2007 list managment

[Wizard]

I no this is very early but i am always looking at ways to upgrade out list. At seasons end what do we as supporters want to see happen with our list?

Delisting:
Webster (a certainty i think)
Copping (has had his 2 years)
Cook (if things dont change soon)
Haines (we hav waited long enough)
Schofield (explains itself)

Trade:
Walker (i think his value to the team id dropping)
Gilmore ???
Dunn ??? (depends on those legs)

Retirments:
probably none but possibly Parker

Ok now to the main point of this thread. What i want to see happen in the off-season this season is trading, not for players though but for early picks. We need to draft one or two good midfielders, thats how we are going tod evelop out midfield not by trading for a big name like always. The quick fix isnt working and it should be stopped. If we can get an early pick young Selwood would be a good pick, maybe Gibbs but we would need a top 3 probably.
How about young Gary Moss and Matthew Virgo, what sort of time do you think they will go in the draft?
We need to develop a midfield and do it via the draft and we need to do it this season before it is to late.

 

[rgauci]

There are some very exciting youngsters that are home grown. These are the following profiles courtesy of Mojo31 (his thread in drafts and trading):

9) Leroy Jetta

Midfielder/forward pocket

176cms and 70kgs
6/7/88
South Fremantle

To say he is quick is an understatement. He is freakishly quick and has some of the best footwork I have ever seen to run around players and make them miss. Makes players look like they are nailed to the ground when he baulks them. Razzle dazzle player who can tend to try and do a bit too much at times. More likely to go for impossible goals rather than pass the ball off. What he does do is take players and break the game open. Very good kick on either side of the body but at his pace he rarely has to kick on the non dominant side.

Very good goal sense and suited to playing in the forward line and getting possessions forward of the centre and making them count.
Hopefully he will round out his game some more this year and develop the defensive side he will need. Learn to be accountable when he is required to be.Would have a question mark on his endurance and whether he will be able to become a full time midfielder in the AFL or a burst player who will do a number of special things but drift in and out of the game.
A wing/rover or a forward pocket. It is hard to know but despite his small size he is able to compete against much bigger players. Shows an ability to run and carry the ball and distribute well and run to all the right places to either win the ball or be an option for someone who does.
You add that to his pace, flair and balance and you have an enticing package. Such a good natural goal kicker who crumbs the ball in the forward line with great instincts and skill.

Played in the U18s Carnival for WA and showed himself to be up to the standard there and was very exciting and stood out. Even though he can be a bit selfish at times it is most likely just trying to impress at the U18s and also in the WAFL under coaches instructions as from all reports he is a very modest and humble player off the field.
He looks like he will have the ball winning abilities to become a midfielder if he can develop the tank needed. The height and size are the concerns in the future along with his endurance ability.

Instinctive player who is very talented and if he continues his development should go inside the top 10.

15) Clayton Collard

Midfielder

181cms and 76kgs.
4/12/88
South Fremantle

An aboriginal player from Western Australia who is a team mate of Leroy Jetta. Has good pace and is a very good kick of the ball. Superb goal sense and just seems to know where they are and is so natural in that regard. Has played as a defender and also as a wing and shows himself to be versatile and a very adaptable player. Did not look lost in those roles but I do feel he is better suited as an attacking player who gets his own ball rather than a player who works off an opponent. In the forward line is where he does his best work. Either setting up a goal with a precise kick or finishing the work himself.

Capable of winning the ball in the crushes as well and will not hesitate to put his head over it and he is quite a reasonable size for a player who has only just turned 17. Good body size and a decent height to go with speed, skill and versatility. A little bit of an impact player rather than a consistent one but a lot of that can be put down to playing on the half forward “graveyard”. Not too sure about his endurance to play a game out on the ball at this stage.Reasonable in the air for his size but is better with the ball on the ground.

Looks like playing some senior games with South Fremantle in the WAFL this year and then be part of the WA team for the U18 Championships where they will be hard to beat. He played in them last year but was on the bench for most of it.

A very clever and athletic player who has flair, poise and a real cutting edge to his work in the forward line. Will develop more and more as a midfielder over time and has all the tools to become a dangerous midfielder when he is finished. A very smooth mover who is effortless and anticipates well and reads the play.

A bigger and stronger version of his close friend Jetta. Not as quick or as exciting but that is more a case of how good Jetta is rather than something lacking in Collard. I think in time he will become a very attacking wing who can go forward and kick goals as well as run and carry the ball and show poise and class as a link player.


16) Brock O’Brien

Midfielder/half back flanker

180cms and 79kgs
30/5/1988
Peel Thunder (WA)

Physical player suited to playing on an opponent. Thrives on the contest and has a good strong body already. Impressed at the U18 Championships for Western Australia and was used mainly as a defender there. Showed the ability to play close and also to attack at every opportunity. Used the ball well and showed agility and pace as well as picking the right option.
Clean ball handler who has the hands of a good midfielder and a complete game at this early stage. Tough player who runs through and around similar sized players and will take his time to dispose of the ball. Very versatile and really could develop anywhere.
Managed to play senior football for Peel Thunder in the WAFL last year which is quite a feat for someone so young.
Not lightning quick but has good pace and an all around game which belies his age. Good in the air and capable of taking a strong mark. A very good rebounding small defender at this stage who will hopefully develop into a midfielder over time. Hard and classy at the same time and will be top aged come draft time and most likely play most of this year in the seniors for Peel Thunder. So he wont be much of a risk for the team who takes him. A physically ready player with not as much scope as some of the other smalls but a good overall game and the right attitude and temprement to take the next step up to AFL football.




These 3 seem to fit what we are looking for. Good disposal and fast. I put Brock down because i think we need a good rebounding back pocket and he seems to fit the bill. They seem an exciting bunch. Jetta could be understudy to Farmer and looks capable of playing on a wing. Clayton seems ideal for a wing, we need some class delivery into the forward 50. We need midfielders capable of kicking goals on the run. All 3 aforementioned fit nicely.

THese blokes are rated behind Gibbs and Selwood.

FOr more info refer to mojo31 profiles in draft and trading.

 

[Ysaye]

What i want to see happen in the off-season this season is trading, not for players though but for early picks. We need to draft one or two good midfielders, thats how we are going tod evelop out midfield not by trading for a big name like always. The quick fix isnt working and it should be stopped. If we can get an early pick young Selwood would be a good pick, maybe Gibbs but we would need a top 3 probably.
How about young Gary Moss and Matthew Virgo, what sort of time do you think they will go in the draft?
We need to develop a midfield and do it via the draft and we need to do it this season before it is to late.

Well - I have no idea where they will go in the draft, but given that Mojo hasn't even got them in his top 30 maybe you are looking at a second round pick. He also reckons the talent is clearly with the talls, so it will be interesting to see whether that gives us more of a chance at the decent midfielders.

Gibbs will go early. And I am thinking we should stay away from him anyway - he has a faint sound of Des Headland/Brendan Goddard IE. big with good skills but not a packs-man more predator.

Currently I am thinking the priority would be Selwood or a player like him (Albert Proud) who has a reputation for being smart around packs plus good skill. If we finish 8 or lower It is not out of the realms of possibility that he will still be around the time of our first pick.

Then we need to get an explosive midfielder with our next pick. Jetta and Collard all seem the right mix for this.

 

[rgauci]

Interesting i think we have the ball getters in J.Carr and Haze. I think we need more class skirting the packs.

Hence Jetta and Collard. Someone to provide our forwards with better delivery.

I think Gibbs sounds great, more like the Lenny Hayes type. Interesting to think of him in the Goddard mold.

 

[Wizard]

Gibbs will go early. And I am thinking we should stay away from him anyway - he has a faint sound of Des Headland/Brendan Goddard IE. big with good skills but not a packs-man more predator.

There is no question marks over Bryce believe me, he is going to be a champion. I have seen heaps of him and have no doubt he will make it in a big way. He is a mix of Cooney and Griffin and will be better than tham both.

 

[Ysaye]

Interesting i think we have the ball getters in J.Carr and Haze. I think we need more class skirting the packs.

Hence Jetta and Collard. Someone to provide our forwards with better delivery.

I think Gibbs sounds great, more like the Lenny Hayes type. Interesting to think of him in the Goddard mold.

J. Carr gets the ball but often he doesn't use it well.

My thinking with Selwood it's about getting the ball and using it intelligently with good skills - I think we need one of them. Don't get me wrong, we need the explosive speed too, but think another classy rover is just as important.

I haven't seen Gibbs so I don't know, but I know that people said similar things about Headland and Goddard. Complete all round package - good skills, agility etc.. .But even Mojo31 sort of hints that Gibbs might not be the best at actually getting the ball.

 

[rgauci]

J. Carr gets the ball but often he doesn't use it well.

My thinking with Selwood it's about getting the ball and using it intelligently with good skills - I think we need one of them. Don't get me wrong, we need the explosive speed too, but think another classy rover is just as important.

I haven't seen Gibbs so I don't know, but I know that people said similar things about Headland and Goddard. Complete all round package - good skills, agility etc.. .But even Mojo31 sort of hints that Gibbs might not be the best at actually getting the ball.

Absolutely i agree with your thoughts. Its just you always paint the youngsters in the best possible light. I hadn't thought of Goddard.

I agree we need a better extractor, we also need better seagulls, and we seem to be lacking a classy small defender.

You can't fix everything in the one draft. Selwood sounds good. I just hope we make the finals this year. Which would prevent us from nabbing him since he's the best available true midfielder. Picking Selwood, though he sounds great, i think J.Carr is good enough at the moment. If Haze is fit even better.

We should have a pick that could land us Jetta or his mate Collard. Or both with some trading possibly. It would be great to get two young mates down at the club. Both sound they like they have great disposal (something we need), pace (something we need) and a sense for goal (wouldn't that be great from our players on the wing).

 

[docker_johnno]

This looks like a very strong draft...

we must try to get as many top 10 picks as possible.

if we can keep our KPP talent and trade for some midfield goodness then we should be able to hit a flag in 08 or 09.

The way we are going at the moment a flag is not in this group of players.

We need 2 or 3 top line midifelders to develop us into a top 4 team..

Hypothetically 09 team

Medhurst Polak ?

Bell Pavlich ?

Hedland Haselby ?

Mundy Johnson Drum

Duffield Hadrill Grover

RUCK Sandliands Carr ?

IC: Schammer Longmuir McPharlin ?

COACH - Harvey.

Mark Harvey should be allowed to take over as senior coach at some time during the year. It is clear Chris Connoly is never going to be a premiership winning coach. If we can install Harvey for a portion of this year we can see if he has got the ability to be the premiership winning coach we need. If he fails, it would save us installing him at the beggining of 07 and him being useless.


This would mean

RETIREES
Parker
Cook
McManus
Schofield


TRADABLE/DELISTABLE/POSSIBLE RETIREMENT/KEEP
BLACK
BROWNE^
CAMPBELL^
MATT CARR*
COPPING
CROWLEY*
DODD*
DUNN^*
FARMER
GILMORE*
HAINES
HAYDEN*
IBBOTSON
MURPHY*
PEAKE*
THORNTON*
WALKER*
WARNOCK^
WARREN^
WEBSTER

i have put astrisk next to players with genine trade value, and a ^ next to developing players that could possibly make the 22.

Too many KPP's on the list.

 

[rgauci]

Its all a bit negative Docker John. I don't think we need top 10 picks in this draft. THey all seem to be KPP. Something similar to 2003 would be great.

10, 12, 19 and 27 + 43. How did we manage that again? Koops for 19 was one.

Plus i don't think our list is far off it at the moment. Look at Collingwood, they had a bad year last year. A few kids in the midfield and suddenly their top 4 material. Hell this season could turn around for us. We are 2 wins 2 losses.

 

[Ripper]

Its all a bit negative Docker John. I don't think we need top 10 picks in this draft. THey all seem to be KPP. Something similar to 2003 would be great.

10, 12, 19 and 27 + 43. How did we manage that again? Koops for 19 was one.

Plus i don't think our list is far off it at the moment. Look at Collingwood, they had a bad year last year. A few kids in the midfield and suddenly their top 4 material. Hell this season could turn around for us. We are 2 wins 2 losses.

Exactly

 

[docker_johnno]

its not good enough being middle of the road.

We can get some top 10 picks easily then have the cattle to win a GF.

 

[rgauci]

its not good enough being middle of the road.

We can get some top 10 picks easily then have the cattle to win a GF.

Your missing the point. There's not many midfielders rated in the top 10. Only two in fact, and one is more a utility than a midfielder.

You can get some of the best midfielders in this draft between pick 10 and 30.

One guy said than anyone up to pick 20 would have gone before Dale Thomas, does that give you an idea what we can get with 3 picks inside 20.

This is apparently the next super draft. I say apparently, cause how the hell would i know.

 

[Wizard]

I do not want Jetta or Collard. We dont need anymore aboriginal players. This is not racist but we hav enough of them at the moment and as midfielders they generally are not tough in and under players. We need a Dal Santo type and Jetta isnt this. At best he is A Wells type but not as good which to me isnt saying a lot. Selwood to me is what we need and if we have to trade to get him then so be it. Dunn or Murphy plus our first pick which it hink will be 10-12 will get us a top 5 pick IMO which will be enough to get us a gun. This is a super draft mark my words we cant waste this oppurtunity to pick up a ready made star.
On Selwood other than the fact that he is a gun the other reason i want him is cos there isn't as much go home factor with his brother already being over here.

 

[Ysaye]

Its all a bit negative Docker John. I don't think we need top 10 picks in this draft. THey all seem to be KPP. Something similar to 2003 would be great.

10, 12, 19 and 27 + 43. How did we manage that again? Koops for 19 was one.

Plus i don't think our list is far off it at the moment. Look at Collingwood, they had a bad year last year. A few kids in the midfield and suddenly their top 4 material. Hell this season could turn around for us. We are 2 wins 2 losses.

Yep - I agree that the draft numbers you are putting up are more than reasonable in this draft (Maybe the 10 could be traded around for something a bit higher).

The basic foundation of our list is good - we have a three/four quality talls and a good number of hard working smaller types. I reckon two or three really quality kids (Could include the unseens like Drum that we already have) will make a huge difference.

Wiz9 - I still think the aboriginal kids bring could be important; IMO the agility and speed will help us get out of these congested situations easier - I am not saying that we should only get speedy players, I am saying we should look to get a Selwood smart skillful midfielder first and then an agile explosive midfielder second or third (Of which there are a few in this draft, not just the two mentioned).

On the other hand I agree with your idea about the trade of pick 10ish plus our other pick to get something low enough to get at Selwood.

 

[Ripper]

IMO Dunn nothing is the missing link.

Get him match fit and watch out.

with all the wrist slashing around the place I reckon that the match committee really thought they had a big coup with this bloke.

They may still be right, he is the missing link.

 

[docker_johnno]

You can't rely on getting picks in the top 20.. we want picks in the top10 to ensure we get the best players.

 

[Ripper]

You can't rely on getting picks in the top 20.. we want picks in the top10 to ensure we get the best players.

Bull , the draft is just a thing for footy fans to argue about.

Look at One Melee Dodd . Killer Crowley , 211 , Grover (my man ) Duff man etc etc.

We get the Freo boys who grew up supporting Freo Footy and not the E-girls and we willl be 120% better off.

I look forward to malpaso calling me an Idiot fot that call.

 

[pinkus maximus]

agree with that^^^

 

[docker_johnno]

Bull , the draft is just a thing for footy fans to argue about.

Look at One Melee Dodd . Killer Crowley , 211 , Grover (my man ) Duff man etc etc.

We get the Freo boys who grew up supporting Freo Footy and not the E-girls and we willl be 120% better off.

I look forward to malpaso calling me an Idiot fot that call.

Ripper sorry to tell you but there are 3 mediocre players, one good player and another yet to be proven there. None of these player would be a hair on the arse of a good top 10 draft pick, eg Haselby, Pavlich, Longmuir.


Lets get good players. Dodd and Crowley will never win anyone a premiership, Jetta, Selwood and Collard + Haselby and Josh Carr, now that is a competitve midfield.

Pavlich was not a Freo supporter growing up, lets ditch him and pick up some mediocre WAFL player so we can dwell in the bottom four for the rest of our existance.

Sacrafice a little now for the chance of future glory, cant keep plodding along like we are, the making of a good team are there. The Forwards are among the best in the AFL, the defence will only get better from here on with the youngsters, lets add to that a young gun midfield ready for them to all fire in 08 - 09.

 

[Ripper]

Ripper sorry to tell you but there are 3 mediocre players, one good player and another yet to be proven there. None of these player would be a hair on the arse of a good top 10 draft pick, eg Haselby, Pavlich, Longmuir.


Lets get good players. Dodd and Crowley will never win anyone a premiership, Jetta, Selwood and Collard + Haselby and Josh Carr, now that is a competitve midfield.

Pavlich was not a Freo supporter growing up, lets ditch him and pick up some mediocre WAFL player so we can dwell in the bottom four for the rest of our existance.

Sacrafice a little now for the chance of future glory, cant keep plodding along like we are, the making of a good team are there. The Forwards are among the best in the AFL, the defence will only get better from here on with the youngsters, lets add to that a young gun midfield ready for them to all fire in 08 - 09.

What a load of crap. Crowley and Dodd (grew up a Freo supporter and it shows in the mongrel that he produces) are matchwinners.

The draft is a waste of time. A salary cap provides all the equalisation needed.

Works for the NRL , different premier every year , abbasolutley no different for the AFL.

Just another thing for the fans to waste time trying to rate kids over,
and as history has proved some kids go on, others are duds.

Just another exuse to remove the Freo Boys from Freo to the VFL.

 

[raffrox]

Ripper sorry to tell you but there are 3 mediocre players, one good player and another yet to be proven there. None of these player would be a hair on the arse of a good top 10 draft pick, eg Haselby, Pavlich, Longmuir.


Lets get good players. Dodd and Crowley will never win anyone a premiership, Jetta, Selwood and Collard + Haselby and Josh Carr, now that is a competitve midfield.

Pavlich was not a Freo supporter growing up, lets ditch him and pick up some mediocre WAFL player so we can dwell in the bottom four for the rest of our existance.

Sacrafice a little now for the chance of future glory, cant keep plodding along like we are, the making of a good team are there. The Forwards are among the best in the AFL, the defence will only get better from here on with the youngsters, lets add to that a young gun midfield ready for them to all fire in 08 - 09.

I really hate when people mention a 16/17 year old kid and say that they are going to solve the problems of any team.

I still remember the Sunday times sports page after Polaks first game for East Freo. Something like "The Answer to Freos Problems".

Well I'm still waiting.

Jetta, Selwood and Collard (who, who and who? - how many AFL games they played?). Salopek and Goddard were rated massively by the 'experts' in their year and if we had both of them we would still be in search of midfield grunt. The promise of a young kid sometimes seems better that the schmuck you see playing each week but its usually not the case.

 

[docker_johnno]

What a load of crap. Crowley and Dodd (grew up a Freo supporter and it shows in the mongrel that he produces) are matchwinners.

The draft is a waste of time. A salary cap provides all the equalisation needed.

Works for the NRL , different premier every year , abbasolutley no different for the AFL.

Just another thing for the fans to waste time trying to rate kids over,
and as history has proved some kids go on, others are duds.

Just another exuse to remove the Freo Boys from Freo to the VFL.

Dodd is a matchwinner, the skinny kid is negative player and he couldnt hit a barn door off 10 paces. Don't get me wrong, we need him but if we had a team of players like him as you are suggesting we would be worse than Carlton.

Crowley is ok, both enjoy having a cheap shot off the ball. When the ball is there to be won they are not the same tough man picking the fight.

Lets draft some midfield talent ripper.

 

[rgauci]

I agree we need some midfield talent. This coming draft (its a very long way away) is full of key position players. The top 10 will probably consist of 8 key position players, 1 midfielder (Selwood) and 1 utility (Gibbs).

Thats the assessment of the experts at this early early stage. The names i put up filled voids in our list.

At the moment i see the voids as follows (in no particular order):

1) In and under midfielder
2) Wingman
3) Back Pocket

1. Getting a Selwood type is fine. We need someone who can get in and under. We have Josh Carr and Hasleby at the moment. Both are very good at feeding the ball out. If Hasleby was fit this wouldn't be a problem. Selwood would improve our midfield, but only marginally. We'd be screaming the same thing, another midfielder, one pace team etc. etc. Yes we'd have another class midfielder but how much does it improve our list.

2. Collard and Jetta come under the wingman category. The reason i highlighted these two, apart from the fact they are West Aussie, is they have excellent disposal by foot. They would be competing for spots on the list with Peake, Walker, Crowley, M.Carr, H.BLack, Des Headland or whoever else we put on the wing. This is a major area of weakness in my opinion. The disposal from these guys is shocking. No wonder our forwards are struggling when our midfielders can't hit a target. I don't read anywhere on their profiles that says they can't win their own ball. It talks about how Collard will put his head over the ball!! Seriously just because they are aborginal doesn't mean they are outside players. That is a HUGE generalisation. Jetta by all accounts is an excitement machine. Not unlike our Jeffery. Would be nice to have another player at the crumbs in our forward line who can also play on the wing.

3. Back Pocket. Another area we seem to be lacking. I'm not liking the Schammer experiment. Hayden is out of form, hopefully he returns to his best. Duffield is an unknown at the moment. So we have a few options in this area. But i still see it as a deficiency. We get towelled by the small forwards. I mean even Leon Davis has good games against us. Hence why i put O'Brien's profile up. West Aussie. Seems capable of playing the rebound game from defence. Also has excellent foot skills.


Here's picture of some of the boys. Back in 2003. When they are 14.

http://stateschoolboys.com.au/2003/Index2003.htm

I'd love to get Selwood, Jetta, Collard and O'Brien. Heck throw in GIbbs too and why not Hansen. But in reality we'll have to prioritise. I think our biggest area of improvement can come in the way of wingman/midfielders who have good disposal and pace. Hence Collard and Jetta are high on my list.

Though if Selwood was available you take him over the other midfielders purely because he's rated higher. But i wouldn't be trading away players just to get him. Because another in and under, no matter how good, wouldn't solve our problem.

 

[Dr Ralph Dagg]

I do not want Jetta or Collard. We dont need anymore aboriginal players. This is not racist but we hav enough of them at the moment and as midfielders they generally are not tough in and under players.

I've arranged for Troy Cook and Byron Pickett to head around to your place to beat some sense into you. Andrew McLeod will supervise.

 

[Wizard]

I've arranged for Troy Cook and Byron Pickett to head around to your place to beat some sense into you. Andrew McLeod will supervise.

Thats 2 players out of how many that are tough and in and under. Mcleod is as soft as butter a the moment.