Oppo Camp Non-Essendon Football Thread XVIII

[Phone]

a shame everyone wasted 2 years on stupid nonsense like planning reports when the Government could have just voted back then.

Not really. Rainfall in Hobart not as bad as people think. Roof not needed and you upgrade the other two grounds for cheaper.

Cost of the stadium per head is equivalent to Melbourne building a $20m stadium. Insane cost

upgrading Bellerive Oval would have just been wasted money. further extending the actual attendance capacity of the ground was probably pretty close to a non-starter anyway due due to it, you know, being surrounded by park land and roads & being in a residential area. But then they also probably would have needed to expand the supply of corporate suites at the ground too. and then from memory, there's one side of the ground that barely has toilets and there's poor commercial facilities. all that stuff would have cost a pretty penny to upgrade. oh and I'm sure due to it being in an residential area, there's limits on how often the lights can be on for events too that would have had to change with an AFL team and that would have kicked up a whole stink.

at a certain point, starting fresh with a clean build is the better move. the roof is a different subject, but being based out of Bellerive forever would have been dooming the club from day 1.

and obviously the Tassie team wasn't going to based out of Launceston, sorry to the northerners

 

[boncer34]

a shame everyone wasted 2 years on stupid nonsense like planning reports when the Government could have just voted back then.



upgrading Bellerive Oval would have just been wasted money. further extending the actual attendance capacity of the ground was probably pretty close to a non-starter anyway due due to it, you know, being surrounded by park land and roads & being in a residential area. But then they also probably would have needed to expand the supply of corporate suites at the ground too. and then from memory, there's one side of the ground that barely has toilets and there's poor commercial facilities. all that stuff would have cost a pretty penny to upgrade. oh and I'm sure due to it being in an residential area, there's limits on how often the lights can be on for events too that would have had to change with an AFL team and that would have kicked up a whole stink.

at a certain point, starting fresh with a clean build is the better move. the roof is a different subject, but being based out of Bellerive forever would have been dooming the club from day 1.

and obviously the Tassie team wasn't going to based out of Launceston, sorry to the northerners

90 houses would've been bulldozed at Bellerive to make it equivalent to Mac Point.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

Whats rainfall got to do with it?

So what’s the point of a roof? Make it far cheaper. What about my other point about cost equivalent?

 

[boncer34]

So what’s the point of a roof? Make it far cheaper. What about my other point about cost equivalent?

I never said anything about a roof.

I said Hobart needs a new stadium.

As for your cost equivalent. I don't understand your point, I presume the $20m is a typo?

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

I never said anything about a roof.

I said Hobart needs a new stadium.

As for your cost equivalent. I don't understand your point, I presume the $20m is a typo?

Cost per head of population. Vic population 10x bigger than Tas.

Based on other major Tas projects cost overruns (see article below) some estimate $2b stadium cost

AFL Contract Transfers All Stadium Risk to Tasmanians

Economic Puff Piece – Stadium Costs are Clearly Understated In response to an opinion piece in the Mercury from the Coordinator General Our Place Hobart has submitted two articles to Tasmanian Times for publication – the first published earlier this week was “Economic Puff Piece – Stadium Costs...

tasmaniantimes.com

 

[boncer34]

Cost per head of population. Vic population 10x bigger than Tas.

Based on other major Tas projects cost overruns (see article below) some estimate $2b stadium cost

AFL Contract Transfers All Stadium Risk to Tasmanians

Economic Puff Piece – Stadium Costs are Clearly Understated In response to an opinion piece in the Mercury from the Coordinator General Our Place Hobart has submitted two articles to Tasmanian Times for publication – the first published earlier this week was “Economic Puff Piece – Stadium Costs...

tasmaniantimes.com

Well yes. Everything in Tasmania generally costs more per head. Unfortunately I have first hand experience of this.

Also I dont want to disparage your source there but the Tasmanian Times is about as unbiased as Pulse i.e. its not, Geoffrey Swann is a Greens party advocate.

You seem to be under the illusion that I think Mac Point is the best option. I dont. I think Mac Point 2.0 for instance, pushed by a local Hobart greens councilor, was worth a look amongst others.

It is entirely a failure of the Rockcliff government that saw Mac Point the final option.

But given that the Tasmanian Government tied Mac Point to the AFL team, I will be celebrating the path to Tas19 is now clear.

And yes I'll also take some pleasure in the upset of people like Cassy O'Connor and Anna Reynolds throwing tantrums. I won't deny I'm indulging a little schadenfreude.

 

[faible]

Not really. Rainfall in Hobart not as bad as people think. Roof not needed and you upgrade the other two grounds for cheaper.

Cost of the stadium per head is equivalent to Melbourne building a $20m stadium. Insane cost

Stadium location wouldn’t work elsewhere, the Adelaide oval / Perth stadium model where you stay in the city then walk everywhere is the long-term go

 

[jmoo wan]

Whats rainfall got to do with it?

got to do with, got to do with?
what’s rainfall but a second hand precipitation event?

 

[EnolaGay]

Cost per head of population. Vic population 10x bigger than Tas.

Based on other major Tas projects cost overruns (see article below) some estimate $2b stadium cost

AFL Contract Transfers All Stadium Risk to Tasmanians

Economic Puff Piece – Stadium Costs are Clearly Understated In response to an opinion piece in the Mercury from the Coordinator General Our Place Hobart has submitted two articles to Tasmanian Times for publication – the first published earlier this week was “Economic Puff Piece – Stadium Costs...

tasmaniantimes.com

Then isn't $2 billion divided by 10, $200 million not $20 million?

 

[Old Campaigner]

Well yes. Everything in Tasmania generally costs more per head. Unfortunately I have first hand experience of this.

Also I dont want to disparage your source there but the Tasmanian Times is about as unbiased as Pulse i.e. its not, Geoffrey Swann is a Greens party advocate.

You seem to be under the illusion that I think Mac Point is the best option. I dont. I think Mac Point 2.0 for instance, pushed by a local Hobart greens councilor, was worth a look amongst others.

It is entirely a failure of the Rockcliff government that saw Mac Point the final option.

But given that the Tasmanian Government tied Mac Point to the AFL team, I will be celebrating the path to Tas19 is now clear.

And yes I'll also take some pleasure in the upset of people like Cassy O'Connor and Anna Reynolds throwing tantrums. I won't deny I'm indulging a little schadenfreude.

sheesh imagine how much it would cost per head if the tasmaniacs had just one per person

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

Then isn't $2 billion divided by 10, $200 million not $20 million?

Tas - $2b for let’s say 650,000 people then cost = $3077 per person.

Vic = $3077 x 6.5m people = $20b

For a state already massively in debt then there’s going to be some al mighty big tax increases, lots of job cuts, higher costs.

 

[boncer34]

Tas - $2b for let’s say 650,000 people then cost = $3077 per person.

Vic = $3077 x 6.5m people = $20b

For a state already massively in debt then there’s going to be some al mighty big tax increases, lots of job cuts, higher costs.

I mean, you know thats a nonsensical way of looking at things right?

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

I mean, you know thats a nonsensical way of looking at things right?

No it’s not. For a stadium with a capacity of 23,000 and tiny population..it’s crazy expensive.

 

[boncer34]

No it’s not

Yes it is.

Everything will be blow out scale if you divide it by the smaller population and multiple it by the bigger one.

The new Bridgewater Bridge cost $786m for a 1.2km bridge. Oh wow in Victoria that'd be $7.86b. Way to expensive.

 

[doug85]

Tas - $2b for let’s say 650,000 people then cost = $3077 per person.

Vic = $3077 x 6.5m people = $20b

For a state already massively in debt then there’s going to be some al mighty big tax increases, lots of job cuts, higher costs.

I think cost per head is a very reductive way to analyse the issue.

Tassie is smaller, so to have a large infrastructure project like this will ripple through the economy by creating jobs which will increase spending in the local community (and more tax will be collected). And not just the stadium, but the football club itself will have the same impacts. It will likely see an increase in tourism too.

 

[Bipolar Bear]

a shame everyone wasted 2 years on stupid nonsense like planning reports when the Government could have just voted back then.

Pretty funny, the greens keep pointing to the blow outs, that are directly attributable to the opposers of the stadium delaying it. Should be half built already, and half the price.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

Let’s not forget the govt commissioned independent 170 page report by Dr Nick Gruen who predicted the cost blowout that was announced months later. His report was scathing of the way real costs were being hidden.

You think of all the current f*** ups of this AFL administration and a whole state jumps to its hare brained bluff.

Review finds Hobart stadium costs to 'exceed $1 billion'

A leading independent economist tasked with reviewing Tasmania's proposal to build an AFL stadium on Hobart's waterfront finds the project is "already displaying the hallmarks of mismanagement" and is likely to exceed $1 billion.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Phone]

Yes it is.

Everything will be blow out scale if you divide it by the smaller population and multiple it by the bigger one.

The new Bridgewater Bridge cost $786m for a 1.2km bridge. Oh wow in Victoria that'd be $7.86b. Way to expensive.

that's very expensive when you consider that it's literally free to just swim the 1.2km

 

[boncer34]

Let’s not forget the govt commissioned independent 170 page report by Dr Nick Gruen who predicted the cost blowout that was announced months later. His report was scathing of the way real costs were being hidden.

You think of all the current f*** ups of this AFL administration and a whole state jumps to its hare brained bluff.

Review finds Hobart stadium costs to 'exceed $1 billion'

A leading independent economist tasked with reviewing Tasmania's proposal to build an AFL stadium on Hobart's waterfront finds the project is "already displaying the hallmarks of mismanagement" and is likely to exceed $1 billion.

www.abc.net.au

The same Dr Gruen who failed to disclose his meetings with anti-stadium members and only "remembered" the "administrative oversight" when the ABC informed him they were publishing a story about it?

Wonder why his report was so anti-stadium.

Go after the Liberal government, they've agreed to cap investment from them at $850. Except they originally said it wouldn't cost a red cent more than $350m.

 

[boncer34]

that's very expensive when you consider that it's literally free to just swim the 1.2km

Suburban rail loop cost Victoria $34.5b for the first stage.

Tassie could've done the same project for $3.45b.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

The same Dr Gruen who failed to disclose his meetings with anti-stadium members and only "remembered" the "administrative oversight" when the ABC informed him they were publishing a story about it?

Wonder why his report was so anti-stadium.

Go after the Liberal government, they've agreed to cap investment from them at $850. Except they originally said it wouldn't cost a red cent more than $350m.

He also failed to disclose meeting with supporters of the proposal. God forbid he met with both sides

Tasmanian Planning Commission had similar findings and said cost to the state would outweigh the benefits. Also said and taxes would need to increase $50 million per year over 30 years. Ouch!

 

[boncer34]

He also failed to disclose meeting with supporters of the proposal. God forbid he met with both sides

Tasmanian Planning Commission had similar findings and said cost to the state would outweigh the benefits. Also said and taxes would need to increase $50 million per year over 30 years. Ouch!

Did he? I missed those news articles. Do you have a link?

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

Did he? I missed those news articles. Do you have a link?

There’s plenty if you look. Rockliff and the Libs led the attacks on Gruen. Mountain out of a molehill. Couldn’t discredit the figures ..in fact had no counter reply on them.

Anti-stadium activist meetings with report author disclosed weeks later

The author of an independent economic review of Hobart's proposed Macquarie Point stadium was encouraged by a senior Jacqui Lambie Network staffer to meet anti-stadium activists before he was formally appointed to conduct the review.

www.abc.net.au

 

[boncer34]

There’s plenty if you look. Rockliff and the Libs led the attacks on Gruen. Mountain out of a molehill. Couldn’t discredit the figures ..in fact had no counter reply on them.

Anti-stadium activist meetings with report author disclosed weeks later

The author of an independent economic review of Hobart's proposed Macquarie Point stadium was encouraged by a senior Jacqui Lambie Network staffer to meet anti-stadium activists before he was formally appointed to conduct the review.

www.abc.net.au

Oh sorry I meant the meetings he didnt disclose before he was appointed, when he was asked about conflicts of interest.

Which pro-stadium meetings didn't he disclose then?

 

[ghostdog]

Turncoat. Even if my own street got an AFL license I wouldn't change teams. I'd give up following before that.

A mate of mine came from a diehard Collingwood family until they moved to Brisbane and he realised how many of his footy mates were finding themselves with ties to the Lions. He found himself barracking for his mates and is now Lions through and through, and so is his own yiung family. Belonging is the thing.