Tasmania Team entering 2028. VFL team 2026. Gov has votes to pass Upper House. Official vote 4/12. Job almost done lads - congrats!

[Professor Knowall]

The issue with this line of thinking is that it will take an endless well of money to fix the "perceived" tangible element of healthcare, because unless you throw an unrealistic, undemocratic amount of money that the mainland would never pay, Tasmania's health outcomes will never be on level pegging with the mainland.

So you build a few more hospitals that fixes up the fact that people might get a bit better care in the short-term. But then as Tasmania ages faster than the mainland and young people that could have been the ones to be a tax and caring base for the elderly move to the mainland - then what? You still have the need for ever more hospital beds and and a structure of the economy that can't support it other than an ever increasing unsustainable amount of money being thrown at the problem.

In order to "fix" the health crisis the only solution people would have, is to what, spend tens of thousands of dollars convincing mainland nurses to relocate to (or not move away from) to Tasmania, and once you're doing that, you may as well achieve that indirectly by spending the money on the team and stadium which will convince people to move/stay to Tasmania because they like the fact they have a football team to support and concerts to go to.

The Tasmanian expat community is a lot bigger in Melbourne than the rest of the country (for obvious reasons) both me and my friends/family know a lot of Tasmanians who have had to leave the mainland.

Over 5,000 20-34 year olds leave Tasmania every year, of the 15,000 that do leave, and while similar numbers to return to the state, it's much older, such as returning older Tasmanians and retirees who are much more likely to interact with their health system - but you don't have the university-educated 20-34 year old workforce individuals that are the ones that bear the brunt of driving our economy forward so we do have a healthcare and pension system for older people, who are found in Tasmania.

I think the cultural benefits of having a football team in Tasmania - keeping in mind that as many as 4% of the country has purchased an AFL membership and a majority of Tasmanians watch some AFL on TV every year - cannot be overstated as an influence in changing the structure of society and economy in Tasmania. This is especially so as Tasmania is still very much an Anglo-Celtic society, as the mainland's demographics changes and the AFL understands that it needs to break into these communities that have no generational association with the game, this is not the case with Tasmania, the team will activate a lot of latent AFL support among non-immigrant communities that are generationally tied to the sport in the opposite way that e.g. the Dogs have struggled with with the Vietnamese community in Footscray.

That's superbly argued. To put it bluntly - if o e wants a good health car system, you must also have a strong economy to support it (economics 101). To neglect the economy and business and put all your expenditure both capital and on-going (which are two very different beasts which too few appreciate) is to go into an ever increasing financial death-spiral.

Tasmania is in desperate need of the economic boost the new stadium will bring. Otherwise it risks sliding into a glorified retirement village - it's already attracting many retirees from Melbourne and Sydney, even while,its youth head to the mainland. This is a recipe for further decline and would ultimately make the funding adequate healthcare impossible.

So to claim that capital expenditure on assets that increases jobs and opportunities for working age people somehow is at the expense of proper healthcare is not only wrong, but diametrically opposite of the truth.

 

[The_Wookie]

Hopefully you and your loved ones haven't had to or never have to deal with a lack of hospital beds, because that tangible will quickly overtake those intangibles you're talking about as a priority.

Sometimes I do think it's the younger people that have never had a worry such as that in life to deal with that things like spending flagrantly on expensive stadiums which is a nice to have over life-saving things such as hospitals - who cares about hospitals if you've never had an emergency or disease to deal with. If your biggest worry in life is your sport team playing out of a 'less than ideal' stadium, and you go out to protest for a better one, you probably haven't got too much to worry about in life.

Its not a zero sum equation.

 

[Jack Mundy]

This kinda is the point, maybe there should be more attention, protests, money etc spent on healthcare in tasmania over stadiums. How much attention has this bloody stadium had over the past years.

People should be protesting spending on healthcare and schools?! Ok Paul Murray.

 

[Jack Mundy]

That's superbly argued. To put it bluntly - if o e wants a good health car system, you must also have a strong economy to support it (economics 101). To neglect the economy and business and put all your expenditure both capital and on-going (which are two very different beasts which too few appreciate) is to go into an ever increasing financial death-spiral.

Tasmania is in desperate need of the economic boost the new stadium will bring. Otherwise it risks sliding into a glorified retirement village - it's already attracting many retirees from Melbourne and Sydney, even while,its youth head to the mainland. This is a recipe for further decline and would ultimately make the funding adequate healthcare impossible.

So to claim that capital expenditure on assets that increases jobs and opportunities for working age people somehow is at the expense of proper healthcare is not only wrong, but diametrically opposite of the truth.

Except the stadium is slated to lose money. It'll reduce credit rating for state and increase interest when they need money for real needs like health and schools. The world's biggest 23k indoor arena was never needed.

 

[T2B_]

Except the stadium is slated to lose money. It'll reduce credit rating for state and increase interest when they need money for real needs like health and schools. The world's biggest 23k indoor arena was never needed.

What a load of absolute shit.

You sound just like every one of our loud obnoxious minority of NIMBYs.

 

[Professor Knowall]

Except the stadium is slated to lose money. It'll reduce credit rating for state and increase interest when they need money for real needs like health and schools. The world's biggest 23k indoor arena was never needed.

Absolute nonsense - Good lord, the amount of money it would lose will be a very small drop in the ocean compared to the overall on-going financial expenditure of the state. It wouldn't come close to 1% and have no effect whatsoever on the credit rating and interest rates.

 

[Hodgey 15]

It's a 'Yes'. Hobart's AFL stadium gets final parliamentary approval

A $1.13 billion stadium on the edge of the Hobart CBD has been approved by Tasmania's upper house, satisfying a key condition for the state's AFL licence.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Jack Mundy]

What a load of absolute shit.

You sound just like every one of our loud obnoxious minority of NIMBYs.

Lol, term NIMBY is form of manufactured consent. Anybody standing in way of rich and powerful getting what their want is labelled that. Smart people would be questioning why smallest state needs to build world's biggest 23k indoor arena?!

 

[Financialpanther]

Lol, term NIMBY is form of manufactured consent. Anybody standing in way of rich and powerful getting what their want is labelled that. Smart people would be questioning why smallest state needs to build world's biggest 23k indoor arena?!

Honest question, are you from Tassie or live in Tassie.

Reason I ask, is it's kind of the reverse in meaning down here. Usually it is the rich boomers that are labelled NIMBYs, who don't want social housing or anything that will impact their property prices.

 

[Professor Knowall]

Smart people would be questioning why smallest state needs to build world's biggest 23k indoor arena?!

Smart people in Tasmania have been intensely questioning, examining, grilling and interrogating why Tasmania needs the new stadium for about the last 3 years. And the decisive bi-partisan answer is ... YES, Yes we do!

You seem to know next to nothing about Tasmania - the minority opposition to the stadium has been driven by old, rich NIMBY's, particularly those who live around Battery Point (the Toorak of Hobart) - many of which are cashed up retirees from Sydney and Melbourne, with little knowledge of, an no respect for, Tasmania's heritage and culture - and especially its incredibly rich heritage in Australia's own game, producing an almost unbelievable number of some of the greatest players ever to play Australia's national game - enough to rival any state.

Tasmania will now finally, fully take its place in Australia's most popular sport.

It's your traditional footy loving Tasmanian working class, looked down upon and derided by those old rich mainland blow-ins (Andrew Wilkie is your typical example of this type), that have been rock solid in support of this stadium. The CFMEU (the legacy of the real Jack Mundy) has been amongst its most ardent advocates - they released yet another statement of support on Wednesday in the for the Parliamentary debate.

The real Jack Mundy would disown this elitist spruiking version here that's appropriated his name - but not his ethos.

Anyway, why do you care so much when you're apparently from Sydney? I note that, based on your posting history, you are no friend or have any interest in Australian Football - I note that one of your posts even complained the new stadium won't not big enough to hold an NRL state of origin game!

But I did get a good laugh out of this description- "... state needs to build world's biggest 23k indoor arena? ...". Perhaps you would prefer it if Tasmania built the world's smallest 23k indoor arena!

 

[The_Wookie]

 

[hampton]

What will Tasmania do with Ninja stadium after macquarie park is built? Do Tasmania really need three 20k+ afl/cricket stadiums for 500k people?

If the constructions costs are overrun is it going to be the Tas government that forks out, and would that be on top of the $4.5m late fees that AFL have stipulated into the contrsct?

If the stadium is costing 1.5B total wouldn't it make sense to play all games there not just 7 a year? People that are pro stadium are saying it's only an hour to get to the stadium from all parts of Tasmania, so then why not play all games there?

If they are really going to split games betweeen Launceston and Hobart indefintely, are Tasmania going to perpetually keep 2 AFL stadiums maintained and updated and cleaned and staffed etc?

The best argument is intangibles such as it will make Tasmania feel good, basically just parroting the AFL house party line. The best commercial argument is that it will drive a few extra concerts a year in Tasmania. Not even mentioning that it’s being plonked opposite the Hobart historic precinct, akin to dropping a large stadium in The Rocks in Sydney and overwhelming everything there.

Like someone else said, is the worlds largest indoor arena the biggest priority for a small and in debt state with other real economic and health issues to grapple with. Doing some napkin math, if theres only 7 afl games per year there, over the standard course of a stadium lifetime of 30 years it will cost 8m per AFL game played there (210 games). What's the ROI on that, would have to sell a lot of beers and pies.

The more you look at this thing the more it unravels in terms of passing the pub test. Quite crazy when there are already serviceable stadiums that are used frequently for afl games.

What a weird situation in the afl not even wanting an afl team in Tasmania (for many many good reasons) but still deciding to try it out by putting some unreasonable demands on the state to make it a bit more enticing, which they stupidly took the bait on.

 

[Jazny]

Anybody standing in way of rich and powerful getting what their want is labelled that. Smart people would be questioning why smallest state needs to build world's biggest 23k indoor arena?!

The rich and powerful boomers top, the grass roots supporters below. The rich and powerful lost.

 

[kalex6251]

What will Tasmania do with Ninja stadium after macquarie park is built? Do Tasmania really need three 20k+ afl/cricket stadiums for 500k people?

If the constructions costs are overrun is it going to be the Tas government that forks out, and would that be on top of the $4.5m late fees that AFL have stipulated into the contrsct?

If the stadium is costing 1.5B total wouldn't it make sense to play all games there not just 7 a year? People that are pro stadium are saying it's only an hour to get to the stadium from all parts of Tasmania, so then why not play all games there?

If they are really going to split games betweeen Launceston and Hobart indefintely, are Tasmania going to perpetually keep 2 AFL stadiums maintained and updated and cleaned and staffed etc?

The best argument is intangibles such as it will make Tasmania feel good, basically just parroting the AFL house party line. The best commercial argument is that it will drive a few extra concerts a year in Tasmania.

The more you look at this thing the more it unravels in terms of passing the pub test

you should be more worried about what the PNG govt will do next ...... how about focusing your LU trolling efforts there

 

[Professor Knowall]

What will Tasmania do with Ninja stadium after macquarie park is built? Do Tasmania really need three 20k+ afl/cricket stadiums for 500k people?

If the constructions costs are overrun is it going to be the Tas government that forks out, and would that be on top of the $4.5m late fees that AFL have stipulated into the contrsct?

If the stadium is costing 1.5B total wouldn't it make sense to play all games there not just 7 a year? People that are pro stadium are saying it's only an hour to get to the stadium from all parts of Tasmania, so then why not play all games there?

If they are really going to split games betweeen Launceston and Hobart indefintely, are Tasmania going to perpetually keep 2 AFL stadiums maintained and updated and cleaned and staffed etc?

The best argument is intangibles such as it will make Tasmania feel good, basically just parroting the AFL house party line. The best commercial argument is that it will drive a few extra concerts a year in Tasmania.

The more you look at this thing the more it unravels in terms of passing the pub test

You seem not to realise that the stipulation in the agreement to share games between Hobart and Launceston was a condition insisted by the Tasmanian Gov't (the Premier has stated this multiple times), not the AFL, who probably would prefer more games in the new stadium. What happens now with Bellerive Oval is of no concern to the AFL, but I presume it'll still be used for Shield Games and also remain the home ground of the Clarence FC, their home for the last 140 years.

I have no doubt that the stadium will hold many events, not a few. It's a brilliant - and desperately needed - outcome. It will not only revitalise the Hobart waterfront, lifting the whole city to a new level and really boost tourism for the whole state. Just when I thought I've done everything in Tassie (I've done lots there over the years) and it has nothing more to offer, this'll most definitely get me back down there.

It's no wonder it overwhelmingly passed with bi-partisan support in both Houses of Parliament.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

What will Tasmania do with Ninja stadium after macquarie park is built

The fully professional Tasmanian cricket teams will still need a year-round venue to play and train in, just like how every other state has one (WACA, Karen Rolton Oval, Alan Border field etc.)

Yes I agree that the capacity of it is irrelevant now but obviously the capacity was put there for a reason in the past (ie, for the previous AFL and higher-attended state cricket that was played in the past). It served its purpose in the past, and obviously no money will be spent increasing or maintaining the capacity in the future.

God, you're like a broken record.

You're not even good at trolling when the answers to your "jaqing off" "just asking questions" have such obvious answers that it even goes uncommented. Legitimately, try harder.

 

[hampton]

So basically we agree that 3 20k stadiums is probably 2 too many in Tasmania, after Tas government already spent 100m+ on them. And it was also Tas that requested games be played at Launceston, thereby halving the ROI on the expensive new stadium. But Tas are also working to the high benchmarks that the AFL stipulated for them, including some pretty unfair clauses that if the stadium is not built on time they'll essentially fine the Tas government.

Just seems like overall very poor planning and at the cost of the taxpayer. Pouring money into venues that will no longer be needed (Ninja). Putting all keys construction and timelines risks onto the Tas government and the Tas taxpayer, not onto the AFL or federal government. Putting requirements such as a roof that's a questionable need.

In the long run Tasmania will effectively need to maintain and upgrade at minimum two stadiums not just 1 and just let Ninja die.

It's not a broken record its just that these very real impacts and questions are not being addressed, they're just going to the 'meh' category of "it's now Tasmania's problem". Noone is saying the Mac point won't have benefits, just that it really looks like Tasmanians have been taken for a ride, which is to be fair a lot on them for putting themselves in that position.

 

[hampton]

The idea that this stadium will drive tourism is not a very important or impactful one. Tasmania already has riches in terms of it's heritage, nature and attractions like MONA. Is a stadium for AFL games going to significantly impact that? 7 times a year they'll get a few thousand extra travellers from Melbourne. They already get some of that impact with the existing AFL games in Tasmania, without spending a dollar more.

People that aren't interested in AFL aren't going to go to Tasmania to see a stadium.

 

[The_Wookie]

What will Tasmania do with Ninja stadium after macquarie park is built? Do Tasmania really need three 20k+ afl/cricket stadiums for 500k people?

It'll be downgraded like football park in adelaide was

If the constructions costs are overrun is it going to be the Tas government that forks out, and would that be on top of the $4.5m late fees that AFL have stipulated into the contrsct?

The AFL has evidently waived the late fees.

If the stadium is costing 1.5B total

people are pulling figures from their ass.

wouldn't it make sense to play all games there not just 7 a year? People that are pro stadium are saying it's only an hour to get to the stadium from all parts of Tasmania, so then why not play all games there?

theres considerable investment being made in Launceston as well. This team wouldnt have got off the ground without a commitment to play in the North. Its one of the weirder quirls of Tasmania. The North/South divide is a real thing.

The best argument is intangibles such as it will make Tasmania feel good, basically just parroting the AFL house party line. The best commercial argument is that it will drive a few extra concerts a year in Tasmania.

Actually the best argument is that it will transform Hobart the same way Adelaide Oval did Adelaide. Leading to increase tourism and increased investment, as well as being a general uplift in state morale and pride.

Not even mentioning that it’s being plonked opposite the Hobart historic precinct, akin to dropping a large stadium in The Rocks in Sydney and overwhelming everything there.

Well the site is currently occupied by a giant rusty old shed and wasteland, so this can only improve it., but you cant halt progress forever either.

Like someone else said, is the worlds largest indoor arena the biggest priority for a small and in debt state with other real economic and health issues to grapple with.

It wont be the worlds largest indoor arena. Marvel is twice the size, and while it may not do so out of next years budget, it will largely pay for itself directly and indirectly over its 40 year lifespan. People do seem to forget this part.

Doing some napkin math, if theres only 7 afl games per year there, over the standard course of a stadium lifetime of 30 years it will cost 8m per AFL game played there (210 games). What's the ROI on that, would have to sell a lot of beers and pies.

For the love of God, it wont just be an AFL stadium. Its almost like it will also be used by AFLW/VFL/BBL/WBBL/ODI/concerts/conferences/church meetings and christ knows what else.

The more you look at this thing the more it unravels in terms of passing the pub test. Quite crazy when there are already serviceable stadiums that are used frequently for afl games.

The more I look at your post, the more holes I can poke in it. crazy. And the stadiums are serviceable now, they are not suited for modern, professional sporting teams.

What a weird situation in the afl not even wanting an afl team in Tasmania (for many many good reasons) but still deciding to try it out by putting some unreasonable demands on the state to make it a bit more enticing, which they stupidly took the bait on.

It was on the Tasmanian Government to convince the AFL to give them a team, the AFL laid out requirements after a Tasmanian task force report, which recommended, amongst other things, a roofed stadium. Tasmanian didnt take the bait, they offered it.

This has all been discussed ad nauseum over the last couple of months. Do us all a favour and read through the thread next time.

 

[Jack Mundy]

The rich and powerful boomers top, the grass roots supporters below. The rich and powerful lost.

AFL won. Taxpayers are building them a stadium.

 

[Jack Mundy]

The idea that this stadium will drive tourism is not a very important or impactful one. Tasmania already has riches in terms of it's heritage, nature and attractions like MONA. Is a stadium for AFL games going to significantly impact that? 7 times a year they'll get a few thousand extra travellers from Melbourne. They already get some of that impact with the existing AFL games in Tasmania, without spending a dollar more.

People that aren't interested in AFL aren't going to go to Tasmania to see a stadium.

No major act will play the Hobart stadium. Tasmania is too small. State government will need to pay like with foo fighters.

 

[The_Wookie]

No major act will play the Hobart stadium. Tasmania is too small. State government will need to pay like with foo fighters.

Foofighters are a major act. Literally playing UTAS with a smalller capacity next year. And youll find that paying for major events is done by all state governments these days. Tassie very late to this, but they announced a 5m major events fund in April.

 

[The_Wookie]

AFL won. Taxpayers are building them a stadium.

Taxpayers are building the state a stadium, owned and operated by Stadiums Tasmania. And not just the AFL.

 

[hampton]

It'll be downgraded like football park in adelaide was

Taxpayers will pay to upgrade it, taxpayers will pay to downgrade it shortly after.

The AFL has evidently waived the late fees.

Very generous of them, but I bet the AFL won't foot the bill when the constructions costs inevitably go up.

people are pulling figures from their ass.

Show me a stadium build that has gone to budget, especially an expensive stadium build. It's a fair assumption to make when it happens more often than not.

theres considerable investment being made in Launceston as well. This team wouldnt have got off the ground without a commitment to play in the North. Its one of the weirder quirls of Tasmania. The North/South divide is a real thing.

Agreed, stupid quirk of the Tasmanian commiment and makes no sense.

Actually the best argument is that it will transform Hobart the same way Adelaide Oval did Adelaide. Leading to increase tourism and increased investment, as well as being a general uplift in state morale and pride.

Adelaide is still a significant capital centre (even though dwindling in importance), where events tend to go regardless. Hobart will always be a tough sell. 1.5m vs 250k population. I know the argument is there that it will transform Hobart into a tourist mecca with all these new events that they otherwise wouldn't have, I bet that Tasmania will stay have to pay through the nose to get these events. Tasmania already relies heavily on tourism and has attactions that will entice far more people than AFL games and concerts.

Well the site is currently occupied by a giant rusty old shed and wasteland, so this can only improve it., but you cant halt progress forever either.

How will it improve it when it will completely overshadow it? Even some rusty sheds is better at least theyre out of the way, a massive imposing stadium on top of a quant historic town is questionable how much it will improve the area.

It wont be the worlds largest indoor arena. Marvel is twice the size, and while it may not do so out of next years budget, it will largely pay for itself directly and indirectly over its 40 year lifespan. People do seem to forget this part.

Mac Point will have a fixed closed roof by design, it's an indoor space. Marvel is an outdoor stadium with a roof that just happens to be closed all the time. Apple and oranges comparing it with Marvel.

For the love of God, it wont just be an AFL stadium. Its almost like it will also be used by AFLW/VFL/BBL/WBBL/ODI/concerts/conferences/church meetings and christ knows what else.

AFL is the major reason why this stadium is getting built and where 90% of the revenue of this stadium will come from. I recently posted some stats about other stadiums like Marvel and MCG, where 85%+ of their attendances are from AFL. Mac Point will be even more greatly in favour of AFL. AFLW, VFL etc are effectively meaningless additions in comparison. Concerts yes will get a few, after Tas pays for them. Conferences is another meaningless addition that turns little revenue. They're not spending a billion dollars to house some conferences and church meetings.

Hopefully they can increase revenue by snagging a Matildas games, an NRL game.. they won't be able to get any big Wallabies games or state of origin or even Socceroos due to the limited capacity.

It was on the Tasmanian Government to convince the AFL to give them a team, the AFL laid out requirements after a Tasmanian task force report, which recommended, amongst other things, a roofed stadium. Tasmanian didnt take the bait, they offered it.

This has all been discussed ad nauseum over the last couple of months. Do us all a favour and read through the thread next time.

Yes I put a lot of blame on the stupid Tasmania government, and also the AFL for strongarming them into it. At the end of the day, it's a win for AFL and a win for AFL supporters in Tasmania which I know is the only thing we really care about anyway.

 

[Truetiger]

Taxpayers will pay to upgrade it, taxpayers will pay to downgrade it shortly after.


Very generous of them, but I bet the AFL won't foot the bill when the constructions costs inevitably go up.

Show me a stadium build that has gone to budget, especially an expensive stadium build. It's a fair assumption to make when it happens more often than not.

Agreed, stupid quirk of the Tasmanian commiment and makes no sense.

Adelaide is still a significant capital centre (even though dwindling in importance), where events tend to go regardless. Hobart will always be a tough sell. 1.5m vs 250k population. I know the argument is there that it will transform Hobart into a tourist mecca with all these new events that they otherwise wouldn't have, I bet that Tasmania will stay have to pay through the nose to get these events. Tasmania already relies heavily on tourism and has attactions that will entice far more people than AFL games and concerts.

How will it improve it when it will completely overshadow it? Even some rusty sheds is better at least theyre out of the way, a massive imposing stadium on top of a quant historic town is questionable how much it will improve the area.

Mac Point will have a fixed closed roof by design, it's an indoor space. Marvel is an outdoor stadium with a roof that just happens to be closed all the time. Apple and oranges comparing it with Marvel.

AFL is the major reason why this stadium is getting built and where 90% of the revenue of this stadium will come from. I recently posted some stats about other stadiums like Marvel and MCG, where 85%+ of their attendances are from AFL. Mac Point will be even more greatly in favour of AFL. AFLW, VFL etc are effectively meaningless additions in comparison. Concerts yes will get a few, after Tas pays for them. Conferences is another meaningless addition that turns little revenue.


Yes I put a lot of blame on the stupid Tasmania government, and also the AFL for strongarming them into it. At the end of the day, it's a win for AFL and a win for AFL supporters in Tasmania which I know is the only thing we really care about anyway.

Funny a Sydney fan complaining considering all the assistance the AFL gave Sydney over the years. Hopefully Tasmania get that sort of deal as well. Tassie deserves this regardless of the costs etc etc