Analysis The Rebuilds of Carlton and Fremantle and their future prospects

[The Feeder Club]

Thread gets funnier every preseason, and that's even with Freo underachieving for the past 3 years

 

[Fadge]

Thread gets funnier every preseason, and that's even with Freo underachieving for the past 3 years

What handicap does Freo have to give Carlton in 2026, in a 'who will be better' discussion?

I suggested an 8 game handicap for Collingwood in 2026. Suggest it should be similar for Freo.

 

[LeBronco]

Thread gets funnier every preseason, and that's even with Freo underachieving for the past 3 years

Carlton have won twice as many finals as Fremantle in recent years.

 

[The Feeder Club]

Carlton have won twice as many finals as Fremantle in recent years.

Yeah newsflash, we've underachieved as I said.
4 years after this thread started though, is there a single sane person that would take Carlton's list over ours? It's a no brainer who has rebuilt better. Whether we can take advantage of it is a legitimate question

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Walshy making a tit of himself again.
Still believing in that cactus list.

 

[Freomaniac]

Carlton have won twice as many finals as Fremantle in recent years.

Irrelevant in a way.

Dockers won a final In 2022. Of the 23 blokes in that side, 7 of those blokes were 21 years old or younger.

Yeah Carlton won 2 finals in 2023. Their last finals win was 2013. How many guys from that 2013 finals win lasted long enough to be in those 2023 finals wins? None.

Dockers last finals win was in 2022. Our last finals win before that was 2015. Only David Mundy and Michael Walters were in that 2015 finals win that played in that 2022 Elim final. I would of added Nathan Fyfe but he didn't play in the 2022 Elim final as he was injured

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Walshy making a tit of himself again.
Still believing in that cactus list.

Where have I said that?

 

[Shueygod]

Genuine question on that - correct me if I'm wrong but here's who I reckon are the A & B graders. ? are where I don't see a matchup.

Weitering - Pearce (pretty even)
Saad - Clarke (Clarke)
? - Cox
? - Ryan
Walsh - Serong (close but gonna say Serong)
Cripps - Young (Cripps but mainly due to injury)
Cerra - Brayshaw (Brayshaw)
TDK - Jackson (Jackson)
Curnow - Treacy (Curnow)
Harry - Voss (Harry just due to Coleman, but honestly think Voss is a more dominant player)
? - Amiss
Owies (think he was your best small) - Bolton
? - Reid.

Even if you disagree on Harry, it still swings Freo's way; that 2023 team was paper thin after the top 4 or 5.

Amiss?
He’s barely an AFL player let alone an A/B grade.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Where have I said that?

Gassing up a Carlton list that won a paltry 13 games in 2023 as being as good as Freo in 2025.
Thinking that Cheesy's list of player comparisons is in any way favourable to the crabs from Princes Park is also laughable.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Gassing up a Carlton list that won a paltry 13 games in 2023 as being as good as Freo in 2025.
Thinking that Cheesy's list of player comparisons is in any way favourable to the crabs from Princes Park is also laughable.

Get some help George, your obsession with the Blues is genuinely concerning.

 

[Mr Cheese]

He's 22 and had a rough year - was pink capped in training for the whole season so assume had some kind of injury. Still kicked 32 and had a significant impact late on in a few games towards the end of the season though, which bodes well.

Kicked 81 goals in his first 47 games before this year. Whilst I'd agree he'd be looking to improve this year, I'm pretty happy putting him in the A/B category.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

He's 22 and had a rough year - was pink capped in training for the whole season so assume had some kind of injury. Still kicked 32 and had a significant impact late on in a few games towards the end of the season though, which bodes well.

Kicked 81 goals in his first 47 games before this year. Whilst I'd agree he'd be looking to improve this year, I'm pretty happy putting him in the A/B category.

If Amiss is an A/B grader every team in the comp has about 20 of them.

He's borderline useless up the field at the moment and does nothing inside 50 if he's not getting laced out in space. I really liked Amiss in his draft year but more often than not he's a liability for his team due to how easily his man peels off and impacts other contests during games.

 

[Shueygod]

He's 22 and had a rough year - was pink capped in training for the whole season so assume had some kind of injury. Still kicked 32 and had a significant impact late on in a few games towards the end of the season though, which bodes well.

Kicked 81 goals in his first 47 games before this year. Whilst I'd agree he'd be looking to improve this year, I'm pretty happy putting him in the A/B category.

His age is irrelevant in the discussion, this year he was lucky to get a game. Saying he was an A/B grader and him being incomparable to anyone Carlton 2023 is delusion to the greatest extent. His year was similar to known potato Jesse Motlops 2023.

Murphy Reid is also not an A/B grader right now.

 

[Shueygod]

If Amiss is an A/B grader every team in the comp has about 20 of them.

He's borderline useless up the field at the moment and does nothing inside 50 if he's not getting laced out in space. I really liked Amiss in his draft year but more often than not he's a liability for his team due to how easily his man peels off and impacts other contests during games.

This, is one of the worst players in the AFL getting a regular game right now.

4th worst to be specific.

 

[RonnieRaven]

If Amiss is an A/B grader every team in the comp has about 20 of them.

He's borderline useless up the field at the moment and does nothing inside 50 if he's not getting laced out in space. I really liked Amiss in his draft year but more often than not he's a liability for his team due to how easily his man peels off and impacts other contests during games.

He’s only a young fella plenty of time to grow.
71 games 113 goals @ 1.6 34 assists @ .5
I’d think most clubs would be happy with his contribution in his first 4 years of football as a key forward.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

He’s only a young fella plenty of time to grow.
71 games 113 goals @ 1.6 34 assists @ .5
I’d think most clubs would be happy with his contribution in his first 4 years of football as a key forward.

Not disagreeing with that, but he is not an A/B grader yet.

 

[Purple Suit]

This, is one of the worst players in the AFL getting a regular game right now.

4th worst to be specific.

Who cares about ratings? He's got a role and he plays that role. Voss coming on means there's more goals to spread around for the big three and we target who ever has a good match-up.

I think you're just jealous that your boy Jack Williams isn't going to make it and can't get into the worst team in the comp.

 

[Shueygod]

Who cares about ratings? He's got a role and he plays that role. Voss coming on means there's more goals to spread around for the big three and we target who ever has a good match-up.

I think you're just jealous that your boy Jack Williams isn't going to make it and can't get into the worst team in the comp.

Is his role to be a traffic cone? I’m responding to a poster that claimed Amiss was a B grader.

When he played Williams was better than Amiss in the worst team in the comp, Amiss wouldn’t have gotten a game either considering he couldn’t.

Is Amiss currently a B grader (or better)?

 

[Purple Suit]

Is his role to be a traffic cone? I’m responding to a poster that claimed Amiss was a B grader.

When he played Williams was better than Amiss in the worst team in the comp, Amiss wouldn’t have gotten a game either considering he couldn’t.

Is Amiss currently a B grader (or better)?

He's not what I would call a B grader yet via output but he's a young key position player who has already kicked over 100 goals. He's tracking fine and would be in front of a lot of other players at the same time in their career who turned into A graders. I expect him to reach B grade level in a few years and has already shown

Growth isn't linear though, I wouldn't be surprise if he kicks 50 goals next year and there is a different mix of output from the other 2 key forwards.

 

[LeBronco]

Curnow was contracted for 3 more years. If you go for contracted players, especially Coleman medalists, you pay the price, it's not rocket science.

Geelong never pay overs at the trade table they always make sure they get picks back. See the Cameron trade in 2020 for a perfect example.

That's the fault of the club, not Queensland. You have to put in the work to get FA's. Sydney seem to be content with recruiting when they have to and leveraging their academy to come up with their list. If they don't want to recruit others, that seems to be their choice.

I also have no doubt that if a club nabbed old Stephen C, the AFL would've done something similar too, given old Gill M said he hoped he stayed on the record.

Was that before or after 2020 because ever since the coronavirus there has been heavy bias towards Queensland from the AFL and you are either naive or blind if you think otherwise.

Are you a GWS supporter or a Sydney supporter? 2016 was for the Swans so I'm just checking.

It's funny that you mention corrupt umpiring, despite the fact that GWS benefited off their own favored umpiring in the prelim against my mob in 2019 and shouldn't have been in the GF as a result.

Either way, I don't remember there being any egregious umpiring in 2016. That's all I've got to say about the manner. Feel free to bring up some actual evidence instead of your comments on the other thread, using Geelong supporters crying about a lack of free kicks, despite being 10-15 up at half time and still winning the FK count at the end of the game.

Since you've mentioned it, let's talk about 2024. The only free kick that I can remember that was questioned was the II free towards the end of the game. It was 100% II, because you can see the player tap it aiming for the boundary. If he left it, it wouldn't have been II, it would've just been a throw in. Either way, GWS largely collapsed after half time, that's not the fault of umpiring.

2016 preliminary final is a game we should have won but dubious umpiring got the Bulldogs over the line. It gets forgotten because of dubious umpiring in the 2016 grand final which still gets talked about to this day.

Why would the AFL allow Sydney and GWS to make multiple GF appearances, over the course of a decade, if they had something against NSW? Why prop up a team for the entirety of 2024, just to plan for them to lose? This is just silly from you.

I don't think the 2024 grand final was supposed to have 2 interstate teams. It's very clear that the VFL mob always want one VIC team in the GF, which didn't happen. Sydney arguably lost in 2024 due to match fitness, as they hadn't played a game in 3-4 weeks by the time the GF came around. That's not the AFL interfering, that's just the shitting prefinals bye, plus the bye from winning the first final, not the AFL.

All in all though, this is your conspiracy theory, and it doesn't make sense.

AFL want NSW clubs in the mix for finals and premierships because of the TV money/ratings but don't want the clubs winning premierships. I've seen both clubs cop bad umpiring in finals too many times for it to be a coincidence.

 

[Shueygod]

He's not what I would call a B grader yet via output but he's a young key position player who has already kicked over 100 goals. He's tracking fine and would be in front of a lot of other players at the same time in their career who turned into A graders. I expect him to reach B grade level in a few years and has already shown

Growth isn't linear though, I wouldn't be surprise if he kicks 50 goals next year and there is a different mix of output from the other 2 key forwards.

Right so you actually agree with me, nowhere have I commented on Amiss’ potential. I said he had a horrible year and is nowhere near a b grader at the moment.

Cheers for wasting both our time just to agree with the premise of my original post.

 

[Purple Suit]

Right so you actually agree with me, nowhere have I commented on Amiss’ potential. I said he had a horrible year and is nowhere near a b grader at the moment.

Cheers for wasting both our time just to agree with the premise of my original post.

No, I'm not agreeing that he is barely an AFL player.

I don't think he had a horrible year. 32 goals isn't horrible in a forward line consisting of 3 key forwards. He would have been the leading goal kicker at WC, Richmond, Essendon, Carlton (Draw with Curnow).

 

[StevoJenkins]

Geelong never pay overs at the trade table they always make sure they get picks back. See the Cameron trade in 2020 for a perfect example.

It's not a perfect example; there's a pretty big difference with that trade.

Difference was that Cameron was an RFA which, from memory, a trade was forced. Not the same as Curnow who had 3 years left on his deal.

Free agency, and restricted free agency, is an evolving beast that is one of the biggest jokes in the AFL, but even then, it's very different to Carlton who had a player for another 3 years.

Was that before or after 2020 because ever since the coronavirus there has been heavy bias towards Queensland from the AFL and you are either naive or blind if you think otherwise.

Sure, the AFL were grateful for Queensland opening it's doors for 2020. It gave great tourism to the state, had economic bonuses, and was all round a good trade.

You know what happened in 2021 when the AFL asked to use the Gabba? The Premiere gave them the middle finger, which lead to the grand final being held in Perth.

As a result, despite making a bid for it, the AFL ignored NSW's and QLD's bid for gather round and instead held it in Adelaide.

We later got "Opening Round" which is one of the dumbest ideas AFL house has come up with, but that was for all 4 northern teams, not just Queensland, and only exists to compete with the NRL and their choice to host their games elsewhere.

Not really bias towards Queensland with that in mind. Again, come up with something that actually has facts to back what you are saying up.

2016 preliminary final is a game we should have won but dubious umpiring got the Bulldogs over the line. It gets forgotten because of dubious umpiring in the 2016 grand final which still gets talked about to this day.

I've heard a lot more about the 2017 umpiring than I have the 2016 umpiring. But again, don't answer my question as to which team you support, and again, bring up that somebody, at some point, in some context, mentioned at some date, that the umpiring was bad.

I've actually made reference to bad umpiring in 2019, which was a throw that led to the game winning goal. Can you actually bring up any examples?

AFL want NSW clubs in the mix for finals and premierships because of the TV money/ratings but don't want the clubs winning premierships. I've seen both clubs cop bad umpiring in finals too many times for it to be a coincidence.

Then bring up some umpiring in a recent final that warrants it. Just saying "umpiring bad" proves nothing.

If it's about money and ratings, why not let a NSW team win so you can hype them up with oval laps and various other events? It doesn't make sense as once you make the grand final, at least in recent years, umpiring doesn't seem to be a factor.

Again I point to the FK count in the 2025 final, which was for Geelong for the entire game. The Swans in 2022 actually won the free kick count, that didn't make a difference for them.

 

[Shueygod]

No, I'm not agreeing that he is barely an AFL player.

I don't think he had a horrible year. 32 goals isn't horrible in a forward line consisting of 3 key forwards. He would have been the leading goal kicker at WC, Richmond, Essendon, Carlton (Draw with Curnow).

He’s a bottom 3 best 22 key forward in the league this year, I implore you to name 3 worse that played 20 games last year?

For mine if you are one of the worst in your position in the league, that makes you barely afl standard.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Get some help George, your obsession with the Blues is genuinely concerning.

Why? I've never known someone to get so defensive over fair criticism or to unduly pump up a list more than you.
Trying to argue you've had a list recently better than Freo's currently just isn't accurate.