15.4%: Why North should receive expansion-style concessions

[Rich01]

their women are almost unbeatable so maybe they should just start listening to the staff in their women's programme on how to build a list to contend rather than worry about QLD style advantages.

What they’ve done with their women’s program is astounding.

Fantastic development, recruiting and built a culture where players from other clubs want to go there.

They’ve obviously made this a focus and it’s paid off. Obviously moreso than other clubs.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

North shouldn't be in the league.

An interstate club blow-in fan telling us what Vic clubs should stay and go.

 

[1990crow]

An interstate club blow-in fan telling us what Vic clubs should stay and go.

Yes.. it's called the AFL now. Not the VFL.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Yes.. it's called the AFL now. Not the VFL.

That doesn't mean you're right.
NM have done more for the league than your club ever will.

The relocation / merger / relegation stuff is just horseshit. It's not going to happen and pointless even talking about it. It's the stuff of fantasists.

Usually from non-vic club fans with no respect for the clubs of the league they willingly joined.
Just because you're in our comp does not mean your say matters. Especially on topics like this.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

AFL just need to change the draft so that the first 20 picks go to the sides that do not make finals, they could make it a lottery where bottom sides get weighted advantage like they do in NBA.

Even more tanking? Yeah no thanks that’s what the afl don’t want. Side will tank to get in the lottery if they can’t win

 

[jwikked]

The relocation / merger / relegation stuff is just horseshit. It's not going to happen and pointless even talking about it. It's the stuff of fantasists.

The only ones who should be even entertained, is when they put their team up for relocation or being folded.

They never do - it's always someone elses team getting destroyed. It's pathetic stuff.

 

[Dinkers]

So far they've had 4 extra first round picks come their way I'm aware of. The 3 the AFL handed them and the one that got generated when they lost McKay.

Consider also the top 6 picks in this years draft
Duursma
Uwland (academy)
Dean (father son)
CDT (Compensation)
Patterson (academy)
Annable (academy)

How compromised is that? You are suggesting add to it and making it worse.

What number were these 3 first rounders, at last count there is 18 teams in the competition.

So I assume we got picks via the AFL between 1-18, you can call them anything you like, but please don't call them first round picks cause they aren't.

As for the OP too late now, we are moving up the ladder, but yes 3 years ago it would have been helpful.

 

[WOFTAMWarrior]

It always comes back to not being able to trade players without consent.

How can North improve when their best players get pinched (JHF) and they can’t attract top talent without paying huge overs. A player would take a pay cut to play for Geelong/Collingwood etc but North can’t even get interest without paying huge overs (and it never gets that far).

It’s not really an even salary cap in its current state where you can only get players that say they want to play for you, and who is going to choose a small, losing team, when there’s 9 other teams in the state to choose.

The trading and power needs to be looked at for sure. A player shouldn’t be able to say they only want to go to a particular club when the club can get a better benefit. Using North they’d no doubt prefer a talented player traded to their club and giving up picks instead of having a team year after year made up of kids.

But we don’t want it like the USA where you could be playing sport in Baltimore and the next day you’re off to Texas without touching a ball. If players want to return home to Victoria etc than the get traded to a Club within that State. Too many times we have see players move with zero gain to the club they’ve left.

 

[Ocha905]

I actually have no idea what you're talking about here.

They're just a sad sack that wants to feel superior to others by any means, including the lamest metrics. "oUr ClUb HaS mOaR sUpPoRtErS tHaN yOuRs!!!" I mean congratulations

 

[LeBronco]

The only ones who should be even entertained, is when they put their team up for relocation or being folded.

They never do - it's always someone elses team getting destroyed. It's pathetic stuff.

I can't understand why anyone would want another club to fold, merge or relocate after seeing what Fitzroy supporters had to endure.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Even more tanking? Yeah no thanks that’s what the afl don’t want. Side will tank to get in the lottery if they can’t win

I fail to believe any club is going to tank to not play finals just so they can get a lottery pick.

 

[brutus76]

Move them to New Zealand if they want concessions

 

[SSSSSS]

This is the first North draft where they've picked according to list needs instead of slamming midfielders as best pick available (although you could argue Dovaston was probably best pick available in any case).

They've got plenty of first rounders but all similar types (midfielders). Neglected picks at either end of the ground, especially KPP.

I'm hoping they've finally turned a corner.

There's enough talent there. The part they need to figure out is putting it all together. It's been a developmental graveyard since Brad took over.

 

[Spirit Level]

That doesn't mean you're right.
NM have done more for the league than your club ever will.

Usually from non-vic club fans with no respect for the clubs of the league they willingly joined.
Just because you're in our comp does not mean your say matters. Especially on topics like this.

Hahaha what a load of shit.

Your league wouldn't even exist anymore if clubs like Adelaide and West Coast didn't bring the cash in the 90s.

Congrats for supporting a club that was part of a bush league eons ago. Why the f**k should non-victorian supporters respect a basket case of a club when victorians cant respect what the Western clubs did for football.

 

[Makeshift Park]

They've got plenty of first rounders but all similar types (midfielders). Neglected picks at either end of the ground, especially KPP.

Certainly true for the Shaw-Noble period, which everyone rightfully regards as an unmitigated disaster. But, at least since 2023, your observation hasn’t really been true.

Dawson, Goad and Whitlock were all first round picks.

Hardeman too, if we’re counting gen defenders.

Then as you say, Dovaston this year, not to mention Thredgold as the first pick of the second round.

Time will tell how many of these afl players have quality careers, but at the very least list balance has been much better managed in the past few seasons.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Why the f**k should non-victorian supporters respect a basket case of a club when victorians cant respect what the Western clubs did for football.

Hahaha what a load of shit.

Your league wouldn't even exist anymore if clubs like Adelaide and West Coast didn't bring the cash in the 90s.

What is a load of shit is fans of the afterthought 6 (WA, SA, GCS, GWS) casting judgments over the validity of Vic clubs being in the league. What you think on the matter doesn't mean squat.

The disrespect NM, St.K and WB get from johnny come lately fans is outrageous. So much disrespect of history from those who have very little.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

I fail to believe any club is going to tank to not play finals just so they can get a lottery pick.

If it gets you a shot at pick 1 they will you ain’t winning from 8th onwards.

 

[windyhill]

North land big fish.

 

[SSSSSS]

Certainly true for the Shaw-Noble period, which everyone rightfully regards as an unmitigated disaster. But, at least since 2023, your observation hasn’t really been true.

Dawson, Goad and Whitlock were all first round picks.

Hardeman too, if we’re counting gen defenders.

Then as you say, Dovaston this year, not to mention Thredgold as the first pick of the second round.

Time will tell how many of these afl players have quality careers, but at the very least list balance has been much better managed in the past few seasons.

Duursma > Wiz/Curtin was at the time and still is a noodle scratcher. I'd say on most draft boards Duursma would have edged the two but I don't think there was enough separating from Wiz/Curtin to not go for a player that fit your needs.

You've got a glut of mid sized tweener forwards in Curtis/Zuurhaar/George (if he can get on the park). Screaming for a classy small or a gun KPP who can play both ends of the ground. Even if you picked Duursma for the scope that he could play in the middle it's still a baffling decision considering the logjam of first round midfielders picked ahead of him.

Tauru would have been a reach at #2 but surely splitting #2 (in a very even draft) rather than getting another midfielder in FOS would have been sensible. Ended up having to force yourself into a really questionable trade to grab Whitlock.

 

[SSSSSS]

North land big fish.

Something something glass houses.

 

[Makeshift Park]

Duursma > Wiz/Curtin was at the time and still is a noodle scratcher. I'd say on most draft boards Duursma would have edged the two but I don't think there was enough separating from Wiz/Curtin to not go for a player that fit your needs.

TBH I was gunning for one of the latter that draft but I get the theoretical basis that Duursma's last season made him the preferred from a "best available" perspective. Hopefully his shoulder can finally sort itself out so he can make a fist of a decent AFL career. Maybe, later this year he'll take Darling's spot in the best 23, if Trembath can hold down the 2nd KPF position?

I'm also not sure Watson would have taken off at North the way they have at the Hawks. Its pretty easy for small forwards to become invisible in games where you're getting convincingly beaten out of the centre. Ironically it took Curtin a stint on the wing to really find his place in the Crows, so I'm not convinced he would've been the answer to our KPP deficiencies that draft.

Tauru would have been a reach at #2 but surely splitting #2 (in a very even draft) rather than getting another midfielder in FOS would have been sensible.

Man I wanted this kid so bad. But again - does he ever become a bonafide one-on-one KPP? Or "merely" an exciting intercepting type, of which we already have Comben and Dawson? Besides, I reckon FOS is quietly becoming a deadset jet in defence, so its hard to begrudge the decision too much.

 

[SSSSSS]

TBH I was gunning for one of the latter that draft but I get the theoretical basis that Duursma's last season made him the preferred from a "best available" perspective. Hopefully his shoulder can finally sort itself out so he can make a fist of a decent AFL career. Maybe, later this year he'll take Darling's spot in the best 23, if Trembath can hold down the 2nd KPF position?

I'm also not sure Watson would have taken off at North the way they have at the Hawks. Its pretty easy for small forwards to become invisible in games where you're getting convincingly beaten out of the centre. Ironically it took Curtin a stint on the wing to really find his place in the Crows, so I'm not convinced he would've been the answer to our KPP deficiencies that draft.


Man I wanted this kid so bad. But again - does he ever become a bonafide one-on-one KPP? Or "merely" an exciting intercepting type, of which we already have Comben and Dawson? Besides, I reckon FOS is quietly becoming a deadset jet in defence, so its hard to begrudge the decision too much.

I like FOS and he was the clear standout at pick #2. I think he's a Bartel clone.

I do think that your midfield for the longest time has had too many Chiefs. Guys who came in the system having been used to the primary ball winner/receive role.

Need a genuine defensive mid to balance it out.

 

[windyhill]

Something something glass houses.

Jonathan Patton likes this.

 

[Makeshift Park]

Need a genuine defensive mid to balance it out.

In an ideal world I guess that'll become FOS. Or as a longer shot, Urquhart.

If not, hopefully we can scrap our way to "comfortably midtier" status so we have a decent chance to get the next version of Dunkley or Hewett on the trade marketplace.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

During the draft I've been thinking about concessions / priority picks. Like (I suspect) most people, I'm pretty much against them, and find the fact the West Coast have been handed them absolutely absurd.

What is more absurd, however, is the lack of concessions given to North. They have zero draft concessions this year (admittedly after having some in recent years). This led me down a bit of a path to see if North's performances are actually not as bad as I'm thinking.

And I was wrong... they're much, much worse.

The state of North is an enormous issue for the league, by far the #1 issue I think.

Over the past six years, North has won 20/130 games. That's a 15.4% win record.

How does that stack up? Well when people talk about teams going poorly, you'll inevitably hear "the worst team since Fitzroy". Or even comparisons to expansion clubs... the Bad New Bears, or Gold Coast and GWS when they were more-or-less Under 18 teams playing in the AFL. But none of these "bad" teams have been anything like North Melbourne.

In the entire history of the VFL / AFL - 129 season going back to 1897 - there is only FOUR teams that have ever had a worse win-rate over a comparable six-year period

1. St Kilda 1897 - 1902
2.0% (2/99)
St Kilda were the last side admitted to the VFL and were woefully unprepared to compete. They lost their first 48 games and over their first six seasons, won just two games.

2. North Melbourne 1926-1931
9.3% (10/108)
After a relatively successful first year in the league in 1925, North went through a very tough run. High player turnover and the effects of the Great Depression hit the club hard over an extended period

3. Fitzroy 1963 - 1968
12.7% (14/110)
Fitzroy in the 60s were a mess, with appalling conditions at Brunswick St before being homeless for a period - making it nigh-on impossible for them to recruit.

4. St Kilda 1943 - 1948
15.2% (16/105)
The period known as "the lean years" in St Kilda history, when they were forced out of their home ground as the Junction Oval was commandeered by government for the war effort.

5. North Melbourne 2020 - 2025
15.4% (20/130)

You can forget all the talk about expansion teams, Fitzroy, the Bears and other disastrous teams. North are worse than all of them by a stretch, and the worst performed club in 60 years... since well back before equalisation measures were introduced.

So what does it mean? I reckon this shows that North aren't just your average team going through a poor run. This is an all-time disaster and absolutely unprecedented in anything approaching modern, equalised footy.

Personally I'd be all for North being given some significant concessions in terms of draft and salary cap. Expansion clubs get them, and North are clearly in a worse spot. I've got no probably with teams having lean spells, but this has gone beyond that. Having one club so absolutely uncompetitive over such a long period affects the whole league and the money coming in from TV for all.

Perhaps this is the time to look at it. The league went through two lots of concessions at once for Gold Coast and GWS, perhaps North and Tassie could get them at the same time too.

And yes I'm well aware there'll be all the same nuffy calls about "fold them!", "relocate them!"... which is pointless, that's not going to happen, the league and the TV deal are predicated on the current number of teams so they're not going anywhere - they're required to bring the TV money in.

They just make terrible choices on and off field. That doesn’t deserve anything. The club has also refused to relocate which was the right financial decision and dug its heels in. It’s paying the price for its arrogance.

Also a washed up coach on Clarkson being paid what he is.. beyond a joke. Should be sacked if he continues to fail this season.