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Delisted 13. Liam Stocker

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Kernafides said:
So we recruited Stocker to become a defender you reckon??? Fair enough
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He was drafted as a midfielder, but in light of new information, observing him on the track and re-thinking our needs (keeping in mind Docherty is out for another year, there’s some uncertainty surrounding Williamson, Daisy and Simmo aren’t far away from retirement, Schumacher is a late draft pick, and we’re currently piloting Garlett as a rebounding defender) it might be far more beneficial for the club and for Stocker to develop him at half-back.

We’re currently stacked for inside mids, and getting close with outside mids (LOB on the fringes is evidence of this), and the turnaround has been reasonably quick.

Better to start now and get him up to speed when we’re cycling some of these older players out, and we’ve roughly cemented our midfield. I suspect LOB will eventually be played off half-back, if not spend a bit of time there each game. Players have to be flexible and able to rotate through positions.
 
Other clubs may have been successful...but name one of our kids who played back and then became a quality mid (outside of ratten and kouta) I have seen more examples of us playing a kid as a tagger in the ones after being a ball magnet in the 2's (and then failing to come on) or drafting forwards and then playing them as defenders to learn the game (and then failing to come on)
 
Kernafides said:
Other clubs may have been successful...but name one of our kids who played back and then became a quality mid (outside of ratten and kouta) I have seen more examples of us playing a kid as a tagger in the ones after being a ball magnet in the 2's (and then failing to come on) or drafting forwards and then playing them as defenders to learn the game (and then failing to come on)
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Maybe just take a beat on the whole "we've screwed it up in the past" thing.

There's a whole new coaching panel at the club, and a new fitness boss considered at the forefront of his field.

We've played Fisher and SPS forward while they developed the skills, frame and tank to play serious midfield minutes. Cripps has been used forward more and more because of his size and strength, and it's something he has WANTED to develop. Setterfield and Kennedy were both used in the forward 50 at GWS as part of their development.

We've made, in my view, some errors in judgement with moving Weitering forward for a spell, and using Polson as a small pressure forward, but those decisions were needs-based rather than because we had the luxury of developing said player in a new role in the reserves.

If we want to become a top tier club again - we need to stop using past failures as a reason not to try and do those things better.
 

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Kernafides said:
Other clubs may have been successful...but name one of our kids who played back and then became a quality mid (outside of ratten and kouta) I have seen more examples of us playing a kid as a tagger in the ones after being a ball magnet in the 2's (and then failing to come on) or drafting forwards and then playing them as defenders to learn the game (and then failing to come on)
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You see, I do agree with the history and accept it as a warning for the future, but Stocker will not be playing back because he can't 'midfield'
We do also have to accept that Stocker may not see too much senior action this year also. This is not a bad thing, as it may indicate that Setterfield, Dow, Walsh and co have come on quicker than may have thought to have done so.

Let's see things play out a little before becoming concerned.
I raised the issue of Stocker yesterday just as a point of discussion rather than imparting a wild prediction.
Actually feel pretty good about him even if RCD does play more games this year. Let's see.
 
Kernafides said:
Other clubs may have been successful...but name one of our kids who played back and then became a quality mid (outside of ratten and kouta) I have seen more examples of us playing a kid as a tagger in the ones after being a ball magnet in the 2's (and then failing to come on) or drafting forwards and then playing them as defenders to learn the game (and then failing to come on)
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Can't have it both ways. Ratten and kouta are two that show its possible. The club did it to Gibbs too, he's a damn fine midfielder, if a little soft, thats nothing to do with him playing off the half back for a while.

It's so common practice all over the comp while young guys build their tanks its bizarre you've got an issue with it. It is so damn common to either start at half forward or half back before moving into the middle... Mcgrath, Mills, petracca, de Goey, ablett, gibbs, heeney, dev Smith, Whitfield, Kelly (yes he played off half back with stints in the middle for his first couple seasons), yeo etc etc
 
Just funny.

Stocker is a two way mid already. Walsh didnt need to learn team defence and Stocker is more defence oriented. I agree that perhaps we don't need in your face type players in the coalface but he can kick goals on both feet and no idea why we would want him to play back pocket TBH. I'll insta-replace Polsen with Stocker in the forward pocket. But anyway curious how this all turns out, like the idea of kids developing in the VFL for a year or two though always have been unless they are elite and this one is banging down the door..
 
pinot said:
Just funny.

Stocker is a two way mid already. Walsh didnt need to learn team defence and Stocker is more defence oriented. I agree that perhaps we don't need in your face type players in the coalface but he can kick goals on both feet and no idea why we would want him to play back pocket TBH. I'll insta-replace Polsen with Stocker in the forward pocket. But anyway curious how this all turns out, like the idea of kids developing in the VFL for a year or two though always have been unless they are elite and this one is banging down the door..
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Wouldn't call Stocker a 2 way mid already, that's what Walsh is currently.
 
pinot said:
Just funny.

Stocker is a two way mid already. Walsh didnt need to learn team defence and Stocker is more defence oriented. I agree that perhaps we don't need in your face type players in the coalface but he can kick goals on both feet and no idea why we would want him to play back pocket TBH. I'll insta-replace Polsen with Stocker in the forward pocket. But anyway curious how this all turns out, like the idea of kids developing in the VFL for a year or two though always have been unless they are elite and this one is banging down the door..
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Where have you pulled that from? Stockers fitness isn't close to being good enough to be considered an afl level two way midfielder. Hence all the extra running he's doing and the much media covered interview with Richmond...
 
pinot said:
Just funny.

Stocker is a two way mid already. Walsh didnt need to learn team defence and Stocker is more defence oriented. I agree that perhaps we don't need in your face type players in the coalface but he can kick goals on both feet and no idea why we would want him to play back pocket TBH. I'll insta-replace Polsen with Stocker in the forward pocket. But anyway curious how this all turns out, like the idea of kids developing in the VFL for a year or two though always have been unless they are elite and this one is banging down the door..
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Stocker is banging down the door after a decent start and then fadeaway performance in a VFL practice match...?

:think:
 
SkyhorseTamer said:
Where have you pulled that from? Stockers fitness isn't close to being good enough to be considered an afl level two way midfielder. Hence all the extra running he's doing and the much media covered interview with Richmond...
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I don't see such a problem with his aerobic capacity it's where it should be for a first year player. This kid wins his own ball, tackles hard and kicks goals this is a two way mid.
 
pinot said:
I don't see such a problem with his aerobic capacity it's where it should be for a first year player. This kid wins his own ball, tackles hard and kicks goals this is a two way mid.
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Your definition of two way mid is wrong then. A two way mid involves being fit enough to run two ways. He isn't. Debate ends there. We all know he's got the other attributes. He doesn't have what it requires to be a two way midfielder, yet. It's that simple. He's not fit enough, yet.
 

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pinot said:
Just funny.

Stocker is a two way mid already. Walsh didnt need to learn team defence and Stocker is more defence oriented. I agree that perhaps we don't need in your face type players in the coalface but he can kick goals on both feet and no idea why we would want him to play back pocket TBH. I'll insta-replace Polsen with Stocker in the forward pocket. But anyway curious how this all turns out, like the idea of kids developing in the VFL for a year or two though always have been unless they are elite and this one is banging down the door..
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I'll also add that I don't think Polson will be playing forward pocket come round one. At least, not in the seniors.

Cuningham, Curnow, Fasolo
Gibbons, McKay, McGovern

I'm not giving Stocker a starting spot ahead of any of those guys.
 
SkyhorseTamer said:
Your definition of two way mid is wrong then. A two way mid involves being fit enough to run two ways. He isn't. Debate ends there. We all know he's got the other attributes. He doesn't have what it requires to be a two way midfielder, yet. It's that simple. He's not fit enough, yet.
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He is a two way mid - end of debate thats how SOS ranked him in the top 10.

What Bolton does to him is Bolton's business.
 
SkyhorseTamer said:
Can't have it both ways. Ratten and kouta are two that show its possible. The club did it to Gibbs too, he's a damn fine midfielder, if a little soft, thats nothing to do with him playing off the half back for a while.

It's so common practice all over the comp while young guys build their tanks its bizarre you've got an issue with it. It is so damn common to either start at half forward or half back before moving into the middle... Mcgrath, Mills, petracca, de Goey, ablett, gibbs, heeney, dev Smith, Whitfield, Kelly (yes he played off half back with stints in the middle for his first couple seasons), yeo etc etc
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I'm talking about us not other clubs...I think 3 examples in the last 20 odd years kind of illustrates my point ;p
 
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Kernafides said:
I think 3 examples in the last 20 odd years kind of illustrates my point ;p
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Umm, guess you glossed over my post above so I’ll say it again.

We’ve spent the best part of 20 years picking hbf’s to be groomed as mids, that’s the big big difference and hole in your argument.

What drafted out and out mids in the junior ranks have we stuffed up by playing them in the backline in the last 20 years?
 
Kernafides said:
I'm talking about us not other clubs...I think 3 examples in the last 20 odd years kind of illustrates my point ;p
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If we haven't put together a program that can develop players as well as other clubs do, we're going to fall apart in a few years.

I reckon we have, so focusing on how different coaches at Carlton screwed up in the last 20 years isn't particularly relevant.

New Carlton, professional Carlton.
 

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Blue__Balls said:
If we haven't put together a program that can develop players as well as other clubs do, we're going to fall apart in a few years.

I reckon we have, so focusing on how different coaches at Carlton screwed up in the last 20 years isn't particularly relevant.

New Carlton, professional Carlton.
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Well I hope the new regime will be different...perhaps our failure to develop was down to the old regime...I was lucky enough to be in our coaches box a few times...we used to have a stat on the number of blocks we laid in the middle for Judd....no wonder mids couldn't develop when we tracked the number of times Judd was protected...just crazy and goes to our old old messiah philosophies
 
I suspect young Liam will soon be regretting his (refreshing) public honesty regarding his weaknesses, and sharing the Richmond interview story etc. He could transform himself into Ed Curnow from here, and yet those within this 'narrative'-driven AFL bubble will still forever harp on about it.

Blown massively out of proportion in my opinion, including (especially?) here.
 
pinot said:
He is a two way mid - end of debate thats how SOS ranked him in the top 10.

What Bolton does to him is Bolton's business.
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Wth... He has the potential to be one. His fitness needs working on. When he can run out a game at half back we can start talking about him moving into the middle and playing ones. But your ascertion that he's knocking the door down AS A two way mid already is completely bonkers.

We aren't arguing his skill set or why he was taken high and it has nothing to do with Bolton, so weaving in anti Bolton stuff can be left for a different time. I'm not having a bar of it because if anyone is designing his fitness program and where he should play it's Andrew Russell.
 

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