AFL Player 1: Andrew "Pidge" McGrath (vc) - The skip we didn't know we needed

[Beerfish]

Contract Status: Unrestricted Free Agent 2030
My Boy Draft 2024: Pick 13, Vindicater

 

[jannissary]

View attachment 2485840

Possible leadership group here.

checking the ipad at work is slack! focus pidge! focus duz!

 

[dank420_]

checking the ipad at work is slack! focus pidge! focus duz!

they are laughing react your posts m9

 

[faible]

Heppell and McGrath are not the same leaders. I’m not sure how this comparison has any traction.

Also I'm not sure we actually know what Heppell was like as a leader.

We assume because the club sucked and he had a bit of a she'll be right personality that it was Heppell's leadership failures. But perhaps Heppell was a really good leader that brought the group together and the group just sucked because for the most part, every department at the club sucked.

 

[thepokey]

Also I'm not sure we actually know what Heppell was like as a leader.

We assume because the club sucked and he had a bit of a she'll be right personality that it was Heppell's leadership failures. But perhaps Heppell was a really good leader that brought the group together and the group just sucked because for the most part, every department at the club sucked.

Honestly given what the club had just been through they probably needed a "she'll be right" nicest guy in the room as a leader at the time. So he probably was the best option. Ideally I'd have rathered Goddard kept the role but his style in that environment probably wouldn't have worked well.

But that Heppell style just doesn't feel like what is needed now. Just like you said though, an outsiders perspective, and we don't truly know. But same goes for not truly knowing if he was a good leader either.

 

[Mr Bultitude]

Also I'm not sure we actually know what Heppell was like as a leader.

We assume because the club sucked and he had a bit of a she'll be right personality that it was Heppell's leadership failures. But perhaps Heppell was a really good leader that brought the group together and the group just sucked because for the most part, every department at the club sucked.

His style was galvanising, which was exactly what the club needed at the time.

 

[P Money]

You don’t become VC for no reason. I don’t understand the logic of having to be an elite player to be eligible for leadership. It’s a different skill altogether with its own metrics.

If you've ever played team sports you'll know that the best players in the team have gravitas simply by virtue of being the best players. Very difficult for an average player on the team to command that type of respect regardless of how good your leadership skills may be, and very difficult to give critical feedback to other players on their performance when your performance has question marks over it.

And it's not just team sports. If you've ever had a manager who isn't amazing at their job - i.e. clearly more high-performing than you are - it's very difficult to cop feedback from them or to take them overly seriously.

There are some notable exceptions (i.e. Nick Maxwell) of successful captains that aren't elite players, but they are very much an exception. Most club captains are up there in the best handful of players at the club for good reason.

The surprising thing to me is the divergence of views on McGrath's on-field performance. I always thought the two camps were the 'he sucks' camp and the 'he's not that bad he just gets judged harshly based on being the #1 draft pick' camp. Genuinely did not realise there was a 'he's elite and in the best handful of players at the club and no-one is going past him' camp. Very interesting.

 

[thepokey]

Maybe that's how I gotta reframe it. Merrett + injury curse = as bad as the supplements saga for the club and now we need the nicest guy in the room again to help us out of it

 

[faible]

Honestly given what the club had just been through they probably needed a "she'll be right" nicest guy in the room as a leader at the time. So he probably was the best option. Ideally I'd have rathered Goddard kept the role but his style in that environment probably wouldn't have worked well.

But that Heppell style just doesn't feel like what is needed now. Just like you said though, an outsiders perspective, and we don't truly know. But same goes for not truly knowing if he was a good leader either.

His style was galvanising, which was exactly what the club needed at the time.

Heppell seemed to be a guy who brought the group together at a time when the club needed it, but there's no way to know whether we'd have had success if we'd had a properly functioning professional organisation around him.

McGrath vs Merrett miked up was a pretty interesting snippet of the differences of the two guys in-game leadership style. I don't think there's any guarantee the Merrett style leader drives success, Abblett Jnr was as elite as elite gets but had zero success as captain. McGrath is far from the perfect player, but he seems to be a guy who can relate across the breadth of the playing group, build up the guys on-field, and he's been a real unifier over the last couple of months with all the Merrett fallout.

In an ideal world your captain is a Selwood, Hodge or Reiwoldt who are genuinely elite players and exceptional leaders, but I don't think anyone fits that bill for us right now.

I think Heppell's leadership is judged based on the success of the club as a whole, where most of that is beyond his control. We've seen that basically our entire football department leadership, coaching, list management, medical and strength and conditioning departments have been changed since Heppell was captain. I think at a different club he'd be seen as a 'better' leader purely because they most likely had a functional department or two.

 

[VexOh]

Gah, another skipper in the Heppell mould of good bloke and 'she'll be right' attitude leaving it to other to demand the best out of themselves. Not sure he's what we need during this time.

 

[thepokey]

Heppell seemed to be a guy who brought the group together at a time when the club needed it, but there's no way to know whether we'd have had success if we'd had a properly functioning professional organisation around him.

McGrath vs Merrett miked up was a pretty interesting snippet of the differences of the two guys in-game leadership style. I don't think there's any guarantee the Merrett style leader drives success, Abblett Jnr was as elite as elite gets but had zero success as captain. McGrath is far from the perfect player, but he seems to be a guy who can relate across the breadth of the playing group, build up the guys on-field, and he's been a real unifier over the last couple of months with all the Merrett fallout.

In an ideal world your captain is a Selwood, Hodge or Reiwoldt who are genuinely elite players and exceptional leaders, but I don't think anyone fits that bill for us right now.

I think Heppell's leadership is judged based on the success of the club as a whole, where most of that is beyond his control. We've seen that basically our entire football department leadership, coaching, list management, medical and strength and conditioning departments have been changed since Heppell was captain. I think at a different club he'd be seen as a 'better' leader purely because they most likely had a functional department or two.

Yeah I should say my hesitation on McGrath is in no way an endorsement of wanting Merrett to stay on or think he's a wonderful captain. He is sort of too far the other way. On the field he's near flawless but his actual leadership skills really seemed lacking.

GAJ is good one to bring up. He always seemed like someone who was so naturally gifted that I don't know if he even knew how to teach others. He could just do things without being able to communicate that to others.

Maybe leadership will improve McGrath's personal game more too, I guess you never know. Does he thrive in the role so much that he feels emboldened to find another level in his own game. I guess we'll find out. I guess the good thing is I can't see it having the opposite effect, I don't think it will negatively effect his own game

 

[faible]

Yeah I should say my hesitation on McGrath is in no way an endorsement of wanting Merrett to stay on or think he's a wonderful captain. He is sort of too far the other way. On the field he's near flawless but his actual leadership skills really seemed lacking.

GAJ is good one to bring up. He always seemed like someone who was so naturally gifted that I don't know if he even knew how to teach others. He could just do things without being able to communicate that to others.

Maybe leadership will improve McGrath's personal game more too, I guess you never know. Does he thrive in the role so much that he feels emboldened to find another level in his own game. I guess we'll find out. I guess the good thing is I can't see it having the opposite effect, I don't think it will negatively effect his own game

Merrett didn't seem to be a unifier, which can be 'ok' with a fairly mature and self-motivated group around you, but probably isn't what the club actually needs at this point in time.

I think we like the idea of him as a serious competitor and a great player being the figurehead because it sells the idea the club will follow along with that.

Watching McGrath miked up, I think he's the kind of personality and leadership style this group needs in the here and now. We're going to have tough patches in the next year or two as we field a fairly young list, we need a guy who will build up the young guys when they make a mistake, and who's fully committed to the club and the playing group around him.

Long-term I think Roberts will be a leader in some form, and personally I see Sharp as potentially the single most important player we've drafted in recent years because if he becomes what a guy like that could become, he's your future leadership and culture builder.

 

[thepokey]

Merrett didn't seem to be a unifier, which can be 'ok' with a fairly mature and self-motivated group around you, but probably isn't what the club actually needs at this point in time.

I think we like the idea of him as a serious competitor and a great player being the figurehead because it sells the idea the club will follow along with that.

Watching McGrath miked up, I think he's the kind of personality and leadership style this group needs in the here and now. We're going to have tough patches in the next year or two as we field a fairly young list, we need a guy who will build up the young guys when they make a mistake, and who's fully committed to the club and the playing group around him.

Long-term I think Roberts will be a leader in some form, and personally I see Sharp as potentially the single most important player we've drafted in recent years because if he becomes what a guy like that could become, he's your future leadership and culture builder.

Yep, I find it hard to disagree with any of this. I have my reservations with McGrath but they're on a personal game level and how that might bleed into leadership. That was really my only main point. Other than that I think this nails it

 

[faible]

Yep, I find it hard to disagree with any of this. I have my reservations with McGrath but they're on a personal game level and how that might bleed into leadership. That was really my only main point. Other than that I think this nails it

For better or worse, McGrath gives you 100% effort every week. The reason he ends up with some of those infuriating 'runs himself in to trouble' or 'dump kick straight to opposition' moments is that's he's worked his ass off to present as an option when too often not many others are working at all. There's guys that might be better if they had the ball, but they haven't always worked hard enough to make themselves an option.

Jake Kelly was often a bit similar, he wasn't always the best user (though last time I saw an analysis done McGrath leads to more scores than you'd expect) but he was a repeat sprint animal that always worked to provide an option to his teammates and so would end up with it.

 

[P Money]

For better or worse, McGrath gives you 100% effort every week. The reason he ends up with some of those infuriating 'runs himself in to trouble' or 'dump kick straight to opposition' moments is that's he's worked his ass off to present as an option when too often not many others are working at all. There's guys that might be better if they had the ball, but they haven't always worked hard enough to make themselves an option.

Jake Kelly was often a bit similar, he wasn't always the best user (though last time I saw an analysis done McGrath leads to more scores than you'd expect) but he was a repeat sprint animal that always worked to provide an option to his teammates and so would end up with it.

I'm realising how different people's opinions on McGrath's game are, so not here to pot him or try to change your mind. But explaining away his flaws (dump kicks over his shoulder out of the backline to nobody and taking off on sprints with no plan of where he is going or what he is going to do with the ball) by saying 'it's because other players aren't working as hard as him' is just odd.

I said it earlier but those flaws will make his job as an effective captain difficult, regardless of his leadership skills.

 

[jannissary]

all this hand wringing over the potential of someone to be a captain lol. at least wait until the team votes.

 

[Mr Bultitude]

Gah, another skipper in the Heppell mould of good bloke and 'she'll be right' attitude leaving it to other to demand the best out of themselves. Not sure he's what we need during this time.

What makes you think he’s in the Heppell mould?

 

[windyhill]

He’ll get it. I’d love Caldwell or Durham. Caldwell’s constant injuries probably rules him out.
McGrath the obvious certainty.

 

[Skipper_]

This guy is honestly so underrated.

No he isn’t a perfect player or a superstar by any means, but he is much better than the plodder many on here make him out to be.

Any discussion around him falling out of the side is pretty funny. He would get a game as a lockdown defender in most contending sides, let alone a rebuilding Essendon one.

 

[eth-dog]

In an alternative universe where O'Meara requests a trade to us (deal likely pick 1 for O'Meara and 4), McGrath is currently vice captain of GWS looking certain to be captain in the next couple of years after Toby and we have Ben Ainsworth

9

Ben Ainsworth

Age

27

Ht

178cm

Wt

77kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.1

4star

K

8.1

3star

HB

6.1

4star

M

3.5

4star

T

2.7

4star

G

0.7

4star

D

12.8

3star

K

8.3

3star

HB

4.5

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.3

3star

G

1.0

4star

D

13.6

4star

K

6.8

3star

HB

6.8

5star

M

3.8

4star

T

3.4

5star

G

0.6

3star

or Sam Petrevski-Seton

10

Sam Petrevski-seton

Age

27

Ht

182cm

Wt

81kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.2

4star

K

9.7

4star

HB

6.6

4star

M

3.6

4star

T

4.2

5star

G

0.3

3star

D

14.4

3star

K

9.5

4star

HB

4.9

3star

M

3.1

3star

T

2.0

3star

G

0.0

1star

D

13.4

4star

K

10.0

4star

HB

3.4

3star

M

2.8

3star

T

5.0

5star

G

0.4

3star

, we'd be lamenting that trade and passing up a possible captain in McGrath.

 

[jdstorm]

This guy is honestly so underrated.

No he isn’t a perfect player or a superstar by any means, but he is much better than the plodder many on here make him out to be.

Any discussion around him falling out of the side is pretty funny. He would get a game as a lockdown defender in most contending sides, let alone a rebuilding Essendon one.

plodder feels like a poor description for mcgraths flaws. Doesn’t ever really plod. He’s more of a lottery ticket feast or famine type who’s prone to brain fades.

Very similar player to Nick Hind really but with a better defensive game. (And less sketchy off field associates) who was in and out of the VFL despite some elite physical tools.

Andy has so many star level tools but it’s his decision making that’s his limiting factor and unfortunately that’s at a level that in the past has seemed to be not that of a winning player.

 

[MightyDon]

Looking forward to the back pocket captain putting the team on his shoulders, game day impact will be immense

 

[Skipper_]

Looking forward to the back pocket captain putting the team on his shoulders, game day impact will be immense

Tell that to premiership captains Nick Maxwell, Jarrad McVeigh, Easton Wood and Shannon Hurn.

 

[jannissary]

Tell that to premiership captains Nick Maxwell, Jarrad McVeigh, Easton Wood and Shannon Hurn.

don't bring logic into mightydon's complaining, please.

 

[fairbump_playon]

In footy leadership there’s
1. warmth & relatability / bringing people together
2. clear communication & expectation setting
3. willingness to hold others accountable and provide feedback, and
4. ability to be an inspiring, game changing player

Reckon Heppell had the first but not enough if 2 & 3. Was an ok player but not outstanding by the time he was captain.

McGrath is very “nice guy” but I suspect he will also bring more of 2 & 3 and maybe that’s enough to be the guy

 

[faible]

I'm realising how different people's opinions on McGrath's game are, so not here to pot him or try to change your mind. But explaining away his flaws (dump kicks over his shoulder out of the backline to nobody and taking off on sprints with no plan of where he is going or what he is going to do with the ball) by saying 'it's because other players aren't working as hard as him' is just odd.

I said it earlier but those flaws will make his job as an effective captain difficult, regardless of his leadership skills.

I get the feeling you read my comment in a way it wasn’t intended.

Not explaining flaws away, they exist. But the reason he gets so many possessions is that he works hard constantly to make himself an option. There’s a number of guys that might have better skills, but don’t have the work rate he does.

People see the former, but often neglect the latter.

I also think people exaggerate those flaws to a level that isn’t really representative of reality. The way some people talk it’s as though he’s a D grade player.