Play Nice 47th President of the United States: ████████████ - Part 23: Si buscan capitalismo, aquí está!!

[Gethelred]

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This thread is not about Covid, lockdowns, or vaccines. While Trump was in office during the pandemic and his response to Covid is relevant, there are pertinent threads for you to post your opinions on those topics.

On SRP you are responsible for backing up/verifying your claims to fact. What this means is that you will be asked time to time to support your claims with evidence, to ensure that this forum is as free of misinfomation as we can make it.

Do not post conspiracy theories on this forum. We have an entire other forum for that.

Thanks all.

 

[10571z]

Two things can be true:

1. Maduro was a shit guy, running a shit administration.
2. The US has breached international law and has a history of regime changes ending up leaving places worse off.

Correct. How do you overthrow a dictator government then?

 

[76woodenspooners]

Do you read your stuff?

No.

He’s so tired of his own meandering that he’s placed himself on ignore.

 

[faible]

Correct. How do you overthrow a dictator government then?

Obviously by bypassing the legal mechanisms of your own country to launch an attack on another country, kidnap their leadership (even if illegitimate) and alert major oil companies in advance that you'll be stealing the oil.

If the US is so worried about democracy there's places much closer to home to start looking. But this wasn't about democracy or dictators. It was about stealing the oil.

 

[Baldur]

Obstructing a road is a state law and the governor of Michigan is a Democrat.

Protesting without a permit is illegal if it obstructs the road.

Nothing to do with Trump.

Stop believing this propaganda BS.

She was on the sidewalk not the road, as my post made quite clear. Engaged in what in the US is called "1st amendment constitutionally protected activity". Which means the people doing the illegal activity were the police.

Something which MAGA screams to the rooftops when they wish to provoke violence and denigrate people. But as always with them, its one rule for us and another for everybody else.

As for the governor being a Democrat, so what. I never suggested that the police where ordered by the governor to arrest her. Indeed I very much doubt it. But the police chief and mayor might be a bit annoyed with their officers when they get sued.

I am suggesting Trump has created a situation whereby police feel empowered to ignore the law and rule by personal fait. Because that is what he is getting away with.

All the news articles did was report the facts and gave a sample of the sort of thing she was saying. The closest to editorializing was one of the articles had a quote from a professor of international relations as to the wisdom of Trumps actions. But in your mind I guess if the facts do not fit your version of what should be reality, its BS propaganda.

By the way, here is a video of the protest, the arrest and the interview with the professor.

Grand Rapids protesters, local professor react to U.S. strikes on Venezuela and capture of president

One protest organizer interviewed by 13 ON YOUR SIDE was arrested by Grand Rapids police officers on camera.

www.wzzm13.com

 

[bzparkes]

She was on the sidewalk not the road, as my post made quite clear. Engaged in what in the US is called "1st amendment constitutionally protected activity". Which means the people doing the illegal activity were the police.

Something which MAGA screams to the rooftops when they wish to provoke violence and denigrate people. But as always with them, its one rule for us and another for everybody else.

As for the governor being a Democrat, so what. I never suggested that the police where ordered by the governor to arrest her. Indeed I very much doubt it. But the police chief and mayor might be a bit annoyed with their officers when they get sued.

I am suggesting Trump has created a situation whereby police feel empowered to ignore the law and rule by personal fait. Because that is what he is getting away with.

All the news articles did was report the facts and gave a sample of the sort of thing she was saying. The closest to editorializing was one of the articles had a quote from a professor of international relations as to the wisdom of Trumps actions. But in your mind I guess if the facts do not fit your version of what should be reality, its BS propaganda.

By the way, here is a video of the protest, the arrest and the interview with the professor.

Grand Rapids protesters, local professor react to U.S. strikes on Venezuela and capture of president

One protest organizer interviewed by 13 ON YOUR SIDE was arrested by Grand Rapids police officers on camera.

www.wzzm13.com

This is a reach, considering they are state law enforcement, not federal.

It's a Democrat run state.

I'm also not suggesting you are saying the governor said to arrest her.

 

[pjcrows]

Correct. How do you overthrow a dictator government then?

Its not up to a country to "overthrow" the governments of other countries or arrest their leaders that aren't a threat. There are ways to influence change, certainly.

You're also contradicting yourself. One minute it's about democracy, the next it's about oil.

 

[bzparkes]

You do this in another threads too...I don't have to refer to post #647 like it's a research paper you wrote... I'm just calling you out on it.

Obviously your last 20 posts here are all just garbage about other posts and posters, getting rhetorically brought up needlessly.

You've obviously exhausted all your arguments and rebuttals regarding this topic, so that's why you're left with the tripe your serving now. Nobody has to return serve when you keep double-faulting.

You're actually right. I don't have anything further I can be bothered contributing but you lot keep quoting me anyway. Was it you who was complaining I wasn't responding to everyone's posts earlier, or was that someone else?

Very happy to leave you lot to your echo-chamber if you stop quoting me demanding a response.

Deal?

 

[Financialpanther]

Correct. How do you overthrow a dictator government then?

Is there a question of, should you? Noting how odious a dictator can or may be, is it one country's right to do such a thing?

 

[FromOldFitzroy]

I’m sorry if this has been posted before, but here are US overseas interventions since whenever:

US Interventions

Global Policy Forum is a policy watchdog that follows the work of the United Nations. We promote accountability and citizen participation in decisions on peace and security, social justice and international law.

archive.globalpolicy.org

The hand of the CIA is in a few. Many did not end well, and some were based on inaccurate information (Iraq). Oil has been a factor.
Further, what gives the US the ‘right’ to intervene or interfere in another country’s internal affairs? Just because the country is in some proximity to the US and happens to have a socialist government, is that reason enough?
It can be argued that the US is hardly a glittering example of a democracy when 1/3 of its people don’t even vote, and the powers that be, both sides, don’t make it easy to vote. (Reverse of the late 19th/early 20th century move for universal suffrage).
It wants Greenland for its own security and therefore everyone has to say, yes, that’s fine.
It’s also worth remembering how late the US were in stepping up to the plate in WW1 and WW2.

 

[GreyCrow]

Didn’t work did it? While Venezuela saw one of the biggest population exits from the county.

Venezuela would otherwise be under his rule for how long as he lives

How many left

 

[Royces Hart]

Correct. How do you overthrow a dictator government then?

Have massive oil reserves and wait for the US to do it for you.

 

[GreyCrow]

Correct. How do you overthrow a dictator government then?

From within

 

[Zidane98]

Im not an expert but I reckon 17 trillion worth of Oil could be worthwhile spending 100B to get up to speed.

Won't be worth $17 trillion in 20-30 years and the US already has $6 trillion of oil available right now on its own territory that doesn't need $100 billion spent on and doesn't need transporting from another continent.


This is all about personal gain for Trump and his associates well past his presidency.

 

[Baldur]

This is a reach, considering they are state law enforcement, not federal.

It's a Democrat run state.

I'm also not suggesting you are saying the governor said to arrest her.

They were not state law enforcement. They were Grand Rapids police. But as its very doubtful the police were ordered to arrest her by the mayor, that's also of little importance.

She was protesting Trumps actions so to that extent its related to Trump and deserves its place on this thread.

Could it just be general US police arseholery, of which there is a long history? Maybe, but overreach by law enforcement appears to be a Trumpian theme. Particularly when Trump's actions are questioned.

 

[bzparkes]

They were not state law enforcement. They were Grand Rapids police. But as its very doubtful the police were ordered to arrest her by the major that's also of little importance.

She was protesting Trumps actions so to that extent its related to Trump and deserves its place on this thread.

Could it just be general US police arseholery, of which there is a long history? Maybe, but overreach by law enforcement appears to be a Trumpian theme. Particularly when Trump's actions are questioned.

Ok fair enough they were Grand Rapids police but the point still stands. I simply think it's a very long bow to draw that the Trump administration would arrest some random small protest leader in Grand Rapids Michigan, which is run by a Democrat mayor.

She was arrested for obstructing a roadway and resisting arrest.

Unless the footage you've provided show the entire protest, it's difficult to assert the was on the sidewalk the entire time.

Yes, protesting is protected under USA 1st amendment. That doesn't protect you from unlawful activity whilst protesting, such as obstructing a roadway or failing to obey a lawful order.

Presumably she was either on the road herself at one stage, or refused to direct the protestors to get off the road. As you can see in the link wo the wzzm13.com article you linked, there are numerous protestors on the road, hence 'obstructing a roadway'. You can see at the start of the clip the police car is pushed to the middle/right of the road.

 

[pjcrows]

Ok fair enough they were Grand Rapids police but the point still stands. I simply think it's a very long bow to draw that the Trump administration would arrest some random small protest leader in Grand Rapids Michigan, which is run by a Democrat mayor.

She was arrested for obstructing a roadway and resisting arrest.

Unless the footage you've provided show the entire protest, it's difficult to assert the was on the sidewalk the entire time.

Yes, protesting is protected under USA 1st amendment. That doesn't protect you from unlawful activity whilst protesting, such as obstructing a roadway or failing to obey a lawful order.

Presumably she was either on the road herself at one stage, or refused to direct the protestors to get off the road. As you can see in the link wo the wzzm13.com article you linked, there are numerous protestors on the road, hence 'obstructing a roadway'. You can see at the start of the clip the police car is pushed to the middle/right of the road.

So bzparkes can reply to posts with context, detail and examples.

Fancy that.

 

[Nikita Blue]

Its not up to a country to "overthrow" the governments of other countries or arrest their leaders that aren't a threat. There are ways to influence change, certainly.

You're also contradicting yourself. One minute it's about democracy, the next it's about oil.

If only there was some sort of agency that engaged in soft diplomacy.

 

[Mofra]

Correct. How do you overthrow a dictator government then?

You don't if you have campaigned on non-intervention. Unless you were lying.

 

[ferball]

There will be a point when everyone will turn on America (including AI). That's unless a civil war occurs there first.

AI is already competing with Americans for resources, just on a local level.

The future is already here, just not evenly distributed yet, as someone once said.

 

[Seeds]

He's wanting his cut way down the track for him and his family for a few generations out of Venezuela before oil becomes even further devalued. Oil has maybe only a generation or 2 before it is obsolete as the main energy source for personal transportation. Eventually oil will be the main energy source for heavy transportation, both aviation & marine. Everything else will be electric or hybrid electric.


It makes far more sense for Trump to exploit USA's untapped 100 billion barrel oil reserves and/or scale up fracking if it's oil he wants on a national level. However, the trend for oil consumption is downward and the US already has plenty of access to oil to meet its needs. This can't be about the interests of the USA IMO.

That's why I believe this is more about what's good for the Orange Mussolini and his cronies personally than anything else - like everything he's done since in office.

Is not a generation or 2. Its 10-15 years.

 

[ferball]

Didn’t work did it? While Venezuela saw one of the biggest population exits from the county.

Venezuela would otherwise be under his rule for how long as he lives

So Biden's bounty worked because Venezuelans left Venezuela?

 

[Baldur]

Ok fair enough they were Grand Rapids police but the point still stands. I simply think it's a very long bow to draw that the Trump administration would arrest some random small protest leader in Grand Rapids Michigan, which is run by a Democrat mayor.

She was arrested for obstructing a roadway and resisting arrest.

Unless the footage you've provided show the entire protest, it's difficult to assert the was on the sidewalk the entire time.

Yes, protesting is protected under USA 1st amendment. That doesn't protect you from unlawful activity whilst protesting, such as obstructing a roadway or failing to obey a lawful order.

Presumably she was either on the road herself at one stage, or refused to direct the protestors to get off the road. As you can see in the link wo the wzzm13.com article you linked, there are numerous protestors on the road, hence 'obstructing a roadway'. You can see at the start of the clip the police car is pushed to the middle/right of the road.

Nobody even hinted that the Trump administration arrested her. Strawman.

By the way, you have not yet attempted to defend your allegation that the articles were BS propaganda. Interesting.

Yes the fact its Democrat mayor makes it very unlikely the arrest was ordered by the mayor. So likely a couple of cops acting on their own volition.

We do not know but can reasonably assume that at some stage she was on the road and that she was ordered to leave said road. If the police order you to get off the road because you are obstructing traffic and you follow their instruction, they cannot then arrest you for being on the road or failing to obey their instruction. She was not arrested for resisting arrest, indeed she makes it quite clear she was not resisting in the video. Interesting that you would think otherwise.

We do not know what the alleged "lawful order" was, but in context it was almost certainly to get off the road. She was not on the road when arrested, indeed she had conducted an interview with the media on the sidewalk, that we can see.

As for the 1st amendment not protecting you from unlawful activity while protesting, if the only alleged unlawful activity is the protest, it does. The simple fact of the matter is when she was arrested she was on the sidewalk, talking to the media. That is protected activity, any order for her to cease is not a lawful order.

Refused to direct protestors to get off the road. WTF Unless she has some sort of legal authority over the protestors, that is not a lawful order, as she has no legal power to order them to do so.

Right-wing individuals tend to view the world as naturally hierarchical and believe in submission to authority. There is a psychological need for order, structure, and a rigid worldview. So the simple fact she was arrested by police, in your world view means, she was wrong.

 

[Seeds]

Yes. Yes it is now!



When has that ever happened before?

Its a bit like saying:

"If I stand in this paddock holding the usb end of my phone charger (while while the other end is plugged into the phone,) and this metal pole above my head, eventually I might get struck by lighting and it might charge my phone any way by accident."

And only slightly less likely.

Yes???

Unless Ive misinterpreted what you have meant by yes you do get that advocating for fallacies means you are removing yourself from all rational debate right? Rational argument has laws that determine who is most likely right vs wrong. If you dont accept the laws you cant really play the game.

Also your analogy isnt quite right. Trump may be holding a metal pole up in a storm because he thinks its will given him super powers. But the only reason a large chunk of the international community have allowed him to go outside in the rain is because of the promise it will charge up their phones.

 

[bourbons]

So what exactly was Biden expecting to happen? That someone would see a $25 million reward and not attempt to capture or kill the target? That it was merely for optics? Bounties exist to produce outcomes…

Yes exactly, that someone else would - because he knew that the US military launching strikes on a foreign sovereign nation and kidnapping the bloke along with his wife probably wasn't the best idea. This isn't complicated mate, despite your best efforts to make it so.

Yet again, just mind boggling false equivalence on display. Its a bodily function for you at this point.

 

[Satan]

The Venezuelan presidents weapon

2.9M views · 26K reactions | Chi-Chi Rodríguez. 1984 RBC Heritage. Simple times. | PGA TOUR Champions

Chi-Chi Rodríguez. 1984 RBC Heritage. Simple times.

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