Not worth that , He cant defend against Hawkins , Tex or KIng
The defence leaks with him apparnetly
Player Watch #17: Daniel Rioli - 5 more years! (Contracted until 2027)
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The defence leaks with him apparnetly
I haven’t said he will make the team or squad….but you have said he is nowhere near it. So you alone of all Richmond supporters are looking forward with hope to Rioli not being selected in the AA squad. Your wording gives you away somewhat.
No, it just means i think he is nowhere near it.
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Was he good yesterday?
I reckon by end of year we get a good idea where he sits in our pecking order
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If broad is going need to keep Daniel
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Why would Broad be going?
I like a person who sticks to their guns when they are wrong.
Usually means they are fools to double down knowing they are wrong
Noidnadroj
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The thing Rioli has which is rare for indigenous players is a huge tank. You can see it with his repeat sprint efforts and rebound running at top speed. As he continues to develop he’ll be a massive weapon as he’s not missing any attributes required to be an outstanding half back.
As he gains more confidence to attack I can see him kicking at least a few goals a season as well.
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I like a person who sticks to their guns when they are wrong.
Let's just see how he goes against Geelong, Sydney, Carlton & Port. 3 experienced coaches & 3 very good teams. I've bascially said this 100 times now - i just don't rate him running uncontested against squib teams as proof he is elite. I want to see him & the defence look good against good teams & good coaches who care about winning, making finals etc
That’s fair enough it is how all players should be judged. Whether they can hold their own against the best teams and especially on the biggest occasions.
So far he has played against 4 teams who I think are top 9 calibre, Saints, Blues, Demons, Bulldogs.
He was largely quiet v the Blues in rd 1, I would say his least productive match for the season, but did throw 6 score involvements in there, so that is high for his role.
I would say he had a decent game v the Saints. 7 contested possessions wasn’t too bad there. 20 disposals, all of them effective is really good. 3 tackles and a goal assist, he’d be entitled to be happy with that display I think.
Against the Demons he kicked a goal amongst 17 disposals, 16 of which were effective. Demons do allow defenders some latitude at times as they flood back. He kept Pickett quiet. I would say he had a reasonable game here without being anything to write home about.
Against the Dogs he had 19 effective disposals amongst 25 disposals. 5 score involvements. In this match 4 kick ins counted as disposals. In each of the other matches against top 9 teams he had only 1 kick in.
I don’t think he has shot the lights out against these teams but he has performed fine against them. So let’s see if teams start putting work into him and how that translates. His direct opponents certainly haven’t been noticeably damaging, or I am sure you would have been all over it.
What was your beef with him playing in the backline again?
Oh and don’t worry, if he gets coaches votes this week I will be the first to commiserate with you, we will all get around you and try to get you back up and running, that is what Richmond board mates are for.
That’s fair enough it is how all players should be judged. Whether they can hold their own against the best teams and especially on the biggest occasions.
So far he has played against 4 teams who I think are top 9 calibre, Saints, Blues, Demons, Bulldogs.
He was largely quiet v the Blues in rd 1, I would say his least productive match for the season, but did throw 6 score involvements in there, so that is high for his role.
I would say he had a decent game v the Saints. 7 contested possessions wasn’t too bad there. 20 disposals, all of them effective is really good. 3 tackles and a goal assist, he’d be entitled to be happy with that display I think.
Against the Demons he kicked a goal amongst 17 disposals, 16 of which were effective. Demons do allow defenders some latitude at times as they flood back. He kept Pickett quiet. I would say he had a reasonable game here without being anything to write home about.
Against the Dogs he had 19 effective disposals amongst 25 disposals. 5 score involvements. In this match 4 kick ins counted as disposals. In each of the other matches against top 9 teams he had only 1 kick in.
I don’t think he has shot the lights out against these teams but he has performed fine against them. So let’s see if teams start putting work into him and how that translates. His direct opponents certainly haven’t been noticeably damaging, or I am sure you would have been all over it.
What was your beef with him playing in the backline again?
Oh and don’t worry, if he gets coaches votes this week I will be the first to commiserate with you, we will all get around you and try to get you back up and running, that is what Richmond board mates are for.
There was no real beef. I wanted to see him get a run back up forward again, as i felt he would link up well with MRJ, Bolton, Dusty & Castagna - I think adding him back into a role he HAS been very good at (before a rut, which affected all our forwards) could make our forwardline back to elite level. I think a forwardline with those guys would be liquid, it would flow forward and pressure at elite levels.
As much as his run down back has been good, we have seen a record scoring shots against us. I like backlines that stop scoring shots. Our backline was the benchmark for our success & it has become our weakness. Our backline was always system based & that system appeared to be falling down badly since he was introduced into it. Originally his spot in the backline was at the cost of Baker, who i prefer due to defensive work and aggression. I basically wanted to see the backline restored to Balta, Grimes, Vloss, Broad, Short, Baker, Gibcus + Mansell-Tarrant - which is effectively a combination we know works as a system. His best form has been against teams that are squibs, or lack defensive grind/accountability.
I only really had beef with people saying he would be AA or better than Houli, as that was batshit crazy. Guy has played about 10 decent games down back and comparing him to historically great premiership defender who easily could have won 2 normies was ridiculous.
Effectively. i think he has done a good job down back, but i wonder if the cost defensively has hurt us more than we realise & also that we may be building a system that can be exploited by better teasm & coaches once finals hit.
I much prefer running backs that can be strong defensive opponents too - like Andrew McKay or Bachar Houli.
Oooooooohhhhhkay. So when Houli first played in the backline for us we instantly gelled and were near impossible to score against, right?
Well, not exactly. In Houli’s first year, 2011, only 1st year Suns and disaster zone Port Adelaide had more score against them.
So why is Rioli responsible for 8 teams having less scored against them than Richmond in 2022, but Houli wasn’t responsible for 14 teams having less scored against them than Richmond in his first full season in our defence in 2011?
Or do we maybe go to 2014, Houli’s 8th year in the system when we were a fringe 8 team? Rioli is now in his 7th season and we look a fringe 8 team. Fair comparison. In 2014 after 10 rounds, 11 teams had less scored against them than Richmond did. Why is Houli, who played all of those 10 games not responsible for that but Rioli’s presence in our backline is somehow responsible for a disaster that is far less bad?
I don’t get it.
sante
Emu
You have to remember he’s still new to the role. Not sure why you expect him to be perfect at it when he’s still adjusting and learning about how our backline operates etc.
Oooooooohhhhhkay. So when Houli first played in the backline for us we instantly gelled and were near impossible to score against, right?
Well, not exactly. In Houli’s first year, 2011, only 1st year Suns and disaster zone Port Adelaide had more score against them.
So why is Rioli responsible for 8 teams having less scored against them than Richmond in 2022, but Houli wasn’t responsible for 14 teams having less scored against them than Richmond in his first full season in our defence in 2011?
Or do we maybe go to 2014, Houli’s 8th year in the system when we were a fringe 8 team? Rioli is now in his 7th season and we look a fringe 8 team. Fair comparison. In 2014 after 10 rounds, 11 teams had less scored against them than Richmond did. Why is Houli, who played all of those 10 games not responsible for that but Rioli’s presence in our backline is somehow responsible for a disaster that is far less bad?
I don’t get it.
No. What i am saying is he had an elite backline in Balta, Short, Baker, Broad, Grimes, Vloss - with young natural defenders like Mansell, Gibcus coming up to be added and groomed
You need to remember when i started this conversation - Balta was playing forward, as well as Baker and it was sucking. Our forward line looked awful & our backline was leaky as F. So, the comments on all this originated from a place where the backline and forward line looked broken. I wanted Balta & Baker down back again & Rioli back up forward & be paired with MRJ as he was not required once those changes hit & I felt they would combine in an electric way. I said this even before MRJ came in and was a story. I also though he linked well with those other forwards etc, but i thought MRJ was the missing piece to unlocking the electric forward running Dan again.
The backline & forwardline has improved alot because we moved Balta & Baker down back - the only variance in what i said is that Short went into the midfield & that allowed Dan & Baker to co-exisit. So my issue with it is not as much as Short has filled a role in the middle well, while Dan has slotted into his place effectively. But, what i do worry about is now having Dan &Baker in the same backline, as they do lack a bit of height and are not overly strong overhead defensively. Houli was a similar height, but very good with spoiling as he appears to have a bigger wingspan. My concern is against a good team & in finals, Rioli will get targeted defensively, and obviously as i trust the backline defensively more i mentioned above, i think this is a safer combination of players to rebuild our defensive system around.
The thing here is, we have never had the chance to see MRJ & Dan play a few games together down forward to see how that looks. It might not work that great, but its worth trying, especially as we have solid backline depth with Short, Baker, Mansell, Vloss, Broad all able to run the ball out, be it less flashy. They are still very effective in doing so.
100% Correct
I remember when Houli first started playing the HB position at Richmond the amount of people screaming for him to be dropped
Soft , Hears footsteps , Cant defend , No leap etc etc etc . But given time he become a champ
Rioli has not even been in that role for 12 months and is getting talked up by every media outlet with former champions including Dunstall , Carey , Riewoldt , Brown etc raving about what a revelation he is and is playing the best football of his career.
Some people that claim to be Richmond supporters should actually pay more attention
Serious question here !!
Do you have any evidence to back this claim up ?
I have spent the last 4 minutes looking for Bachar Houli's wing span and cant find a thing about that
Can you provide a link please
If you want to move the ball dangerously you need piercing run in the transition between defence and attack. Melbourne will use Hunt on a back flank and Langdon on a wing. The Dogs will use Dale and Bailey Smith and in the past Johannisen. Hawks use Jiath. Blues have Saad. Bombers have used Hind that way. There are others around. Our game plan needs piercing overlapping run from players who can kick. Rioli is our best at this I think. If not, he is our second best and Short is our best, but I don’t think Short is as good at cutting through the centre square with the ball at high speed as Rioli. Houli was our best at it, and he was great.
When you get a player looking as good as Rioli currently is in that role, you would want to come up with more compelling reasons than you are giving for moving him. You need 7 backs. Balta Tarrant Grimes, Broad Vlastuin Rioli Baker is fine. Gibcus can cover for at least the first 5 of those. Ralpshsmith for the last 2, and we have Banks, Brown to come through yet. And a certain gentleman by the name of Sydney Stack who could certainly step in at a pinch.
This is why Mansell is being schooled as a small forward. There is absolutely no need whatsoever to even contemplate shifting Rioli. But I can tell you have just about given up on the idea in any event.
If you want to move the ball dangerously you need piercing run in the transition between defence and attack. Melbourne will use Hunt on a back flank and Langdon on a wing. The Dogs will use Dale and Bailey Smith and in the past Johannisen. Hawks use Jiath. Blues have Saad. Bombers have used Hind that way. There are others around. Our game plan needs piercing overlapping run from players who can kick. Rioli is our best at this I think. If not, he is our second best and Short is our best, but I don’t think Short is as good at cutting through the centre square with the ball at high speed as Rioli. Houli was our best at it, and he was great.
When you get a player looking as good as Rioli currently is in that role, you would want to come up with more compelling reasons than you are giving for moving him. You need 7 backs. Balta Tarrant Grimes, Broad Vlastuin Rioli Baker is fine. Gibcus can cover for at least the first 5 of those. Ralpshsmith for the last 2, and we have Banks, Brown to come through yet. And a certain gentleman by the name of Sydney Stack who could certainly step in at a pinch.
This is why Mansell is being schooled as a small forward. There is absolutely no need whatsoever to even contemplate shifting Rioli. But I can tell you have just about given up on the idea in any event.
It's not a matter of me giving up on the idea - i have literally no impact on what happens. It's just my opinion. I like the idea. If i were the coach, I would have tried it in the second half of the Bombers, Eagles & Bombers games, just to see what it looked like. Things like that can help you in a final, a plan b.
For some reason its just not being accepted as being "my opinion" & it needs to be changed. I am unlikely to change it until i see what the alternative looks like.
It's hard for someone to say definitively its a s**t idea as it hasn't been explored yet. The topic can likely be parked for a month, as with better teams coming into the play, we will find out.
If we leak goals and our backline system fails us, I will most definitely still not be on board with the move, no matter how much dash he might provide. Our biggest risk to losing at the moment is the opponent getting on hot runs of goals. we have seen this in the Blues, Saints, Crows losses - literally gave up 7-10 goals in a row or something ridiculous along those lines. until i see proof that wont happen again against good teaams, then i am TBD on Dan. That's all their is to it - i have no settled opinion on him as a back, i just have it as TBD while others have him AA, "better than houli" etc. ITs way too early in his defender career to make a claim like that - surely that is obvious. And also why other teams supporters are not really mentioning him or afraid of him
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I would have no issue giving Daniel Rioli a 5x 550k year contract he is only 25 years old.
You can bet that opposition clubs are going to be in enquiring about him to Ralph Carr.
You can bet that opposition clubs are going to be in enquiring about him to Ralph Carr.
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Wouldn’t be upset at that deal, as we know players in that role can still be extremely effective late into careers especially if they have decent foot iq and ball skills, if this year is his baseline there will still be improvement on the footy iq and experience side of things in the role and learning how to read the game in when it’s the best time to be conservative and when it’s best to use that running power for maximum damage
Rioli has always had class, went missing as a forward, lost the hunger but when he got it he did something with it.
As a half back he is running and overlapping but it is mainly his class and composure that has made the difference. Very few players can run at full tilt and use the ball with class as he is doing. Delidio was another.
He is in full confidence mode so is probably at the peak of his game and of course he will have some off games. I just hope we give him the grace of a few bad games like we do nearly every other player, some a massive amount of grace, and not hang him when that happens. He could play half back for a good while yet.
As a half back he is running and overlapping but it is mainly his class and composure that has made the difference. Very few players can run at full tilt and use the ball with class as he is doing. Delidio was another.
He is in full confidence mode so is probably at the peak of his game and of course he will have some off games. I just hope we give him the grace of a few bad games like we do nearly every other player, some a massive amount of grace, and not hang him when that happens. He could play half back for a good while yet.
sante
Emu
Daniel up forward is done. I remember Dimma mentioning last year when they dropped him that mentally the role had got to Daniel and he wasn’t enjoying his footy. I don’t think we’ll ever see him there again. Not many can play a full career as a small forward, especially the role Dan was given, because it wasn’t about getting the footy and it got stale for him.
Morro
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She is such a pest, so thats fair.
Credit where its due, you are unwavering in your opinion, but not even the most committed to a cause could believe they are right after all the proof you have seen now.
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