2012 list management.

[Fat Pizza]

Due to our reducing list, I'm starting to lean towards trading that pick 2 for that mini pick again and get Jack Martin from WA. I think he's the one rated as the best in that mini draft? Anyone know much about him? Sunny?

I'm not sure we can use many of our picks this year with a shrinking list.

Just imagine another Harley Bennell. He grabs the ball from a pack, handpasses, gets it back, passes to someone else, marks a pass from that player, kicks a goal...Very talented. Not sure what he's like off field, but a year in the club before his first AFL game sounds like a smart move.

 

[supernova_]

Just imagine another Harley Bennell. He grabs the ball from a pack, handpasses, gets it back, passes to someone else, marks a pass from that player, kicks a goal...Very talented. Not sure what he's like off field, but a year in the club before his first AFL game sounds like a smart move.

Salivating

But in all seriousness, it just releases the pressure somewhat as the mini pick (O'Meara this year) doesn't take up a spot on our senior list as far as I understand? So if we do it again, next year, reduced the pressure. Gives the other originals from 2011 who do not get delisted, 1 more year before another cull and reduction of our list again.

The negative to it all is GWS are gifted the top few picks AGAIN. Gee they do get a golden ride though with their concessions compared to ours.

We get 1 shot at setting up our list, and they can do theirs over 2 years and some extra currency to trade and improve their list. Realistically on paper (just picks) they should be able to advance faster than us with the currency they've been given...will be interesting how it pans out though, that's for sure. I don't think we've really put a foot wrong yet though as far as I'm concerned with our drafting/trading.

 

[Scotty_222]

if we reduce our list more this year what does that mean for the reserves and injuries, i mean look at this year we have a list of 44 is it? and with soo many injuries how are we suppose to field a side next year with a reduced list?

 

[Sunny_]

'Best' is probably different depending on what your needs are. It's either Hogan or Martin.

Take Brisbane for example. They would rate Hogan as the best person in the MD because they're short on gorilla KPF's once Brown is gone. He's pretty much the Darling/Patton forward.

Whereas the Suns already have a surplus of KPP players. We would rate Martin as the best, simply because we have the KPP prospects sorted and ready to roll. Granted we have good young midfielders already, but you can load up on more of them and have a very good side. There's only a certain amount of KPP's you can put on the deck at once though.

I wouldn't say Martin has 'issues', though his Father sounds like one of the super protective sorts which could lead to problems. Already he has said that if Martin is picked up by a club that won't benefit Martin's development, he will stay in WA for the year. As an indigenous player from WA that is close to family, Martin will likely have the same rumours surrounding him that Harley did. Returning home, etc etc. But I think Harley, Harbrow, Patrick and Hunt could make him feel at home.

 

[supernova_]

if we reduce our list more this year what does that mean for the reserves and injuries, i mean look at this year we have a list of 44 is it? and with soo many injuries how are we suppose to field a side next year with a reduced list?

I think our list started at 52? reduced by 2 last year, and 2 again this year, so next year we are down to 48 I believe?

Other clubs are at 44 players.

We have had a freak run of injuries this year though, lets be honest...no other club has had 19 on their injury list, maybe about 12-14 players...but lets not get facts in the way of a poor old us victorian story.

 

[SUNS]

'Best' is probably different depending on what your needs are. It's either Hogan or Martin.

Take Brisbane for example. They would rate Hogan as the best person in the MD because they're short on gorilla KPF's once Brown is gone. He's pretty much the Darling/Patton forward.

Whereas the Suns already have a surplus of KPP players. We would rate Martin as the best, simply because we have the KPP prospects sorted and ready to roll. Granted we have good young midfielders already, but you can load up on more of them and have a very good side. There's only a certain amount of KPP's you can put on the deck at once though.

I wouldn't say Martin has 'issues', though his Father sounds like one of the super protective sorts which could lead to problems. Already he has said that if Martin is picked up by a club that won't benefit Martin's development, he will stay in WA for the year. As an indigenous player from WA that is close to family, Martin will likely have the same rumours surrounding him that Harley did. Returning home, etc etc. But I think Harley, Harbrow, Patrick and Hunt could make him feel at home.

I would assume that our open publicity in 2011 with Harley and the way he got through it to star in 2012 would be a plus. It seems on a personal level, Martin seems much more mature then Harley was when he was first drafter, and there is 12 months in age difference between the two (age of being drafted).

I'd like to think if we got him, Martin senior will look to the examples we set with Harley/Hunt/Harbrow and see that there is a lot of potential, not only for personal growth but also for his football career

Here is to hoping

 

[POBT]

I do agree the system is partially flawed. Maybe there needs to be a system in place where we can use up to a certain amount of mature age top up players, but only after a certain quota (maybe 6?) 17 year olds have been used.

The issue tends to be that the AFLQ don't want a situation where the other Qld NEAFL clubs lose their better players to the reserves sides for the AFL clubs. If you were a quality State league footballer with AFL aspirations, you'd probably jump at the chance to train and play with either the Suns or the Lions. Better coaching, medical/fitness staff, facilities etc plus you are right under the nose of those who count. That could hit the NEAFL clubs hard if they started to lose their best players as "top ups" for the Suns/Lions reserves. Hence, the top ups tend to be youngsters who, if they aren't drafted, can return to their local club the next year with hopefully some additional development under their belts.

It does mean that injuries hit the Suns/Lions reserves really hard in that the replacements for injured players aren't anywhere near the same quality.

 

[SUNS]

Thanks for that insight into the way it works POBT . When you put it like that it does make a lot of sense, and is good for the long term future of the NEAFL

 

[Sunny_]

The wildcard in this has suddenly become Brennan.

Will we delist him at the end of the year to give us another valuable list-spot? It could save us from getting someone we really don't want to, such as Magin or Flanagan. Those guys that have the talent and could probably make it.

Important to note is that we have possibly paid out the majority of his contract at this point in time. I imagine it would have been front-loaded, so we could be only due to pay him 300k or so next year. Whether a trade, de-list or what happens I don't know, but it's suddenly become a possibility IMO.

 

[bballscout]

Keep him as training bait/depth player unless a surprise trade offer looms. I'd like to see him move on this time next year same time as c.brown but support whatever the club does.

 

[Sunny_]

Bluey quite firm in saying he won't be traded. Article here.

 

[bballscout]

Not much will change wih 2 games to go, how I see the list panning out post season:

Definite delistees:

Moss
Fraser
Krakouer

Likely delistees/cheap trade bait:

Magin (I like him but cant be moved back to rookie list and limited list space)
Jolly (Could get picked up by Port?)
Flanagan (too light, hasnt developed)
Hine (Plays dirty, wayyy down depth charts)
Hutchins (Can only play lock down defender and lacks size for that role)

50/50 propositions that hold no trade value:

Iles (sound player but not rated/off contract)
Patrick (no place for him in team when fully fit)
AHall (only has 1 year contract, likely retention though)
Stanley (as above)

On the block, guys that are sought after:

Weller (may flourish elsewhere, cant play in the mids at suns)
Nicholls (huge prospect, long term afl player)
Caddy (as above, may stay yet)
Toy (Holds value for the right team)
Gorringe (Only to be used in a Tippett trade)

Horsely, McQualtar, JHall all to be retained as rookies, Coad to leave.

Your thoughts? Anyone on the outer I have missed? Who will survive the cull of the above players?

Above is what I think the club has drawn up, below is what I would personally do:

Delist:

Moss
Fraser
Krakouer
Flanagan (re rookie if available)
Jolly (re rookie if available)
Hine
Hutchins
Iles (unlucky but not in long term plans/structure)

Trade: Weller, Nicholls, Toy
Also, I am calling we dont get Tippett and retain Caddy/Gorringe. Magin/Patrick survive cull as I like what they offer.

This moves 11 players off the senior list and leaves 7 vacancies.

In coming are O'Meara + 3 relatively high draft picks. Leaves 3 final spots open, perhaps elevate the horse and bring in 2 cheap mature bodies like Hooker/Silvagni.

Your thoughts? Would certainly progress the list while keeping the core group together.

 

[Scotty_222]

they deff need some mature bodies helping with the depth.
and a few picks within the draft. i think getting martin in the mini draft
will help not having to have him on the list, potential future gun

 

[TheJaegerBomb]

Above is what I think the club has drawn up, below is what I would personally do:

Delist:

Moss
Fraser
Krakouer
Flanagan (re rookie if available)
Jolly (re rookie if available)
Hine
Hutchins
Iles (unlucky but not in long term plans/structure)

Trade: Weller, Nicholls, Toy
Also, I am calling we dont get Tippett and retain Caddy/Gorringe. Magin/Patrick survive cull as I like what they offer.

This moves 11 players off the senior list and leaves 7 vacancies.

In coming are O'Meara + 3 relatively high draft picks. Leaves 3 final spots open, perhaps elevate the horse and bring in 2 cheap mature bodies like Hooker/Silvagni.

Your thoughts? Would certainly progress the list while keeping the core group together.

What your predicting sounds far more realistic then some things people have proposed. Tippett definitely a chance though.

 

[moonshine]

Why would we delist one of our better players Sam Iles 2010 best and fairest winner ,He was playing in the top 3 or 4 before being dropped, must be Bluey's whipping boy .We need these players with great ball skills older, wiser[not flashy types] to help bring our younger boys up to the required level the Suns List managers need to think long and hard before we throw out the older babies with the bath water.
in for the long haul go the suns
moonshine

 

[Dammit]

Cool first post moonshine . Welcome.

I agree that Iles must be kept on. Yes, obviously we want him to be surpassed, but this will come naturally.

 

[Max Rockatansky]

Why would we delist one of our better players Sam Iles 2010 best and fairest winner ,He was playing in the top 3 or 4 before being dropped, must be Bluey's whipping boy .We need these players with great ball skills older, wiser[not flashy types] to help bring our younger boys up to the required level the Suns List managers need to think long and hard before we throw out the older babies with the bath water.
in for the long haul go the suns
moonshine

Very good question. I have no idea why Iles fell out of favuor. He seemed pretty solid in some of the games we got smashed in. Keeps his head under presure. Probably quite cheap too ..

 

[Turbocat]

Imo , if you delist a Geelong Falcon like Flanagan , geelong will serious look at the kid as he will not have to be drafted , he becomes a FA. He can walk to any club that wants him and he finds acceptable. So someone like Flanagan would suit Geelong nicely.

From an outsiders POV , I think trading your R2 to GWS is probably a bit of sweet and sour. You give your main rival an armchair ride to top up with Grundy. Perhaps if your a chance to trade back in later on to get Wines etc you can have a huge win. You may trade a couple of players you may want to keep but you get Martin fro next year , Omera is already shown how good he can be , if Martin shows the same huge win. Then add a couple younger mids and you really are starting to look balanced and extremely talented in the midfield for the future.

 

[CQSUN]

Personally i would like to see Flanagan given a better chance at the SUNS. I am also not too keen on trading p2 for the MD. Martin hasn't shown that he is anything spectacular like O'Meara and in my mind he is a bigger risk, maybe if we had the p4 it would be a bit different but with p2 i think there are kids with equal or higher talent in this draft.

On another note, where do people see Wilkinson's future? He hasn't had to much said about him but he has had a pretty good go at it and hasn't shown too much.

 

[Turbocat]

Personally i would like to see Flanagan given a better chance at the SUNS. I am also not too keen on trading p2 for the MD. Martin hasn't shown that he is anything spectacular like O'Meara and in my mind he is a bigger risk, maybe if we had the p4 it would be a bit different but with p2 i think there are kids with equal or higher talent in this draft.

On another note, where do people see Wilkinson's future? He hasn't had to much said about him but he has had a pretty good go at it and hasn't shown too much.

Just watching your team last night , several of your borderline players beating Carlton. Was that a advertisement or what. Several showed enough to say , hey he might be alright. But where was Flanagan? Injured? If he is fit and can't get a game it just seems he would be prime for a delist. Toy played but did nothing. Caddy on the other hand , can see him getting what you paid for him.

As far as p2 , if you look at the draft most think that its Whitfield, Grundy and then the rest. GWS probably would be happy with either. Currently I think it would be a poor choice to take Grundy but if you really rate him and want to keep p2 & dont really rate the miniD, id say it would be prudent to trade ruck or two.
Trade into the draft withe trades for Caddy, Nicholls and maybe Gorringe. Then you keep p2 take Grundy and a couple of in and unders like Wines. To me thats win,win and it doesn't give more players to GWS , a side that will be a pain to your success in the future.

 

[CQSUN]

Flanagan played last night, was pretty quite but cant expect a huge amount from a player in his second game.

 

[Turbocat]

Flanagan played last night, was pretty quite but cant expect a huge amount from a player in his second game.

Yes just checked the stats and I saw he played.

 

[TheSunGod]

After last night's game I'm giving up trying to predict who is staying and who is leaving. Maybe, just maybe time will tell we weren't missing 13 of our best 22. Taylor Hine is improving with every game (still needs to keep working on his disposal), Rat Magin etc. I'm glad it's Bluey, Clayton and Co making these decisions not me. Flanagan did a couple of nice things too - he can kick a football, and Josh Toy's tackle created the turnover that lead to our last goal, I will be surprised if I'm not surprised when some of the de-listees are named.

 

[Mrs Mercuri]

How many spots do you guys have to make available before the draft?

BTW- overjoyed you beat the Blues last night

 

[Sunny_]

How many spots do you guys have to make available before the draft?

BTW- overjoyed you beat the Blues last night

4 spots, meaning we get rid of at least 8.

Word on the street is that we'll be ditching as many as 10. A few senior players in the mix too.