List Mgmt. 2025 List Management 📃

[Blue since 72]

Agree, but will the match committee pick him once he is ready, they didn't last year in the elim final

That final was a watershed moment for incompetency in selection. Hopefully it will never be repeated.

 

[katmanblue]

Wanna go into further detail?

Nah, yeah

 

[Pablito]

Depending on the haul, I'm not against moving both Charlie and Walsh on.

Everyone has a price.

Buddy left Hawthorn and they won a premiership. Albeit they were already a better team than what we are right now. But it proves no player should be considered sacred.

 

[BlueJet]

Soz - at work.

H has always lacked strength in the contest. I’ve banged on about it for years - I think he’s a lovely guy but he is a very meek 202cm key forward. It’s uninspiring. Goes to ground far too easily, gets pushed out of contests far too easily.

On top of that, he an awful decision maker. Also been banging on about this for years - see his two horrendous handballs last weekend as prime examples.

He has physical attributes but lacks nous and isn’t such a naturally gifted footballer imo.

Charlie is a brilliantly skilled player, has athleticism, stands strong in a contest and is clearly an all-round more gifted footballer.

Charlie can do more but I still think he appears more exposed defensively compared to other KPFs bc our smalls are so poor/slow defensively… and also, bc they are so poor offensively, defensive issues are more pronounced. H is not better defensively imo either - can almost count on H giving a free kick away when he tries to defend.

In my mind, they are worlds apart.

It’s a shame we’ve not seen either of them in well setup forward lines though, with the support of gun smalls.

That's fine & good response too - thank you.

The same could be said for Charlie. He tends to wrestle & when that fails he goes hunting for cheapies be that via a free kick or a by sneaking out the back. It's part of the reason for his no show in finals to date. Less calls & more disciplined opposition.
Does he create crumbs or avenues for players to attack? no.

I've a mate involved at another club & their stance is that we'll kick to Charlie 15+ times, he'll kick ~3 goals but it'll clog up our forward line & serve as a launching pad for their defence to counterattack, they hate the idea of H 1v1 deep because they dont have a match up for him & they dont rebound off him as easily, resulting in repeat entries or f50 stoppages.

Charlie is exposed defensively because he doesn't put the effort in, that a 200cm+ H, smokes him defensively is embarrassing. The days of full-forwards not working up the ground defensively ended when the likes of Gehrig, Lloyd & Fev were playing.. there's no excuse.

Charlie may well be more talented but his laziness/inability to move up the ground makes up more predictable & easier to defend because everyone knows where the ball is headed.
With that in mind, I think he'd take his game to another level if he channelled Jezz Cameron who became more of a matchwinner when he played more of a roaming role & using his abundance of skill to quickly hit targets working back toward goal, opening up the defence.

Happy to agree to disagree though, of course.
Cheers mate

 

[Jatz]

Everyone has a price.

Buddy left Hawthorn and they won a premiership. Albeit they were already a better team than what we are right now. But it proves no player should be considered sacred.

The only player I'd really consider 'sacred' on our list at the moment is Weiters.

Every other player I could make the argument for.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

If you look at the way he played in 2023 (his 2nd year in the system) you can see that he has the tools - clean and skilled, but being inexperienced, he lots of quiet periods.

He now looks devoid of confidence and too focussed on defensive pressure which has stifled his natural attacking flair and. Instincts.

Best remedy imo is a few weeks in the VFL to get his confidence back.

He has 0 athletic attributes to be an exceptional small forward. 'Clean and skilled'... He fumbles as much as Owies and gets ran down every 2nd touch before he's been able to get a kick off.

Needs to find a new position, small forward isn't his go at AFL level when he has an actual defender on him. I'd be sending him down back or telling him to work on his midfield craft full time in the VFL for a while.

 

[JK61]

He has 0 athletic attributes to be an exceptional small forward. 'Clean and skilled'... He fumbles as much as Owies and gets ran down every 2nd touch before he's been able to get a kick off.

Needs to find a new position, small forward isn't his go at AFL level when he has an actual defender on him. I'd be sending him down back or telling him to work on his midfield craft full time in the VFL for a while.

Have a look at the goals he kicked in 2023 - if they are not clean and skilled we obviously have a different definition.

He is not the same player now, maybe he has put on too much or lost a yard, but is definitely playing with no confidence.

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

Gary Lyon has a point, Goodwin made changes to personnel and game plan to fix Melbourne’s problems especially forward entries. If he can do it in season surely Voss can do the same we have two Coleman medallist’s to work with.

I wouldn’t bank on it…

 

[Gavstar]

I wouldn’t bank on it…

Friend at the GWS game couldn't quite believe how shocking our forward system was despite hearing about our problems beforehand.

 

[kreuze_missile]

Docherty wants to play on?

The ****…?

 

[Lukeblueboy]

Docherty wants to play on?

The ****…?

Thought he was a lot better on the weekend. Building into the season maybe? Gone back to the reserves and got to work on his craft and blowing the cobwebs out.

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

Friend at the GWS game couldn't quite believe how shocking our forward system was despite hearing about our problems beforehand.

Says it all doesn’t it, nothing like being at the ground and watching us deploying the same old lack of methodical creativity even to a normal level…

 

[Jatz]

Docherty wants to play on?

The ****…?

Our VFL side could use some strengthening next season.

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

Docherty wants to play on?

The ****…?

Just watched that, geez…

 

[kreuze_missile]

Our VFL side could use some strengthening next season.

I’m not sure Lemmy wants to be on the end of anything coming from Doc’s boot. Not that he can actually hit a target.. but you get the point..

 

[sweethoney]

Docherty wants to play on?

The ****…?

People were laughing that Sidebottom wanted to play this after the poor year he had last year

 

[kreuze_missile]

People were laughing that Sidebottom wanted to play this after the poor year he had last year

Docherty’s been average for nearly a decade.

2017 was a long time ago.

 

[JJBagger]

Docherty’s been average for nearly a decade.

2017 was a long time ago.

Nearly a decade is harsh. He was in AA form halfway through 2020, and was one of our best players in 2022 and 2023

 

[sweethoney]

Nearly a decade is harsh. He was in AA form halfway through 2020, and was one of our best players in 2022 and 2023

Runner up in the b and f in 2022

 

[sweethoney]

Docherty’s been average for nearly a decade.

2017 was a long time ago.

 

[charred_fate]

That's fine & good response too - thank you.

The same could be said for Charlie. He tends to wrestle & when that fails he goes hunting for cheapies be that via a free kick or a by sneaking out the back. It's part of the reason for his no show in finals to date. Less calls & more disciplined opposition.
Does he create crumbs or avenues for players to attack? no.

I've a mate involved at another club & their stance is that we'll kick to Charlie 15+ times, he'll kick ~3 goals but it'll clog up our forward line & serve as a launching pad for their defence to counterattack, they hate the idea of H 1v1 deep because they dont have a match up for him & they dont rebound off him as easily, resulting in repeat entries or f50 stoppages.

Charlie is exposed defensively because he doesn't put the effort in, that a 200cm+ H, smokes him defensively is embarrassing. The days of full-forwards not working up the ground defensively ended when the likes of Gehrig, Lloyd & Fev were playing.. there's no excuse.

Charlie may well be more talented but his laziness/inability to move up the ground makes up more predictable & easier to defend because everyone knows where the ball is headed.
With that in mind, I think he'd take his game to another level if he channelled Jezz Cameron who became more of a matchwinner when he played more of a roaming role & using his abundance of skill to quickly hit targets working back toward goal, opening up the defence.

Happy to agree to disagree though, of course.
Cheers mate

No worries. There are several things that I disagree with above but I’ll point out that I’ve been one of the louder critics of Charlie over recent seasons too (and continue to be), for some of the reasons you mention. So I’m by no means a Charlie fan boy.

I’d love Charlie to play like Jez but reality is that Jez has ridiculous speed and athleticism for a guy his size. It’s a comparison often made, but I don’t think he can do what Jez does. He is possibly stronger in a physical one-on-one but aside from that, I think JC has him covered. And JC is an all-time great so nothing wrong with that.

That’s not to say that Charlie shouldn’t be up the ground more, but I don’t think endurance counts for as much as speed these days - defenders are too good at holding their positions, switching between each other etc.

Anyway, I’d be very surprised if any list manager/recruiter would choose/keep H over Charlie. I see them as poles apart on almost every relevant footy metric but we’ll see.

I do feel for both of them. Playing in our forward line would wear anyone down eventually.

I think Charlie has more chance of going next level when we get a quality, fast small/medium forward line with quicker entries (and hopefully better users delivering too) - he has the craftiness and foot skills to gel with that, which I don’t see from H.

 

[ray8182]

Jesse Motlop - I don't see it.

Admittedly still young and has time on his side, but I don't think he has the tools to succeed. My #1 biggest fear is that he's not one-touch.

He's stepped up his pressure game this year, which I love. But he's not quick, clean or super skilled. I can't see him making it as a permanent small forward or a high half-forward.

Tell me I'm wrong. Please.

Right now Jesse doesn’t look up to it.

Gave him a mulligan for last year because of injury. Previous years saw some positive signs.

Expected that with a full preseason and an improvement in running capacity, he would really show something. Instead lve been extremely underwhelmed.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Need to move past worrying about guys like Motlop and Young...

The millionaires club are a bigger problem...

Thankfully, we're getting rid of one this year. I'm crossing my fingers Wright understands how important it is to get rid of another one this year too...

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Need to move past worrying about guys like Motlop and Young...

The millionaires club are a bigger problem...

Thankfully, we're getting rid of one this year. I'm crossing my fingers Wright understands how important it is to get rid of another one this year too...

The millionaires club's lives would be much easier if they didn't have duds like Motlop and Young playing next to them

 

[Blue_Fusion]

The millionaires club's lives would be much easier if they didn't have duds like Motlop and Young playing next to them

Geez mate... they're putting in fa effort and getting paid $1M+ / season... how much easier do they want it?