG middle of the road side. Frustrations are heightened because there was an upward trajectory from 2022 to 2023, notwithstanding concerning patches of poor form in both years.

2024 comes around and we are brimming with confidence and heightened expectation. And for the first half of the year things are looking ok and it appears we are tracking in an upward direction. But then it all came crashing down, culminating in a pathetic finals appearance that was gifted to us on account of port beating freo.

This year has continued on from that train wreck. In the space of what, 15 games (?), we have registered 2 nothing wins against each of the Roos and Eagles, and a really good win against the Cats, before getting smashed by the Crows.

Maybe to an extent we had over inflated expectations. Maybe we overestimated our list. System beats talent and unfortunately our performances and inconsistency do not suggest any semblance of system based football.

As for close games, it is subjective based on the metric adopted. Of all the 5 losses this year, I’d say all but the Pies and Crows games were close games lost because in each of those 3 losses we had our chances.

Last year in that dumpster fire post round 17, imo the losses to the Saints, Pies, Port, Dogs and GWS were all close losses.

I'm not pinning this all on Voss. I think the brand of footy we play is either not fit for purpose in today's game, or we don't have the cattle to be malleable. Yes, the contest is important, but so is run and carry etc. We are also littered with too many conditional / flaky players who can't be relied upon week in, week out.

 

[LemmingMaster]

There is an element of list management with regards to our potentially outdated playing style.

Hawks over the years seem to add elite kicks, speed and small forwards to the mix and we missed the boat on the change in direction.

Amon, Massimo, Battle, Barrass, Ginni, Watson, Moore.... There are some good ball users and some elite small forwards, these are two areas where we are very lacking.

Moltop, Durdin, Williams, Fantasia, Acres, Wilson, Binns, Evans, White.... We have recruited wingers that have big question marks on their kicking and a few small forwards that have just not hit the mark currently.

Your inside mids don't need to be elite kicks, but you want your outside players and small forwards to possess elite attributes.

Voss may be struggling with the cattle to implement a different game plan. We're trying with the likes of JSOS in the backline (He has high footy IQ and very good kicking skills) Hollands is attempting to provide the speed, Boyd hopefully will get a run and provide better kicking skills.

A player like Binns might find the ball, but the opposition love it in his hands.

Newman going down is a huge loss, one of the few good kicks in our backhalf.

 

[btdg]

Yes, we have improved. But we must be better than what we have showed. The run of mediocrity since the 90s is not looking at ending anytime soon.

At present, we are a BOG middle of the road side. Frustrations are heightened because there was an upward trajectory from 2022 to 2023, notwithstanding concerning patches of poor form in both years.

2024 comes around and we are brimming with confidence and heightened expectation. And for the first half of the year things are looking ok and it appears we are tracking in an upward direction. But then it all came crashing down, culminating in a pathetic finals appearance that was gifted to us on account of port beating freo.

This year has continued on from that train wreck. In the space of what, 15 games (?), we have registered 2 nothing wins against each of the Roos and Eagles, and a really good win against the Cats, before getting smashed by the Crows.

Maybe to an extent we had over inflated expectations. Maybe we overestimated our list. System beats talent and unfortunately our performances and inconsistency do not suggest any semblance of system based football.

As for close games, it is subjective based on the metric adopted. Of all the 5 losses this year, I’d say all but the Pies and Crows games were close games lost because in each of those 3 losses we had our chances.

Last year in that dumpster fire post round 17, imo the losses to the Saints, Pies, Port, Dogs and GWS were all close losses.

I'm not pinning this all on Voss. I think the brand of footy we play is either not fit for purpose in today's game, or we don't have the cattle to be malleable. Yes, the contest is important, but so is run and carry etc. We are also littered with too many conditional / flaky players who can't be relied upon week in, week out.

Progress is not linear, though, and right through this is exactly the extreme language that concerns me. Our expectations are always heightened, always inflated. But then when it isn't perfect is is 'crashing down', 'pathetic'. The things we do actually achieve (making finals two years in a row) are 'gifted' or 'nothing wins'.

I think there's another less chaotic story in there under Voss.

In 2022 we won 12 games, our best result in 11 years, under a new coach. We narrowly missed finals after losing consecutive games in the dying seconds, which unfortunately dropped us to 8th on percentage.

In 2023, we made only minor changes to the list. This time, however, we WON two games by less than a goal in the last 3 weeks, which took us to 13-1-9. Made finals, and a combination of closing out games well and a lot of luck took us to a prelim. Good job on getting there, but 'upward trajectory' - nah, in hindsight it was just the other side of the coin from 2022.

In 2024, we had basically the same list again. First month was actually pretty ordinary, but we were lucky - (very lucky wins vs Brisbane/Richmond/Freo). Had a good patch of form mid-year, then a terrible injury run to finish up combined with some bad luck (as you note, a bunch of close losses including a missed shot after the siren vs Collingwood). Finished on 13 wins, lost a final away from home to the eventual premier.

That tenure is both incredibly consistent (12, 13.5, 13 wins) and our best 3-year run this millennium. But also, anyone who thought we were a premiership team at any point in the last three years is definitely guilty of inflated expectations, because we never showed nearly the depth, maturity or raw talent to elevate ourselves into the top 4, let alone win a premiership (and those two things are very different, as Brisbane have found. We're basically still two jumps off a premiership.

Then this off-season represents a real shift. For the first time under Voss we made some really significant (and tough) list decisions, moving on a heap of experience - Kennedy, Martin, Marchbank, Cuningham, Owies and even Carroll. We brought in... youth - traded up into the top 5 in the draft, brought in multiple F/S picks, but no-one really who moves the needle (unless you count Haynes as a stop-gap). It's hurt us having Newman/Smith and Kemp all lost for the year, as we don't have the depth any more.

We've also changed our style of game, noticeably. We're running it out of defence better, our forward setup has been better, we're playing a lot more ground balls, etc. Last year we only had three players average a goal per match - all marking targets (Curnow, McKay, Owies). This year we have 6 including White, Williams and Durdin (all smalls) plus Motlop who has kicked 6.16 (ie: will probably be 7 who hit that mark by season's end). Outside of last week, we have been the hardest team in the competition to move the ball against end to end, and been top 4 for moving it ourselves (but struggled to convert inside 50s). Those are premiership attributes.

It's a significant shift but one that comes with a heap of ups and downs, but that's how a transition year works. Last week was a down week, but also against a bogey opposition, on the road, on a 6 day break. It happens. Overall, we are in the position of going back to hopefully relaunch and go forward.

This is a thread about sacking Voss, and it pops up every time we lose. Are we really going to sack the most successful coach we have in the 2000s after one transition year, because if so we have learnt nothing from what happened with Ratten/Malthouse (and even Brittain/Pagan in some respects). Are we going to get super angry every time we lose a game? Becuase if so, we're likely setting ourselves up for a massive roller coaster.

 

[Gointocarlton]

Progress is not linear, though, and right through this is exactly the extreme language that concerns me. Our expectations are always heightened, always inflated. But then when it isn't perfect is is 'crashing down', 'pathetic'. The things we do actually achieve (making finals two years in a row) are 'gifted' or 'nothing wins'.

I think there's another less chaotic story in there under Voss.

In 2022 we won 12 games, our best result in 11 years, under a new coach. We narrowly missed finals after losing consecutive games in the dying seconds, which unfortunately dropped us to 8th on percentage.

In 2023, we made only minor changes to the list. This time, however, we WON two games by less than a goal in the last 3 weeks, which took us to 13-1-9. Made finals, and a combination of closing out games well and a lot of luck took us to a prelim. Good job on getting there, but 'upward trajectory' - nah, in hindsight it was just the other side of the coin from 2022.

In 2024, we had basically the same list again. First month was actually pretty ordinary, but we were lucky - (very lucky wins vs Brisbane/Richmond/Freo). Had a good patch of form mid-year, then a terrible injury run to finish up combined with some bad luck (as you note, a bunch of close losses including a missed shot after the siren vs Collingwood). Finished on 13 wins, lost a final away from home to the eventual premier.

That tenure is both incredibly consistent (12, 13.5, 13 wins) and our best 3-year run this millennium. But also, anyone who thought we were a premiership team at any point in the last three years is definitely guilty of inflated expectations, because we never showed nearly the depth, maturity or raw talent to elevate ourselves into the top 4, let alone win a premiership (and those two things are very different, as Brisbane have found. We're basically still two jumps off a premiership.

Then this off-season represents a real shift. For the first time under Voss we made some really significant (and tough) list decisions, moving on a heap of experience - Kennedy, Martin, Marchbank, Cuningham, Owies and even Carroll. We brought in... youth - traded up into the top 5 in the draft, brought in multiple F/S picks, but no-one really who moves the needle (unless you count Haynes as a stop-gap). It's hurt us having Newman/Smith and Kemp all lost for the year, as we don't have the depth any more.

We've also changed our style of game, noticeably. We're running it out of defence better, our forward setup has been better, we're playing a lot more ground balls, etc. Last year we only had three players average a goal per match - all marking targets (Curnow, McKay, Owies). This year we have 6 including White, Williams and Durdin (all smalls) plus Motlop who has kicked 6.16 (ie: will probably be 7 who hit that mark by season's end). Outside of last week, we have been the hardest team in the competition to move the ball against end to end, and been top 4 for moving it ourselves (but struggled to convert inside 50s). Those are premiership attributes.

It's a significant shift but one that comes with a heap of ups and downs, but that's how a transition year works. Last week was a down week, but also against a bogey opposition, on the road, on a 6 day break. It happens. Overall, we are in the position of going back to hopefully relaunch and go forward.

This is a thread about sacking Voss, and it pops up every time we lose. Are we really going to sack the most successful coach we have in the 2000s after one transition year, because if so we have learnt nothing from what happened with Ratten/Malthouse (and even Brittain/Pagan in some respects). Are we going to get super angry every time we lose a game? Becuase if so, we're likely setting ourselves up for a massive roller coaster.

You forgot Teague/Bolton. If there were premierships handed out for sacking coaches, we'd be at the top of the tree. I'd like to think we have learnt something since then and that cycle will not repeat.

 

[gbatman]

You forgot Teague/Bolton. If there were premierships handed out for sacking coaches, we'd be at the top of the tree. I'd like to think we have learnt something since then and that cycle will not repeat.

I think this is a big deal for us. Anyone the better clubs want they get and we would be bottom of the list as a destination club for coaches.

We got Voss who would not be sort after and we put a whole heap of guys around him who were on the way out at their current clubs and on the verge of being out of the coaching game.

I don't think there are many willing to coach Carlton. That's on us.

Surely we have not meant to do what we have done. In regards to the coaching group we have put together, it's pretty damn poor and performed as such.

I think we are in a phase of trying to fix our reputation and getting coaches to trust us again. Which means sticking with people who are performing poorly.

 

[The Blue Weirdo]

This is a thread about sacking Voss, and it pops up every time we lose. Are we really going to sack the most successful coach we have in the 2000s after one transition year, because if so we have learnt nothing from what happened with Ratten/Malthouse (and even Brittain/Pagan in some respects). Are we going to get super angry every time we lose a game? Becuase if so, we're likely setting ourselves up for a massive roller coaster.

Is it possible for this team to display an even bigger roller coaster of form than we have under Voss?

 

[Benaly28]

You do have to start somewhere. Starts with new CEO that is Football focussed and then starts with Football Boss then decisions on Coaches etc need to be made

Just sacking a coach or some assistants would be worst possible move IMO if we don't address entire department

I’ve said this before but I think Wright is going to be very ruthless.

And I’m fine with that.

 

[Gointocarlton]

I think this is a big deal for us. Anyone the better clubs want they get and we would be bottom of the list as a destination club for coaches.

We got Voss who would not be sort after and we put a whole heap of guys around him who were on the way out at their current clubs and on the verge of being out of the coaching game.

I don't think there are many willing to coach Carlton. That's on us.

Surely we have not meant to do what we have done. In regards to the coaching group we have put together, it's pretty damn poor and performed as such.

I think we are in a phase of trying to fix our reputation and getting coaches to trust us again. Which means sticking with people who are performing poorly.

My view is AFL coaches need to start somewhere, you cant always get an experienced coach or a messiah.
What's important is the structure and support the club puts around a young coach. Voss was a little different in that he'd had a crack in the big chair and failed probably because he didn't do a proper apprenticeship. Going to PA under Hinkley served him well or at least gave him a better chance second time around.
I think the assistants, mainly the fwd and def line coaches have been poor selections. A Richardson, Williams, Craig type head of footy or coaching director/mentor would have been handy. I think it's too late for the latter now, we need some high quality assistants who are guns in their lines.
IMO the List Management side of things has been extremely poor has done all the coaches we've had recently no favours at all. Our reserves are terrible and provide virtually zero cover when we have injuries or seniors perform poorly.
It will be interesting to see how the year pans out and what happens at seasons end.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

We are a bog average team so far this year. There's no evidence to suggest otherwise, and everything from on-field results to the list profile to player and team ratings and statistics says we are a middle of the road team.

Our CEO rated us top 4 at the start of the year...

We are going to win a few games , lose a few. That is what needs to be accepted.

We need to accept that 4 years into Voss' tenure, we're a middle of the road side. Gotcha.

The question is then the response. Do you rant and rave after every loss, sit in the crowd at matches openly bagging players from your own team and barely applauding goals, call up to talkback radio and demand everyone in sight gets sacked? Or can we show a little bit of perspective and support and actually rally around the team and get behind them for once?

You're talking about a handful of people here...

Not everyone is calling talkback radio and ranting on.

What's this nonsense about getting behind the team for once? Record memberships, record crowds... the supporters have backed this club to the hilt... only to be constantly let down...

It matters, a lot. Off field, the club has an internal culture notorious for factions and backstabbing. Teague has talked about how he felt his job was insecure from day 1. He didn't even get a single non-Covid season. Ratten was a club legend and got knifed after one bad year for a new messiah. But those factions only get breathing space because 'the fans are livid', because the media knows it can inflame a Carlton shit storm and get clicks and views every time we drop a game under .500

I agree, the board sucks. Weak leadership which leads to weak management and bullshit like this. Nothing to do with fans though, Teague couldn't coach... that much was blatantly obvious. Agree Ratten was really hard done by.

On field - consider the abhorrent way Sam Docherty is being treated by fans right now. He is a superstar, has been through hell and back, and the slightest lack of form and the vitriol he is copping is crazy. How long did it take Nick Haynes to become a whipping boy? One bad game and a couple of mistakes? We had fans abusing players going down the players race after a round 1 loss. What sort of environment does this create?

Abhorrent? Are you serious? The guy is a dead set liability and he knows that... You select him, he's not going to give up, he will give his all... but time is up... another thing that is blatantly obvious.

Round 1 was an outright disaster. It was a sign of how bad this team really is. After all the hype, all the nonsense about top 4 they gave us.... that

Abusing players down the race isn't something that I can understand, no excuse for that stupid behaviour. But you have to remember how many Carlton supporters there are.. generalising as if the majority of fans are doing this is ridiculous.

The joke is that the 'mediocrity' you talk about accepting is a big step up from where we have been for most of the last two decades. 'Sack everyone and demand the best' has repeatedly taken us backwards and it is going to again if we aren't careful here.

"Persevere for the sake of it' isn't any better than 'Sack everyone and demand the best'

 

[Moon]

What is all this about blaming the supporters?

After 30 years of failure ... the/us fans are entitled to be peed orf and desperate for success.
It didn't happen quickly for Bomber at Geelong or Dimma at Richmond with both were looking down the barrel before finally achieving success ... so jumping up and down peed orf and demanding isn't abnormal.

I reckon there'd be a few unhappy Essendon fans out there as well
I'd like to see the Vicco Big 4 up in the Top 8 slugging it out in September .... ok ... and the Dees

 

[Accidental genius]

What is all this about blaming the supporters?

After 30 years of failure ... the/us fans are entitled to be peed orf and desperate for success.
It didn't happen quickly for Bomber at Geelong or Dimma at Richmond with both were looking down the barrel before finally achieving success ... so jumping up and down peed orf and demanding isn't abnormal.

I reckon there'd be a few unhappy Essendon fans out there as well ... but yeah ... stuff them

Its like any organization. There can be so much inefficiencies yet managers/leaders fail to rectify simple issues due to egos, blaming each other or petty little excuses.

The clubs that sit down and work through issues ultimately see success.

Tiggies cats hawks filth and even the dogs all achieved success on the back of their clubs sitting down with a passionate group and forming a mission and a plan to achieve success.

 

[Benaly28]

I’m not saying to get rid of Voss but gee horse and Simpson are so good with their analysis on fox.