Autopsy Round 5 = Collingwood 39-45 Fremantle

[parano1a]

Frustrating game.
We played incredibly well, only to be let down by missing easy shots on goal when it mattered.
Great debut by Anderson.
Cop the L and move on, let's smash the Blues!

 

[ottoman]

I think the fact that kicking 45 points against us is enough to win you the game says it all.

 

[IlovethePies]

I think the fact that kicking 45 points against us is enough to win you the game says it all.

Sure, but what about the fact that they could only kick 45 points against us?

 

[Kappa]

Yes but at least we'd be giving them much needed exposure and fast track their development. We will have something to look forward to. Tell me what is there to look forward to while playing like this.

When we missed those chances to score in the 4th I knew we were going to loose. We have become so predictable that way.

Getting smashed by 10 goals stunts development more than fast tracking it.

We need a balance of youth and experience

 

[LuckyLee]

Look, TBH i dont care if we play an attractive brand or not if it optimises our chances of winning.

Pretty clearly, this team is still attempting to create the midfield forward line dynamic.

West and Buller will have to come in because Membrey and McStay are not going to provide the fire power we need.

So, if we require a defensive game plan while this is being sorted out, so be it.

Doesn't mean we are ordinary across the field. Our defensive systems are top class.

Just means that we need to sort out our forward line and its connection with the midfield, and while we are doing that the defensive system will dominate our method of play. This is not a permanent decision, it is just most likely what needs to happen for us to develop the forward line.

The problem though is that we lack the talent of at least 8-10 other teams, especially in terms of tall marking targets. Switching in West and Buller for Membrey and McStay won’t achieve anything because they’re all B/C graders. It’s shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic.

Checkers delivered so much more than could have reasonably been expected of him but, really, we haven’t had a proper key forward since Travis Cloke.

 

[IlovethePies]

The problem though is that we lack the talent of at least 8-10 other teams, especially in terms of tall marking targets. Switching in West and Buller for Membrey and McStay won’t achieve anything because they’re all B/C graders. It’s shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic.

Checkers delivered so much more than could have reasonably been expected of him but, really, we haven’t had a proper key forward since Travis Cloke.

Well the point is that we don't actually know what West and Buller are capable of. So we have to find out. Whether it is indeed shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic, or whether it is shuffling a deck of cards and producing a couple of aces. We don't know.

But what we do know is that the shuffling has to start immediately, and while it does, we will definitely need to rely on our key assets, ie a defensive team system to suppress opposition scoring.

This dynamic can very rapidly change if our forward line can improve, even only slightly.

 

[tmpies01]

We did SO MUCH right tonight and to not bank the four points stings. The better team lost. It’s sickening to say.

Even if we turn things around, this game (like last year) will be one of those losses we look back on and kick ourselves because it cost us in the end ladder position wise…

 

[foreigner]

Think we try and Keep teams to low as score as Possible as we can't Kick Big Scores

If this is our strategy this.year it's not going to end well. Defence only with no viable offence will not win us many games nor admirers.

 

[Matrix10]

I think you could make a strong argument that McRae has a bit of hard on for the senior players, to be fair I can not remember when one was dropped due to form, except for Cox.

Yet Limpdicksci remains. Faaark .. would never want to have him
as a want you by my side in the trenches. Total soft ****

 

[Linda Lovelace]

McRae is still an excellent coach precisely because our team is now rubbish. Sometimes you have to keep the fight in a phone booth to try to beat a superior boxer.

Or in the case of this particular football game, sometimes you have to try to drag the superior boxer into the sewer and attempt to suffocate him with faeces.

 

[tmpies01]

I’m done with McStay. I can’t handle another week of him playing worse than McKay’s worst.

Fly won’t drop him because he takes a couple of okay marks. If we’re serious we should be bringing in West next week.

 

[foreigner]

Getting smashed by 10 goals stunts development more than fast tracking it.

We need a balance of youth and experience

How did you deduce that we will be smashed by 10 goals? We may have kicked a few more that 5 goals and not struggle to convert

Hawks let go of many of their established players and then played the kids. They lost many games but improved fast enough to become a contender. It injected much needed spark to their game as well. They became good to watch too.

We have lost all our spark. Play your footy which is depressing to say the least


We

 

[Matrix10]

McRae is still an excellent coach precisely because our team is now rubbish. Sometimes you have to keep the fight in a phone booth to try to beat a superior boxer.

Or in the case of this particular football game, sometimes you have to try to drag the superior boxer into the sewer and attempt to suffocate him with faeces.

You are spot on with this observation...only one weak link in our boxers corner. Limpdicksci

 

[ksardog]

I can’t see the point of playing Steene if you are not going to use him in the centre square, you may as well play Buller who is more mobile
To be clear, I want Steene in the side, but it’s baffling how he is not trusted in game 2 or 3 to be in the centre square, but he is on debut

Steene at the majority of centre bounces
West in for Membrey
Parker in for Lipinski
Perryman to the midfield

These 4 simple changes will improve our side

 

[901023]

McRae is still an excellent coach precisely because our team is now rubbish. Sometimes you have to keep the fight in a phone booth to try to beat a superior boxer.

Or in the case of this particular football game, sometimes you have to try to drag the superior boxer into the sewer and attempt to suffocate him with faeces.

Yes, he's taken a leaf out of Ross Lyon's book of coaching.

However, there is only upside in playing West / McCarthy / Howes ahead of McStay / Membrey as the former trio are about 10 year younger each and have upside!

 

[Roverjg]

A frustrating result. We controlled the game for long stretches and still found a way to lose it through poor decisions, worse execution, and a complete inability to finish.

De Goey started well and was influential until he went off with a game ending injury 10 minutes into the 1st quarter. He may well have been the difference.

Schultz was typical Schultz—100% relentless effort (10 kicks, 8 handballs, 5 marks, 8 tackles, 5 inside 50)—but once again let himself down where it matters most. Three behinds, two absolute sitters, and a poor attempt from 35–40m that didn’t even make the distance. He is one of my favourites and I love his intent, but at some point effort isn’t enough. His goal kicking and lack of penetration are real issues—6.4 for the season, with multiple shots not even reaching the goal from very gettable range. That’s unacceptable at this level.

McStay (5 kicks, 5 marks, 7 tackles) 1 goal and missed a crucial sitter. Membrey (7 marks), 1 goal but butchered two points and is going at under 50% in front of goal this year. Elliott had 15 touches but provided zero presence as a forward. Media commentators have rated our forward line as the worst in the AFL. Tonight would have consolidated their belief.

The stats are damning: inside 50s (61–45), tackles inside 50 (25–7), marks inside 50 (11–5). Total dominance everywhere—except on the scoreboard. Fremantle barely went inside 50, yet every time they did, they looked more likely to score. That’s the difference—composure and competence.

Our forward entries were atrocious. Predictable, lazy bombs into packs all day. Without the work horse/ battering ram of Mihocek and the swagger of Cox this year, the structure has fallen apart. Elliott is flying three-deep with no genuine target, and there’s no one capable of clunking a contested mark. The reality is blunt—we don’t have a tall-marking forward, and it’s killing us. Watching Fremantle with a target like Josh Treacy only reinforced that gap.

Cameron and Elliott continue to underdeliver despite being well looked after contract-wise. Lipinski had no impact again, while Long, Steele, Sidebottom and Steene largely unsighted.

There were a few positives. Anderson showed real promise on debut (15 kicks, 5 marks, 6 tackles, 477 metres gained), and Maynard was excellent down back (16 kicks, 9 marks, 6 tackles), well supported by Frampton (94% efficiency) and Perryman.

Nick Daicos racked up 31 disposals (4 marks, 7 I50’s; 5 clearances; 5 R50’s; 5 SI’s and 638mg) was again everywhere, but even he had some uncharacteristic lapses—most notably the missed shot on the run in the last quarter.

Bottom line: we dominated the game and still lost because we couldn’t execute the basics. Our team has more holes than Swiss cheese, and last week showed how we are without Naicos, Pendles & Moore in the side. However, it is not doom and gloom. We are currently 2-3. We could have been 4-1. The next 5 weeks will define our season with games against Carlton, Essendon, Hawks, Geelong and Sydney

 

[gouki88]

He's a good footballer, and had a decent year. My question was whether he is living up to pick 13 in a National Draft.

However the 2018 National Draft was notoriously shallow.

Having said that pick 12 was Zak Butters, and pick 15 was Jordan Clark.

He has already played more games than the average pick 11-20, and is almost a certain 200-250+ gamer. What a silly question

 

[crackerss08]

Fly getting out coached every week is concerning . His predictable boring defensive style is Ross Lyon like ! Allow the team to release the shackles and play free flowing attacking football!! Not this dire dribble being served up to us. Nick daicos is coating how bad fly is coaching

 

[gouki88]

Yes but at least we'd be giving them much needed exposure and fast track their development. We will have something to look forward to. Tell me what is there to look forward to while playing like this.

When we missed those chances to score in the 4th I knew we were going to loose. We have become so predictable that way.

What good has exposure to constant thrashing done West Coast? North? Essendon? It is important to foster a winning culture

 

[greening22]

Straight swap Sidebottom for Jed.

Or would they consider a package of Allan / DeMattia?

I am not sure about the last recommended swap package but seriously young Walter is someone I would be definitely looking at as a potential recruit whom I would be targetting. Ok.

 

[nickyds35]

He's a good footballer, and had a decent year. My question was whether he is living up to pick 13 in a National Draft.

However the 2018 National Draft was notoriously shallow.

Having said that pick 12 was Zak Butters, and pick 15 was Jordan Clark.

Notoriously shallow? Top 15 was pretty immense.

And a decent about of good players found later in the draft Bedford, Idun, Schultz, Scott, McInerny, Briggs, Jordan all taken after 30 - 70

 

[LuckyLee]

Well the point is that we don't actually know what West and Buller are capable of. So we have to find out. Whether it is indeed shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic, or whether it is shuffling a deck of cards and producing a couple of aces. We don't know.

But what we do know is that the shuffling has to start immediately, and while it does, we will definitely need to rely on our key assets, ie a defensive team system to suppress opposition scoring.

This dynamic can very rapidly change if our forward line can improve, even only slightly.

Of our potential forwards, McStay, Membrey, Elliott, DeGoey, Hill and even Schultz are all past their career peaks. McCreery isn’t past his but is frustratingly inconsistent.

West looks promising but only as a 2nd or 3rd key forward - he needs a proven gun to take the opposition’s best defender. Imagine what Harris Andrews would do to him. Buller has played about 10 AFL games over the past year, with three goals against WCoast his only performance of note. I see more potential in him as a key defender.

Really, we need to throw the kitchen sink at Ben King and also try to prise free an under-utilised but proven tall forward, such as Jed Walter or Max Gruzewski. But would any of them want to come to us?

 

[Bianconeri]

Then he shouldn't play. Or, we shouldn't just concede centre dominance with a better centre stoppage ruck on the bench.

I thought he did well when he played forward and when he dropped back in defence.

Why shouldn’t he play? Our key forwards and ruck still need a rotation.

He’s okay forward and dropping back. Just not as good as the other options.

 

[BillyElliott]

How could anyone criticise IQ's game?

 

[PonsfordMagpie]

Fly's presser

You did a lot right for most of the night, but you've walked away without the points

"Yeah, we're a bit frustrated. I just wanted to reward the effort of the players because last week we didn't do the jumper proud. Funny, we had Wakes [Shane Wakelin

Shane Wakelin

Age

51

Ht

192cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.8

2star

K

7.0

3star

HB

2.8

2star

M

3.4

3star

T

1.3

3star

No current season stats available

D

10.8

3star

K

8.2

4star

HB

2.6

3star

M

3.4

4star

T

0.8

3star

] present the jumper to Angus Anderson in his first game before the game. I've never worn the jumper, so I can't speak of it. He had emotion of what it meant to him to wear the jumper and be a part of the Collingwood family. It's important that our players put it on and it represents something. For most parts of tonight, I thought we did the jumper proud. We've got some work to do, no problems at all. At least that part of our game and DNA if you like was on show in tough conditions".

Where do you pinpoint you lost it tonight?

"Moments. Didn't take our chances. In a low scoring game in tough conditions, even just decision making stuff late like 'what are we doing?'. Certain phases of the game, we've traditionally been really good at this thing of managing these moments. We just didn't manage ours tonight. Sometimes you got to live it to go through it and grow. Who knows, that could be our story, I'm not sure. We just didn't manage those moments in critical times".

Some of those moments, particularly in the first quarter you had 15 inside 50s to 5 and didn't generate enough score. In the back end of the third quarter it was a similar case where you had repeat inside 50 entries but you couldn't hit the scoreboard.

"It would suggest you're playing a good brand of footy when the ball is in your forward half. You play against Fremantle and the game is going to be a lot of numbers back. We dominated inside 50s last time I think we played them too. It's really hard to articulate how you score. You got to be really measured and the old Leigh Matthews [saying] 'it's hard for us to score, but impossible for them'. They didn't score did they from any of those phases? Those phases are difficult and I think everybody in the competition on this ground with wet conditions, you can play a forward half game and these Adelaide teams, both [Adelaide] teams have done that historically over the years".

You denied Fremantle speed too. Once again, Billy Frampton

17

Billy Frampton

Age

29

Ht

201cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.1

2star

K

5.1

2star

HB

4.0

3star

M

3.1

3star

T

0.7

3star

MG

99.0

2star

D

8.5

2star

K

4.8

2star

HB

3.8

3star

M

3.5

3star

T

0.5

1star

MG

99.0

2star

D

9.2

3star

K

5.6

3star

HB

3.6

3star

M

2.8

3star

T

1.0

3star

MG

107.0

2star

and Jeremy Howe

38

Jeremy Howe

Age

35

Ht

190cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.0

4star

K

11.2

4star

HB

5.7

4star

M

6.4

5star

T

2.1

4star

MG

318.1

4star

D

21.5

5star

K

16.5

5star

HB

5.0

3star

M

6.5

5star

T

2.0

3star

MG

433.3

5star

D

15.2

4star

K

9.0

4star

HB

6.2

4star

M

6.8

5star

T

1.6

4star

played really well down back and to eliminate that you played the long kick down the line.

"I'm certain that Justin [Longmuir] is going to sit here and say we slowed them down really well because we did. We defended the ground really well. They had one passage of play late where they looked fast and went through the corridor, which we knew they would try to [do]. Jamie [Elliott] had a chance to take that mark and it would have been potentially game over, so those little moments which we just didn't quite grab. I thought we defended the ground really well. Again, we didn't [defend the ground well] last week, Brisbane were brilliant and too good for us. We learnt some lessons, and here we are improving parts of our game which we need to".

You talk about moments, how much will you reflect on and regret the missed set shots at the start of the last quarter?

"I don't think anyone goes to bed going 'you know what, tomorrow I'm going to set a goal and miss a goal from 20m out in critical moments'. Again, sometimes you have to live through it to then grow. Those guys in particular didn't take their chances. That's part and parcel of footy I suppose. You're paid to do that and you got to get to work on those things. Unless you're living it, then it's hard to really go through it. The game is not decided by those moments, and those set shots in particular. I don't want to put that pressure on them but again it does matter doesn't it at times when you don't quite execute. I talked around a bit of a circle there trying to protect them didn't I'?

Angus Anderson looks so comfortable at AFL level. His third quarter was excellent, and it looked like he gave you guys a lot of momentum.

"Yeah, and he kicks a critical goal in the third [quarter]. We got beaten at centre bounces again which has been a pattern for us at times when we lose parts of our game. Pleasing for him to come in and show everyone what he's good at. You can say it pre-game and go 'watch this guy tackle, watch this guy's toughness', but you got to go do it. First time as a player playing AFL footy, he's one that wore that jumper with great pride. He looks like a Collingwood player for a while now if he keeps playing like that".

How did you see Nick Daicos' performance overall? He obviously came in underdone and looked sore.

"Yeah, he's still sore. He doesn't quite have the same gait as he does. See how hard he works and then gets up sore and getting treatment on the bench. He's super critical to us. That's stating the obvious. Hopefully he's got through this game well and obviously we've got six days before we play the Blues. He's a pro like I keep saying".

How is Jordan De Goey

2

Jordan De Goey

Age

30

Ht

188cm

Wt

93kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.7

4star

K

10.0

4star

HB

6.7

4star

M

3.9

4star

T

3.1

5star

CL

2.3

4star

D

15.8

4star

K

9.7

4star

HB

6.2

4star

M

2.8

3star

T

1.7

3star

CL

2.3

4star

D

11.6

3star

K

6.2

3star

HB

5.4

4star

M

1.4

2star

T

4.8

5star

CL

2.6

5star

after his knock in the second quarter?

"He's a bit rusty so fingers crossed that he isn't too bad and doesn't linger around. I didn't see any of it. I just got told he's out for the game so I'll need to look at that. You guys are probably more aware of what transpired than I [am]".

The inaccuracy is one thing, but you have struggled to score. How difficult was it tonight in these conditions to then draw conclusions from whether you've improved or which way you've gone with it? Does it become an outlier to what you're trying to do?

"Well, I'm not sure what the narrative externally is. We just didn't connect at times. Early parts of the game we dominate and then we take the ball back fast, and then we don't connect. I'm watching the footage on the bench and get guys 'hey, have a look at this, this is an opportunity to go there'. Those things we are living. We're a bit messy forward of the ball aren't we? That's real. Lacking a bit of polish at times. I think we can all see that. We'll keep getting to work on connection. It's hard when you're playing the game in your forward half so much and then we set the ground up so well defensively and it's coming back. When it's coming back, how are we getting it back. Are we just going to bomb it in to undersized keys against [Alex] Pearce who had five intercept marks and is really hard to play against? It's a version of us that we need to keep evolving, but reality is, we did enough to win this game. I think everyone can see that. We just didn't quite grab our chances in tough conditions".

How did you assess the Billy Frampton

17

Billy Frampton

Age

29

Ht

201cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.1

2star

K

5.1

2star

HB

4.0

3star

M

3.1

3star

T

0.7

3star

MG

99.0

2star

D

8.5

2star

K

4.8

2star

HB

3.8

3star

M

3.5

3star

T

0.5

1star

MG

99.0

2star

D

9.2

3star

K

5.6

3star

HB

3.6

3star

M

2.8

3star

T

1.0

3star

MG

107.0

2star

- Josh Treacy match up?

"Bill's in good form. I think Bill's playing as good as I've ever seen him play. Looks really aggressive marking the ball in the wet. He's having a great season for us right now Bill. Pretty important to have a big key position player that can take away their best player. I don't know how many goals Treacy kicked [he was scoreless] but it wasn't a great night for keys really let's face it. Bill's been really important to us".

No other injury concerns?

"No, not at this stage. I think other than Jordy [De Goey] obviously. We got a six-day break and then a bigger break into Anzac Day. Should be fine I think".

Full post-match, R5: Magpies

Watch Collingwood’s press conference after round five’s match against Fremantle

www.afl.com.au