2011 Collingwood Draft Prospects Thread

[Nicco_jj]

Those deals are too weak, but I have considered whether they'd be interested in a deal involving Macaffer/Goldsack/McCarthy/1st Round pick for one of those 17 year olds.

It's a lot to give (quantity wise), but we're talking about a Top 5 pick in the draft, essentially - A Dale Thomas/Scott Pendlebury level talent, potentially.

I have wondered if GWS might be interested in such a deal to actually fill out their list with more experienced AFL players. Sheedy has already said that they intend to take more uncontracted players than GC did, so it only stands to reason that they are (rightfully) concerned about the impact that a non-competitive early start could have on their franchise.

I think three AFL caliber players under the age of 25, two of them premiership players, could be a tempting offer to a side trying to fill out a best 22.

I think J-Mac and Goldsack (and farmer? Stubbs) plus first round pick for Jager?

 

[Bay Pie]

Interesting read from Adelaides' Matt Rendell:

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/118480/default.aspx

However, Crows recruiting manager Matt Rendell suggested the Giants would prefer a player, rather than another pick, in what's been described as a shallow draft pool.

"GWS don't want another pick," Rendell said.

"I don't think you'll find GWS doing much this year with those [17-year-olds] if it involves draft picks.

"If they're going to go down that path, they might as well wait until next year and try and get more picks in what's going to be a bloody good draft.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/118480/default.aspx

IMO they'll target the clubs with 1st round compensation picks, for uncontracted players that the sign.

For example, if Rhys Palmer gets a massive deal from GWS, that scores Freo an end of 1st round draft pick. Freo trade that pick + a good player to GWS for O'Meara.

GWS can then use that pick in the projected strong draft of 2012 as pick 20ish.

That is the type of deal they'll do or more likely if no gun players are thrown up, they'll hang onto the 4 x 17 year old trades for the 2012 draft and trade for draft picks then.

 

[Yoda_]

Interesting read from Adelaides' Matt Rendell:

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/118480/default.aspx

However, Crows recruiting manager Matt Rendell suggested the Giants would prefer a player, rather than another pick, in what's been described as a shallow draft pool.

"GWS don't want another pick," Rendell said.

"I don't think you'll find GWS doing much this year with those [17-year-olds] if it involves draft picks.

"If they're going to go down that path, they might as well wait until next year and try and get more picks in what's going to be a bloody good draft.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/118480/default.aspx

IMO they'll target the clubs with 1st round compensation picks, for uncontracted players that the sign.

For example, if Rhys Palmer gets a massive deal from GWS, that scores Freo an end of 1st round draft pick. Freo trade that pick + a good player to GWS for O'Meara.

GWS can then use that pick in the projected strong draft of 2012 as pick 20ish.

That is the type of deal they'll do or more likely if no gun players are thrown up, they'll hang onto the 4 x 17 year old trades for the 2012 draft and trade for draft picks then.

I think people are forgetting why GWS are getting these concessions.

Why would GWS trade out a 'draftee' in there draft year, for another pick? why wouldnt they just keep the gun kid? Of course GWS were always going to go for more uncontracted players. I get the feeling they will need success earlier than what Gold Coast need.

 

[Bay Pie]

I think people are forgetting why GWS are getting these concessions.

Why would GWS trade out a 'draftee' in there draft year, for another pick? why wouldnt they just keep the gun kid? Of course GWS were always going to go for more uncontracted players. I get the feeling they will need success earlier than what Gold Coast need.

Because they have to trade them under the rules. They cannot keep them. If, for example, GWS finish last in 2012, they get the no.1 pick for the draft. They could take O'Meara then if no one has acquired him already but they can't keep the 4 x 17 year olds to themselves.

I'm unsure if the 17 year old rule applies for 2011 & 2012 trade periods, in that, a different set of 17 year olds available for trade in 2012 trade period from the O'Meara, Garlett, Yarran who are some of the 17 year olds for the 2011 trade period.

If only the 17 years old from this year are available next year as 18 year olds, for trading by GWS, clubs with early picks, will trade early picks for these kids if they are more likely to be a better player then one proposed to fall to their pick. O'Meara rated 2nd best player in draft by cub recruiter. Club has pick 3 or worse. Clubs offers pick to GWS to get that kid and draft and play them straight away.

Different scenario, if clubs have to again, wait a year before the kid can play, like they do this year.

 

[TradeDraft]

Been Making some Highlight Video's of the U-18 Games and I found 2 Interesting Prospects from WA:

1st Jordan Lockyer a 190cm Key Back or Key Forward who has massive Attack on the Ball and his Father is the Head Recruiting Guy at Collingwood

[YOUTUBE]E50qGgVEf8g[/YOUTUBE]

2nd Marlen Williams a Medium Forward with Good Pace and Pentrating Kick and Having a Player with Good Pace would be a Need for the List

[YOUTUBE]Fy3hYbUSOYI[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Snoop Dog]

Far to early to be talking about exactly who we might go for. There is a lot of water to go under the bridge before then.

I think its more likely they will be currently talking about the list make up and where they are weak or strong and who is likely to be coming off the list.

For me I would be looking to delist the minimim this year (which I understand is 3? or is it 2 because of GWS??). Assuming no trades (which I suspect there will be bc any of Goldy, Caf, Macca, Young could reasonably be asked to be traded so they got more opportunity) then I suspect the following;

Ceglar or Wood. Probably Ceglar. he was a set of steak knives and came in as a 19yo. Hasnt shown a heap and with Witts coming on we dont need 4. Could bring back as a rookie

Stubbs - Hasnt shown enough for me and was always a rookie selection. Not that its hurt us but i think that was one of the sillier selections we have had. Showed a bit at NSW but wasnt a senior listed type. Maybe put him on the rookie list.

Young, Buckley or McCarthy - Only if we have to! YOung maybe because we have a heap of his type. Buckley because they may prefer to back Young and Rounds into the side before him and Macca because we have a heap of him and Sinclair, Thomas and Bolton are pushing up. Macca will have value and enable to get a Rd 3 pick traded into a high Rd 2 pick. Depends on what they want but I would think these three are in the mix. Young would def have value with Sydney or GWS.

Ps - I think they will stick with Brad for one more year and see how his body shapes up.

Of the rookies I think;

Scott Reed - good VFL player but to many of his type
Shae McNamara - c'mon we've had a go and failed time to move on.
Tom Hunter - Obviously
Jack Perham - I just dont see him making it.

Added rookies would be Witts and Hartley leaving 2 live selections.

In terms of what we would draft I would think there will be some emphasis on some spine types. We are very short in that area so guys like young Gordon, Dobosz, Frost, Paine, Tomlinson, Coleman as well as a few others I wont mention just yet would be in the frame. I would have a preference these guys get taken earlier than later.

 

[Snoop Dog]

Here are some Names from Mid years Mock Drafts from Chris25 and Knightmare

Knightmare's Mock Draft for Pies:

#25 Collingwood - Shane Kersten (WA – Fwd)
Height: 191cm, Weight: 90kg, DOB: 15/03/1993
Recruited from: South Fremantle
Style:
Range: 15-35
Why:

#43 Collingwood – Aseri Raikiwasa (SA – KPD/Def)
Height: 191cm, Weight: 91kg, DOB: 18/04/1993
Recruited from: Port Adelaide Magpies
Style:
Range:
Why:


#61 Collingwood – Ahmed Saad (VIC - Fwd)
Height: 175cm, Weight: 76kg, DOB: 09/10/1989
Recruited from: Northern Bullants
Style:
Range:
Why:

Chris25 Mock Draft for Pies:

#25 Collingwood - Sam Docherty (183cm defender - Gippsland)

#43 Collingwood - Sam Kerridge (188cm midfielder - Bendigo)

#61 Collingwood - Jackson Merrett (187cm midfielder - Geelong)

Re Knighta's

Kersten - I like Kersten but will be surprised if he goes this early. He dominates u18 level but he isnt big enough to hold down a KFP.
Raikiwasa - same as above. Had a super champs and been great for Port but he aint big enough for CHB (although very athletic) and not likely to grow another 3-4cm.
Saad - Happy with him but he will be at GWS for sure.

What I like about Knighta's is that the types are more what I think they should be.

Re Chris25

Docherty - nice choice and is well regarded by the clubs. Hasnt been spoken of a lot and has impressed for GP. Like those Gippy boys.
Kerridge - one of my favourites. Great size and good mover but in a crap side and not showing us his best. Didnt get a great run at champs and wasnt a standout so might be reaching for this high at this stage.
Merrett - I like him.....a lot.

Whilst I like these players I just dont think we need any more of their sort.

 

[Shade]

i am 100 percent sure one of macaffer, McCarthy or goldsack will wanna be traded at seasons end.

 

[Snoop Dog]

i am 100 percent sure one of macaffer, McCarthy or goldsack will wanna be traded at seasons end.

nor am i but i certainly aint 100% sure they will stay either. To be fair they all deserve to be playing senior footy so you couldnt deny them the chance. I think Goldsack will be targetted - he has been mighty unlucky at times.

 

[Knightmare]

Re Knighta's

Kersten - I like Kersten but will be surprised if he goes this early. He dominates u18 level but he isnt big enough to hold down a KFP.
Raikiwasa - same as above. Had a super champs and been great for Port but he aint big enough for CHB (although very athletic) and not likely to grow another 3-4cm.
Saad - Happy with him but he will be at GWS for sure.

What I like about Knighta's is that the types are more what I think they should be.

Probably did that draft order maybe a month or two ago.
The things I'm looking at for this year are more those medium size types or utilities who could be natural fits into the side since I don't see any KPPs from this year will be able to break into our rotation at any time in the immediate future as well as best available selections.
Lockyer, Kersten, Raikiwasa and Forster amongst others would be the type of thing I'd go after unless there is a clear standout who is clearly best available.

My draft plan at this stage is make 2012 the big KPP draft with Stewart as F/S then maybe a Jaksch/ other KPP in the 2nd round.
But can understand why you would like to add some this year since there could be a couple of ok options around our 1st + 2nd round selections.

I think its more likely they will be currently talking about the list make up and where they are weak or strong and who is likely to be coming off the list.

For me I would be looking to delist the minimim this year (which I understand is 3? or is it 2 because of GWS??). Assuming no trades (which I suspect there will be bc any of Goldy, Caf, Macca, Young could reasonably be asked to be traded so they got more opportunity) then I suspect the following;

Ceglar or Wood. Probably Ceglar. he was a set of steak knives and came in as a 19yo. Hasnt shown a heap and with Witts coming on we dont need 4. Could bring back as a rookie

Stubbs - Hasnt shown enough for me and was always a rookie selection. Not that its hurt us but i think that was one of the sillier selections we have had. Showed a bit at NSW but wasnt a senior listed type. Maybe put him on the rookie list.

Young, Buckley or McCarthy - Only if we have to! YOung maybe because we have a heap of his type. Buckley because they may prefer to back Young and Rounds into the side before him and Macca because we have a heap of him and Sinclair, Thomas and Bolton are pushing up. Macca will have value and enable to get a Rd 3 pick traded into a high Rd 2 pick. Depends on what they want but I would think these three are in the mix. Young would def have value with Sydney or GWS.

Ps - I think they will stick with Brad for one more year and see how his body shapes up.

Of the rookies I think;

Scott Reed - good VFL player but to many of his type
Shae McNamara - c'mon we've had a go and failed time to move on.
Tom Hunter - Obviously
Jack Perham - I just dont see him making it.

Added rookies would be Witts and Hartley leaving 2 live selections.

In terms of what we would draft I would think there will be some emphasis on some spine types. We are very short in that area so guys like young Gordon, Dobosz, Frost, Paine, Tomlinson, Coleman as well as a few others I wont mention just yet would be in the frame. I would have a preference these guys get taken earlier than later.

I had very similar views with regard to Ceglar pre-draft. Thought he was a rookie option at best. I'd probably stick with him, will take time, but possible no.2 option behind Witts for 2015. Could be rookied, but I'm fairly keen to retain - even as a rookie. But interesting delist option I haven't put allot of consideration into.
The thing with Wood is while he hasn't developed, would Witts be capable of coming in 4-5 games if Jolly needs to miss though? Don't think Ceglar could and I have similar doubts on Witts in the immediate. Think he will need that 3-4 seasons minimum until he establishes himself - even at his size. Would be surprised if he was good enough in season 1/2 to play senior games.

Stubbs I'm in agreement. Never regarded him as a senior list type and was really surprised by the selection. Thought I must have been missing something. I wouldn't be opposed to delist, then rookie. But I wouldn't retain as a senior player.

Really surprised you have Young in the mix for delisting! After season 1 I rate him inside out best 30-35 players. His kicking is questionable and still needs to add some size so that when he plays on he doesn't go down so easily. But I think he can progress into a best 22 player or close with time. Only year 1 after all!
Buckley and McCarthy being fringe players at their age maybe could be delisted. I certainly had them as the delistings preseason, but i've been encouraged by their respective improvement and would lean to persisting with both.

A little surprised you're in favour of retaining Brad Dick. Fantastic player at his best but nothing he has done this year has impressed me and think it will take 2+ years for him to come close to getting back into anything close to AFL condition and having any level confidence in his body.

Agree completely on rookie delistings.

Interesting you have Coleman in that mix. One I'm interested to watch the progress of also. But don't quite know just where to place him at this stage.

 

[Breakthelines]

i am 100 percent sure one of macaffer, McCarthy or goldsack will wanna be traded at seasons end.

I don't think Macaffer will be, he has had an injury interupted/riddled season and would be best 22 if fit.

Goldy has always been a back up defender and has opportunities in the coming years.

McCarthy......just F#$K Off already you absolute bum!

 

[Snoop Dog]

My draft plan at this stage is make 2012 the big KPP draft with Stewart as F/S then maybe a Jaksch/ other KPP in the 2nd round.
But can understand why you would like to add some this year since there could be a couple of ok options around our 1st + 2nd round selections.

Really surprised you have Young in the mix for delisting! After season 1 I rate him inside out best 30-35 players. His kicking is questionable and still needs to add some size so that when he plays on he doesn't go down so easily. But I think he can progress into a best 22 player or close with time. Only year 1 after all!A little surprised you're in favour of retaining Brad Dick. Fantastic player at his best but nothing he has done this year has impressed me and think it will take 2+ years for him to come close to getting back into anything close to AFL condition and having any level confidence in his body.

Yeah I dont mind some of the taller types this year and if we had a couple of picks reasonably early I would hit one at least. Am very keen on Sam Frost, Bussey (one of the few that still on him) and Gordon as earlier picks along with Paine, Dobosz, talia and Tomlinson who would be further down but still rate them well. When I look at next years draft I am more excited by the med mids / x factor types so if we had some decent choices then I would definately go taller at least at one choice. I just dont rate perham, wood, ceglar, mcnamara and would just rather punt them now. agree have to keep one of wood or ceglar but would be just as happy to punt both and aim for a West at Geelong or something. In saying that I think they will persist with Wood for another year but agree Witts will challenge him sooner than later.

Dont know your thoughts but have put my top 150 together and I must say I think there are some real beauties in there towards the middle and end so not as negative as was previously. Have got a rough order but will wait for a while yet I think before I commit.

 

[TradeDraft]

Far to early to be talking about exactly who we might go for. There is a lot of water to go under the bridge before then.

I think its more likely they will be currently talking about the list make up and where they are weak or strong and who is likely to be coming off the list.

For me I would be looking to delist the minimim this year (which I understand is 3? or is it 2 because of GWS??). Assuming no trades (which I suspect there will be bc any of Goldy, Caf, Macca, Young could reasonably be asked to be traded so they got more opportunity) then I suspect the following;

Ceglar or Wood. Probably Ceglar. he was a set of steak knives and came in as a 19yo. Hasnt shown a heap and with Witts coming on we dont need 4. Could bring back as a rookie

Stubbs - Hasnt shown enough for me and was always a rookie selection. Not that its hurt us but i think that was one of the sillier selections we have had. Showed a bit at NSW but wasnt a senior listed type. Maybe put him on the rookie list.

Young, Buckley or McCarthy - Only if we have to! YOung maybe because we have a heap of his type. Buckley because they may prefer to back Young and Rounds into the side before him and Macca because we have a heap of him and Sinclair, Thomas and Bolton are pushing up. Macca will have value and enable to get a Rd 3 pick traded into a high Rd 2 pick. Depends on what they want but I would think these three are in the mix. Young would def have value with Sydney or GWS.

Ps - I think they will stick with Brad for one more year and see how his body shapes up.

Of the rookies I think;

Scott Reed - good VFL player but to many of his type
Shae McNamara - c'mon we've had a go and failed time to move on.
Tom Hunter - Obviously
Jack Perham - I just dont see him making it.

Added rookies would be Witts and Hartley leaving 2 live selections.

In terms of what we would draft I would think there will be some emphasis on some spine types. We are very short in that area so guys like young Gordon, Dobosz, Frost, Paine, Tomlinson, Coleman as well as a few others I wont mention just yet would be in the frame. I would have a preference these guys get taken earlier than later.

I would keep Ceglar over Wood as he has more Potential then Wood as Ceglar can go Forward and Kick Goals

 

[Number 10]

I don't think Macaffer will be, he has had an injury interupted/riddled season and would be best 22 if fit.

Goldy has always been a back up defender and has opportunities in the coming years.

McCarthy......just F#$K Off already you absolute bum!

Can't help but laugh at this.

 

[ChipDouglas]

quote=Knightmare;


I had very similar views with regard to Ceglar pre-draft. Thought he was a rookie option at best

Anyone who had seen the bulk of Ceglars work in 2010 would have recognized him as an emerging talent. If he was just a 'rookie chance' we wouldn't have asked for him, he's much better than that.

 

[Harry O]

Does the rule still exist where you can rookie list the NSW scholars for 1 year outside your normal rookie list allowance. Means we could potentially have 6 standard rookies, 4 NSW rookies (Witts, Hartley, Carracher and Yakimov) plus McNamara as a 3rd year international rookie in 2012.

 

[TradeDraft]

Anyone who had seen the bulk of Ceglars work in 2010 would have recognized him as an emerging talent. If he was just a 'rookie chance' we wouldn't have asked for him, he's much better than that.

Did you seen him play in 2010 Mate?

I agree if he was a Rookie Chance then why did we ask for him in the Krakouer Trade if we could of Rookied Cegar?

Nothing against Snoop Saying That but He just seems to be Highly Rated as I have read that Pies Rated Ceglar in the top 30 Prospects

 

[Knightmare]

Yeah I dont mind some of the taller types this year and if we had a couple of picks reasonably early I would hit one at least. Am very keen on Sam Frost, Bussey (one of the few that still on him) and Gordon as earlier picks along with Paine, Dobosz, talia and Tomlinson who would be further down but still rate them well. When I look at next years draft I am more excited by the med mids / x factor types so if we had some decent choices then I would definately go taller at least at one choice. I just dont rate perham, wood, ceglar, mcnamara and would just rather punt them now. agree have to keep one of wood or ceglar but would be just as happy to punt both and aim for a West at Geelong or something. In saying that I think they will persist with Wood for another year but agree Witts will challenge him sooner than later.

Dont know your thoughts but have put my top 150 together and I must say I think there are some real beauties in there towards the middle and end so not as negative as was previously. Have got a rough order but will wait for a while yet I think before I commit.

Of those listed the only one I think has any chance of developing into anything moderately relevant is Ceglar. But not sold and will take time. Certainly Witts as a ruckman will go past him so maybe the no.2 role is an option unless Keeffe eventually grows into that role.

Of this years talls I also have McInness in there amongst that group.

Have a similar order in place but no doubt it will change significantly over the next couple of months.

I would keep Ceglar over Wood as he has more Potential then Wood as Ceglar can go Forward and Kick Goals

I'm with you. Ceglar still has potential to develop as a player.

Wood. Not so much. But ok backup who can play the 3-4 games per year and the only ruckman who can step in when Jolly is out.

Anyone who had seen the bulk of Ceglars work in 2010 would have recognized him as an emerging talent. If he was just a 'rookie chance' we wouldn't have asked for him, he's much better than that.

I see him well behind Witts.
The possible role I see for Ceglar is as a no.2 ruckman, but if we decide we don't need Keeffe down back in the future then I think he will go well past Ceglar. Just THAT much more talented.

As a junior I always viewed him as a "mobile ruckman" who didn't project as anything better than a backup. Early season form really surprised me when he played as a forward. But has tapered off.
Still hold hope for him. But is a long way off senior action.

Nothing against Snoop Saying That but He just seems to be Highly Rated as I have read that Pies Rated Ceglar in the top 30 Prospects

Haven't heard this but interesting if true.
But like the Sinclair one in 2009. I wouldn't have had either nearly that high. But with that said in both cases my expectations have been exceeded.
Will be interesting in both cases with time whether they work out with time or not.

 

[TradeDraft]

I see him well behind Witts.
The possible role I see for Ceglar is as a no.2 ruckman, but if we decide we don't need Keeffe down back in the future then I think he will go well past Ceglar. Just THAT much more talented.

As a junior I always viewed him as a "mobile ruckman" who didn't project as anything better than a backup. Early season form really surprised me when he played as a forward. But has tapered off.
Still hold hope for him. But is a long way off senior action.

Well you said Put Witts on the Rookie List and that Sounds to me you think Witts is a Long Way Off as well

 

[ChipDouglas]

Did you seen him play in 2010 Mate?

I agree if he was a Rookie Chance then why did we ask for him in the Krakouer Trade if we could of Rookied Cegar?

Nothing against Snoop Saying That but He just seems to be Highly Rated as I have read that Pies Rated Ceglar in the top 30 Prospects

I watched all of Ceglar's games for Vic Country and he carried the ruck for the division 1 champions and was a big reason behind their success. It's just nonsense to say Witts is miles ahead of Ceglar at the same age, I would put their football on the same level maybe with Ceglar slightly infront.

 

[Breakthelines]

I watched all of Ceglar's games for Vic Country and he carried the ruck for the division 1 champions and was a big reason behind their success. It's just nonsense to say Witts is miles ahead of Ceglar at the same age, I would put their football on the same level maybe with Ceglar slightly infront.

So with Jolly still right for 2-3 more years. Ceglar & Witts coming through nicely.....what of Cam Wood?

 

[TheFreshBanana]

I doubt Jolly still has 3 years left. He's missed half the season this year due to knee problems which is an integral part of a ruckman's game. I would say, if he continues on from this year, another 2 years at most.

Also I just rewatched Elijah Edwards highlights and man oh man am I excited. Touch wood he doesn't get injured. But is it possible for another Club to draft him? I know something like that happened between Hawthorn and us with Paul Seedsman(?) or some player we drafted last season.

 

[TradeDraft]

Also I just rewatched Elijah Edwards highlights and man oh man am I excited. Touch wood he doesn't get injured. But is it possible for another Club to draft him? I know something like that happened between Hawthorn and us with Paul Seedsman(?) or some player we drafted last season.

You Mean Trent Stubbs - The Only Reason another Team would get Edwards is:

1. He Decides he does not want to play for Collingwood
2. He does not want to go on the Rookie List IF we ask him in his Draft Year

 

[Breakthelines]

I doubt Jolly still has 3 years left. He's missed half the season this year due to knee problems which is an integral part of a ruckman's game. I would say, if he continues on from this year, another 2 years at most.

Also I just rewatched Elijah Edwards highlights and man oh man am I excited. Touch wood he doesn't get injured. But is it possible for another Club to draft him? I know something like that happened between Hawthorn and us with Paul Seedsman(?) or some player we drafted last season.

I did say 2-3.
That was Stubbs.

 

[Dundalis]

I watched all of Ceglar's games for Vic Country and he carried the ruck for the division 1 champions and was a big reason behind their success. It's just nonsense to say Witts is miles ahead of Ceglar at the same age, I would put their football on the same level maybe with Ceglar slightly infront.

If Ceglar was ahead at the same stage why was he not drafted in his draft year, while Witts is talked about as one of the best ruckman in his?