Religion Bondi shooting - 16 confirmed dead at Jewish event

[ElectricG]

When Pauline pulled Burqa 1.0 stunt George Brandis got up in parliament and gave an impassioned speech denouncing her. As part of it he said that in his meetings with ASIO and the AFP the most crucial element to combatting Islamic extremism was to keep the Muslim community onside and valued as part of Australia so they would provide intelligence about extremists within their midst.

Hanson’s rhetoric actually increases the chances of an attack.

Another example of how Islam is the only topic which can pervert everyone’s sense of right and wrong. What are you even saying? It should mean something to you that being nice to one particular group of people is critically important to prevent them from killing us. Why doesn’t this apply to Nazis and sovcits? We are willing to (rightfully) foster a paternalistic condemnation of their views.

This thread man, it’s all here. The worst and most desperate denials:

• it has nothing to do with immigration
• people who don’t like islam have lots in common with the shooter
• it’s Netanyahu’s fault

Never the fault of those committing the atrocity. Always someone else’s. Normally the victims.

 

[Gethelred]

no you were pretending not to understand things

No, I was legitimately asking you what you meant, as the meaning was unclear.

I also don't understand why you've decided that sneering is an appropriate way to converse with someone you've not interacted with before, but I shan't lose sleep over it.

 

[Gethelred]

Stop putting words in my mouth its dishonest. What I actually think is we should have a values and skills based migration program.

Balls in, do you know for a fact we don't?

 

[Balls In]

We have that.

That's not what you're arguing for.

You oppose radical ideology. That has little to do with immigration.


Why do you keep trying to make this about immigration?

Why wont you acknowledge the part immigration has played in such events?

 

[Bloods86]

Another example of how Islam is the only topic which can pervert everyone’s sense of right and wrong. What are you even saying? It should mean something to you that being nice to one particular group of people is critically important to prevent them from killing us. Why doesn’t this apply to Nazis and sovcits? We are willing to (rightfully) foster a paternalistic condemnation of their views.

This thread man, it’s all here. The worst and most desperate denials:

• it has nothing to do with immigration
• people who don’t like islam have lots in common with the shooter
• it’s Netanyahu’s fault

Never the fault of those committing the atrocity. Always someone else’s. Normally the victims.

What are you blathering about?

Of course it's the perpetrators fault.

We're not being nice to Muslims to prevent them from killing us, we just disagree with people saying dumb shit and making blanket assumptions about whole groups of people.

If you antagonise and persecute people, they are less likely to want to engage with you. But sure, keep pretending not to understand.

 

[Gethelred]

I’m just reflecting on Albo’s reference to right wing extremism and wondering whether, within the Muslim community, the gunmen and those of their ilk are considered to be right wing.

Regards

S. Pete

It's an interesting question.

Do we have any muslims who'd feel welcome to share their opinion here?

 

[10571z]

I mean if Greek terrorism was as common as Islamic terrorism I dare say there would be a different reaction…

 

[squawk]

It hasn’t been revealed why Ahmed Al Ahmed didn’t shoot the killer. He may have been unfamiliar with the weapon (may have not known how to operate the bolt), it may have been empty, he may have been paralysed in shock, he may have thought with the suspect disarmed they were no longer a threat.

A relative reported that he waited for the gun to empty and then made his charge at the perpetrator.

 

[ElectricG]

What are you blathering about?

Of course it's the perpetrators fault.

We're not being nice to Muslims to prevent them from killing us, we just disagree with people saying dumb shit and making blanket assumptions about whole groups of people.

If you antagonise and persecute people, they are less likely to want to engage with you. But sure, keep pretending not to understand.

He said that people (like Pauline) mocking the religion increase the chances of an attack. He is trying to assign SOME culpability to people who dislike Islam.

I understand perfectly well what he’s saying. He wouldn’t say it about other groups.

 

[Balls In]

Balls in, do you know for a fact we don't?

Perhaps poorly phased, we do have some sort of skills and values based immigration system but there's a growing bank of evidence both economically and from a social cohesion perspective that demonstrates the current system is failing Australia.

 

[Sphynx]

Balls in, do you know for a fact we don't?

I think based on the pure volume, if it were a gif

 

[Saint]

Read Siegals recommendations, I took a read today and there is NOTHING in it to prevent antisemitism let alone terrorism, she wants families to sit around at the table and tell their kids it's not ok to say certain things, **** me, if that's the best she can come up with then we need to try again.

Reading the report again today in the shadow of what's happened.

It's clear that the report is about protecting Israel and teaching kids about the holocaust so they know how special Israel is.

If it even remotely tried to address bigotry or intolerance it might be able to be taken seriously.

Farming out policy to a self-interest group (who also fund racist groups) was the biggest policy failure. Had they got a professional group in to do it (anti-semitism and Islamophobia together), they might have come up with something useful and actionable which genuinely brought the community together.

Instead they got nonsense from the anti-semitism envoy.

Then when they got sensible options from the Islamophobia envoy, they didn't want to implement those either because they hadn't adopted any of the Segal nonsense. The Islamophobia one talks bout all forms of discrimination being bad and includes Islamophobia. The anti-semitism one talks about anti-semitism as if it's separate and more important than other forms of racism. (Both do it to an extent, but the anti-semitism one barely mentions any other form of discrimination.

 

[Gough]

Why wont you acknowledge the part immigration has played in such events?

My parents are immigrants, would you blame them for any of my misdeeds, would they still be at fault if I had kids and they played up?

 

[faible]

Some food for thought:

 

[faible]

What are you blathering about?

Of course it's the perpetrators fault.

We're not being nice to Muslims to prevent them from killing us, we just disagree with people saying dumb shit and making blanket assumptions about whole groups of people.

If you antagonise and persecute people, they are less likely to want to engage with you. But sure, keep pretending not to understand.

Also pretty sure the core tenets of Islam is pretty different to neo-nazism.

Pretending they’re analogous comparisons is very strange.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Mehdi makes a good point. People should be able to live their lives without being judged based on others they happen to share a religion with. They shouldn't need to be saving the day to be afforded that basic respect.

 

[Sphynx]

Some food for thought:

So I assume they are now blending serial killers with terrorist attacks for some bent data?

What relevance are people like Ivan Milat, John Glover and Roger Dean to events like Bondi and Port Arthur?

 

[ElectricG]

Some food for thought:

Police believe mother responsible for all four deaths in Tullamarine homicide

Police believe the woman found dead with her three children in Melbourne's north-west on Thursday was responsible for all four deaths.

www.abc.net.au

Ignoring the fact that the attempt to bury Islamic terrorism amongst family and gang violence is a desperate one, this story alone shows the data is probably completely made up.

 

[Balls In]

My parents are immigrants, would you blame them for any of my misdeeds, would they still be at fault if I had kids and they played up?

Yes if your parents raised you to hate a particular race and you mass murder a bunch of them.

 

[Sphynx]

My parents are immigrants, would you blame them for any of my misdeeds, would they still be at fault if I had kids and they played up?

Spend 5 minutes reading the Tom Silvagni thread if you want a solid social test of that question from average Australians

 

[Johnny Bananas]

So I assume they are now blending serial killers with terrorist attacks for some bent data?

What relevance are people like Ivan Milat, John Glover and Roger Dean to events like Bondi and Port Arthur?

Oh yeah serial killers are just fine and dandy, it's only when they're killing in the name of Islam that I start caring.

 

[CM86]

not my job to give you a course on improvised firearms mate. if you think i'm lying i don't care at all.

I didn't take issue with you around the existence of improvised firearms. I took issue with your statement around guns being made in solitary confinement.

Can you either correct your post, or provide evidence to support it?

I've reported your original post, because I'm against the promotion of fear, hate and general disinformation being spread more easily due to this historical tragedy.

 

[Sphynx]

Oh yeah serial killers are just fine and dandy, it's only when they're killing in the name of Islam that I start caring

Are we seriously meant to take a moment of reflection and thanks because a racial minority doesn’t make up the last half century of serial killers of every persuasion?

Am I the only one not almost laughing at how absurdly long the bow is to link the two things?

I almost have to tip my hat to the account attempting it

 

[ElectricG]

Didn’t a woman just kill three people with a beef Wellington???

 

[Markfs]

This is the thing
There is no silver bullet solution. When you pin the hysterical down and ask them this question you get nothing practical

actually i found access to the zion bible on my library app - the australian - and there's an article there today where josh frydenberg recaps the past 2 years and then suggests the report from the antisemitism czar....

so i went there and she makes a series of recommendations, which go into every inch of australian society....

re-program the kids in schools
promote jewish culture
more programming in sports
more tests for. those entering australia to discover anti-jewish attitudes and more programming of border people
more work by ASIO
re-program of businesses
putting money into jewish culture
re-program media outlets
censorship of internet.

These are the ones that I can remember. There are about 40, divided into about 10 headings.

I didn see anything about making KFC kosher....