Delisted 13. Liam Stocker

[HARKER]

Stocker’s running is very poor - miles off AFL. Sounds like he has acknowledged it and is really working on it, but he’ll need to big time.

If he can turn it around, he has a chance to be really good. It’s much easier said than done though, and this is why people underrate footballers with great endurance relative to their cohort (eg Sam Walsh, Lachie Whitfield) - it’s assumed that everyone will just reach the same level once they hit AFL, which is not the case.

The fact is, they are already in the same semi-professional environment through the junior pathway and some still manage to be far superior in certain areas, whether it’s endurance, strength, pace, skills, hands etc. That edge often holds true at AFL level, because it’s not just the weak getting stronger, the strong are also getting stronger. Obviously there are exceptions - eg manchildren who have already physically peaked.

Just look at SPS for how a limited tank can prevent a player from reaching their potential. No slight on SPS, he has had his injury issues and I believe he has the right attitude to come good - I’m more referring to the fact that due to his tank he isn’t able to impact an entire game - yet. So important these days.

That's not good to hear and I now have visions of DVR struggling to keep up with the slowest running group, partnering Jones & Wood.
As a mid, if you can't run, you can't play.

Just with that snippet of info, I doubt Stocker will see any AFL action next year.

 

[Stefchook]

I wonder if we're pretty confident he could make it as a forward. But hopeful he can make it as a midfielder.

 

[Coona Blues]

Stocker’s running is very poor - miles off AFL. Sounds like he has acknowledged it and is really working on it, but he’ll need to big time.

If he can turn it around, he has a chance to be really good. It’s much easier said than done though, and this is why people underrate footballers with great endurance relative to their cohort (eg Sam Walsh, Lachie Whitfield) - it’s assumed that everyone will just reach the same level once they hit AFL, which is not the case.

The fact is, they are already in the same semi-professional environment through the junior pathway and some still manage to be far superior in certain areas, whether it’s endurance, strength, pace, skills, hands etc. That edge often holds true at AFL level, because it’s not just the weak getting stronger, the strong are also getting stronger. Obviously there are exceptions - eg manchildren who have already physically peaked.

Just look at SPS for how a limited tank can prevent a player from reaching their potential. No slight on SPS, he has had his injury issues and I believe he has the right attitude to come good - I’m more referring to the fact that due to his tank he isn’t able to impact an entire game - yet. So important these days.

The beauty of Stocker is that he doesn't necessarily have to be a midfielder to make a significant contribution to the team. We are all seduced by the prospect of players "running through the midfield" he has good burst speed so "Stocker's running is very poor" should in fact read Stocker's endurance or the more topical term tank, is poor.

We have a myriad of young midfielder types who can't all cohabitate in the guts in the short term. If we continue a full on development phase to the
detriment of performance, we will continue to languish at the bottom. Stocker will see plenty of Northern Blues time early, but if his form is solid, may
see himself off half back in the short term. Dual sided, good burst and step, he could easily follow Ratten, Carrazzo, maybe Docherty (who was as much
mid as defender as a kid) and play in defence while building his tank.

Please no bull sh1t about having too many HBFs as this is simply not the case in terms of absolute bankable quality.

We have Fisher and SPS needing to consolidate their midfield status next season, young gun Dow and winger O'Brien building their bodies, Setterfield
and Walsh project as superstars, but will need those development minutes. These added to midfield staples Cripps, Kennedy(yes), Ed and Murphy alleviate
any urgency in Liam's development other than his own hunger. We have come that far, and have JSOS, Lang and a couple of others also having some
claim to that mix.

 

[Juddernaut08]

Luke Parker at 6 in his drafting year would have been "laughed at".

Even Patrick Cripps at 6 would have been "laughed at"

So what?

Try to use a bit of critical thinking instead of getting all worked up.

 

[CJMB]

The beauty of Stocker is that he doesn't necessarily have to be a midfielder to make a significant contribution to the team. We are all seduced by the prospect of players "running through the midfield" he has good burst speed so "Stocker's running is very poor" should in fact read Stocker's endurance or the more topical term tank, is poor.

We have a myriad of young midfielder types who can't all cohabitate in the guts in the short term. If we continue a full on development phase to the
detriment of performance, we will continue to languish at the bottom. Stocker will see plenty of Northern Blues time early, but if his form is solid, may
see himself off half back in the short term. Dual sided, good burst and step, he could easily follow Ratten, Carrazzo, maybe Docherty (who was as much
mid as defender as a kid) and play in defence while building his tank.

Please no bull sh1t about having too many HBFs as this is simply not the case in terms of absolute bankable quality.

We have Fisher and SPS needing to consolidate their midfield status next season, young gun Dow and winger O'Brien building their bodies, Setterfield
and Walsh project as superstars, but will need those development minutes. These added to midfield staples Cripps, Kennedy(yes), Ed and Murphy alleviate
any urgency in Liam's development other than his own hunger. We have come that far, and have JSOS, Lang and a couple of others also having some
claim to that mix.

Wouldn't surprise me if when he starts getting games it's as a bit of a half forward, getting the occasional mid rotation and spending some time deeper inside the 50.

From the limited footage of watched there's a bit of Parker about him. Wouldn't complain if he became a combative fwd/mid type in the style of Parker/Ziebell/Petracca/Martin/etc

 

[Juddernaut08]

Bolts said Stocker was rated top 8. I don’t know where AFL media got pick six from, but it’s not far off what we know to be true.

This makes more sense.

If after the Elite 7 (or 8?) there was a dropoff to a large group of players rated around the same: i.e. 8-20 very closely rated, then a bolter like Stocker is very plausible.

Stocker may indeed become a superstar but as far as rating prospects go (factoring in weaknesses and risk), there was consensus for at least 6 players ahead of him.

 

[Ninja Worrier]

So what?

Try to use a bit of critical thinking instead of getting all worked up.

That was critical thinking...you missed it

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

So what?

Try to use a bit of critical thinking instead of getting all worked up.

I think critical thinking would imply not giving two shits about what other clubs reaction to us taking stocker at 6 if we had the pick. Which is the point they were making. Draft position isn’t important once they’re in the club doors.

 

[BlueTang]

That's not good to hear and I now have visions of DVR struggling to keep up with the slowest running group, partnering Jones & Wood.
As a mid, if you can't run, you can't play.

Just with that snippet of info, I doubt Stocker will see any AFL action next year.

For his year level, he was taken top 20 in the draft that’s a fact now. He also won a Morrish medal rating him the best in that league for the year (maybe others missed games which would have made a difference... I acknowledge that). That’s an incredible achievement, he must be able to run.
Journalists/colluminst have to write something to sell papers... lock him in for 20-22 games this year

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

If after the Elite 7 (or 8?) there was a dropoff to a large group of players rated around the same: i.e. 8-20 very closely rated, then a bolter like Stocker is very plausible.

According to draft watchers and phantom drafters on the internet. SOS never said this. So in his eyes and his teams it may have been quite different.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

He is a real interesting one because much like Rich, Higgins and SPP in the past you would imagine he already has the AFL body so there is not much development left for him their and should be right to go in that respect. It's seems it's purely running ability that he needs to work on, which without knowing his training regime this year is really hard to know how much room for improvement there is. You would expect being a "full time footballer" this year though it would be of some concern.
Good kicks though can always seem to find a spot somewhere, maybe he can be our Stewy Dew.

 

[Juddernaut08]

For his year level, he was taken top 20 in the draft that’s a fact now. He also won a Morrish medal rating him the best in that league for the year (maybe others missed games which would have made a difference... I acknowledge that). That’s an incredible achievement, he must be able to run.
Journalists/colluminst have to write something to sell papers... lock him in for 20-22 games this year

I hope you are right - he can't be any worse than Rayner's aerobic capacity.

 

[Mezzoculo]

The rating him at 6 does seem questionable in my eyes. Could be true, could be Carlton talk to deflect negativity.

Is Stocker an overager given he said he finished school a year earlier than Walsh? If yes, even more a reason 6 would be odd.

He skipped Grade 4 when his family returned to Australia from their stint OS.

 

[onesilop]

In saying we rated him top 6 we dont have the context of what the rating system was I.e the might have prioritised mid/forwards so taking out talls

the 6 could be something like

Walsh
Rankine
Rozee
Smith
Blakey
Stocker

 

[HARKER]

For his year level, he was taken top 20 in the draft that’s a fact now. He also won a Morrish medal rating him the best in that league for the year (maybe others missed games which would have made a difference... I acknowledge that). That’s an incredible achievement, he must be able to run.
Journalists/colluminst have to write something to sell papers... lock him in for 20-22 games this year

Don't setting out to diminish the achievement of taking out the Morrish Medal, but Nick Graham won it 6 years ago.

It just worries me to hear he's apparently a poor runner.
It worries me less if it is 'fixable' but if not, there isn't a place on the ground we'll be able to hide him.

 

[Arr0w]

Don't setting out to diminish the achievement of taking out the Morrish Medal, but Nick Graham won it 6 years ago.

It just worries me to hear he's apparently a poor runner.
It worries me less if it is 'fixable' but if not, there isn't a place on the ground we'll be able to hide him.

I don't believe he is a poor runner, just needs to lift his pace, between stoppages.

 

[La Dispute]

Also have to factor in we were committed to taking an outside mid in Walsh at 1, which lessened to need for one at our next selection. There might have been a few outside mids we would have considered, but our rankings would partly reflect our need for another inside mid, which would have dropped a few more highly fancied prospects down the order. We might have also have Stocker higher than say the King brothers, Thomas, Jones, Clark et al - types of players we have covered. Blakey and RDC are similar stylistically to Setterfield, Cripps and Kennedy.

I think the Parker comparison is quite a good one. Stocker is a high floor type, which tricks recruiters into thinking his ceiling is lower than it is, but he ends up being an inspired selection. Fingers crossed anyway.

 

[Macca43]

Don't setting out to diminish the achievement of taking out the Morrish Medal, but Nick Graham won it 6 years ago.

It just worries me to hear he's apparently a poor runner.
It worries me less if it is 'fixable' but if not, there isn't a place on the ground we'll be able to hide him.

Cam Raynor was a worse runner last year and Clayton Oliver had questions over his running capacity (he ran a 10.45 3km time trial in his combine year 1 min 30 seconds slower than the best Josh Schoenfeld). and then there is this;

"WEAKNESSES
Cripps is not a big runner, and only managed 13.2 in the beep test at this month's NAB AFL Draft Combine."

Running capacity is one of the easiest things to fix with sheer effort and the fact he was already working on this flaw prior to being drafted, comes across as an incredibly professional young man and now has access to Russell I have no concerns about Stocker's running ability going forward.

 

[Neadsy83]

That's not good to hear and I now have visions of DVR struggling to keep up with the slowest running group, partnering Jones & Wood.
As a mid, if you can't run, you can't play.

Just with that snippet of info, I doubt Stocker will see any AFL action next year.

I read that he has improved his 2km to under 7 minutes, which isn't too bad for a guy who already weighs 83-85 kg. No extra size required, it's all running improvement.

After coming back from his broken jaw he averaged 25 touches which was better than the 19 before hand.

He will only get better from here and if he can't play as permanent mid it's not the end of the world as he will start on the interchange and be asked to rotate through the fwd line.

 

[Monkey King]

It’s so interesting reading that article, that stocker may have slipped to pick 25ish had we not picked him, yet he had him at 6.

I think the Tigers might’ve taken him with their first pick, but I’m sure now they’d just prefer to say RCD was their man and they rated him higher than the pick they took him with.

 

[Jeremias]

Isn't it amazing how quickly opinions can change on the back of one comment?

Stocker looks a great prospect, yet it's mentioned he's not a great runner, and all of a sudden we're concerned.

Come on now. Every draftee has weaknesses, and running and endurance can both be worked on and improved considerably.

Reckon there are plenty who have made it big at AFL level despite entering as not the best runners.

 

[Juddernaut08]

Cam Raynor was a worse runner last year and Clayton Oliver had questions over his running capacity (he ran a 10.45 3km time trial in his combine year 1 min 30 seconds slower than the best Josh Schoenfeld). and then there is this;

"WEAKNESSES
Cripps is not a big runner, and only managed 13.2 in the beep test at this month's NAB AFL Draft Combine."

Running capacity is one of the easiest things to fix with sheer effort and the fact he was already working on this flaw prior to being drafted, comes across as an incredibly professional young man and now has access to Russell I have no concerns about Stocker's running ability going forward.

hahaha that is unbelievable - oh Crippa, how far he's come. Get Stocker Juddy or Crippa's running coach and he'll be good to go.

p.s. since when is 13.2 considered bad - that's better than my peak.

 

[teagueyubeauty]

It’s simples really, he idolises Judd and no doubt admired Cripps from afar...he’s been hit between the eyes about his deficiencies and will be guided by the above 2 and the coaching/fitness panel to get the best out of himself.

His strengths won’t get him to 100 games alone and he recognises that. It’s actually a blessing Richmond pointed it out as he himself said he’s working hard to iron the deficiency out once he was put on the spot and asked the hard questions.

I just wish we didn’t hear the “ we rated him in the top 8” bullshit. It’s a number at a point in time date, means absolutely 2 bits of f all once you get into an AFL system.

Besides elite running ability is 90% above the shoulders and 10% putting the extra work in, urging your body to go again when it’s saying it can’t is pure mental strength and character. He’s already showing the character that will help him along the journey

 

[Blue and Silver]

Cripps is still a bad runner, by times.

But he plays whole games out no trouble.

Because his tank is huge but his top speed is low.

Stocker a different type, needs to be build for repeat efforts

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

 

[MITSUHIRATO]

I hope I'm not talking of turn and this may be too much information for lots of readers on here, however my day to day profession involves the analysis, extrapolation and subsequent management of performance data for young athletes (with a particular focus on those that have a genetic ACE I/D polymorphism and the resulting influence on their athletic performance under optimal training environments). I’m currently doing this work for a PAC 12 College in the US looking at the heritability (be that aerobic, body morphology, muscular power/strength) within athletes – notably basketballers and American football players.

I've had a quick scan at Liam's VO2max scores (provided to me by Tom Morris) that he completed in April at the VIS and I don't think his endurance is as bleak as people are making it out to be. He still tested in the above average range for his age group and his somatotype. Looking at his body type and running gait I don't beleive he will ever be within the top range for his age group (>60) but Im sure under Russells system he can build up and run out whole games.