NFL 2012 NFL - Week 14

[Big Red Machine]

... thought they may bring this guy back !!!

I posted this on my facebook the other week after watching Ted, Seems quite relevant now.

 

[Starburns_]

Big 4 weeks for Flacco. According to ESPN has the worst completion percentage on throws more than 10 yards downfield this season (40.3 percent). Has overthrown more receivers than most over 15 yards.

If he wants big pass plays he should just dump it short to Ray Rice, seems to work quite well.

I don't get the whole playing a replay while a live game is on, but channel 10 is in the s**ter. The NFL should be on free to air, but its looking more and more like it will be a cable only option in the not too distant future.

Makes no sense for it to not be on FTA, it's not like it's taking up a spot in prime time. It's perfect content since the digital channels came along as it provides an alternative to f***ing breakfast TV shows.

Problem is even the basics are difficult to understand for a new observer (much like how our game must be to someone from overseas), it takes more effort to pick it up on your own, and some people CBF. So the TV audience isn't really likely to grow dramatically.

 

[Woodson]

Problem is even the basics are difficult to understand for a new observer (much like how our game must be to someone from overseas), it takes more effort to pick it up on your own, and some people CBF. So the TV audience isn't really likely to grow dramatically.

The CANCER in both leagues is the dreaded 'interpretation of the rules' licence for officials/ umpires to "HAZARD A F***** GUESS" at will.

HATE HATE HATE Accountability in sloppy umpiring/ officiating = non existent.

No wonder the new viewer for either code can no longer understand 'WHY is that call so different to another call" that is BASICALLY the SAME F***** THING!! Now SHIT FOR BRAINS Goodell is considering eliminating KICK-OFFS. I will applaud / celebrate the assassination of this cretin.

 

[Starburns_]

The CANCER in both leagues is the dreaded 'interpretation of the rules' licence for offfials/ umpires to "HAZARD A F***** GUESS" at will.

HATE HATE HATE Accountability in sloppy umpiring/ officiating = non existent.

No wonder the new viewer for either code can understand 'WHY is that call so different to another call" that is BASICALLY the SAME F***** THING!! Now SHIT FOR BRAINS Goodell is considering eliminating KICK-OFFS. I will applaud / celebrate the assassination of this cretin.

They both have too many grey areas to be completely black and white though (even a game as simple as soccer still has it's grey areas, just less of them), the issue is consistency, and as you said, accountability. Goodell and Demetriou don't bother to address the problem because their games are growing and they know most people will still watch anyway, it'll take a lot of straws to break the typical fan's back. Adrian Anderson has left the AFL though, so there is hope.

I umpired Australian football games for close to 10 years (and probably still would, except I'm not supposed to do any running), it's difficult and people will always hate some of the calls you make. But the easiest way to do it right is (once again, as you mentioned) to not guess, and stick to the obvious stuff, as soon as you start paying the minor infringements, you set a precendent. Absolute consistency across multiple officials, through an entire season, is virtually impossible. Consistency through a single game is easily attainable, yet we don't even have that in either sport.

Funnily enough, I've always managed to make a case for the job the AFL umpires do, due to having a certain neutrality, couldn't do it in 2012, their performance was pathetic. Haven't been watching the NFL nearly as long, though the performance from these refs hardly seems an upgrade on those terrible replacements.

 

[Woodson]

But the easiest way to do it right is (once again, as you mentioned) to not guess, and stick to the obvious stuff, as soon as you start paying the minor infringements, you set a precendent. Absolute consistency across multiple officials, through an entire season, is virtually impossible. Consistency through a single game is easily attainable, yet we don't even have that in either sport.

Funnily enough, I've always managed to make a case for the job the AFL umpires do, due to having a certain neutrality, couldn't do it in 2012, their performance was pathetic. Haven't been watching the NFL nearly as long, though the performance from these refs hardly seems an upgrade on those terrible replacements.

Having officiated in the Victorian Gridiron Football League for several seasons, the standard was 'the standard' and anything less was unacceptable. Sure a few botched called occurred... the most funny one was the Treasurer signalling a TOUCHDOWN as the RB crossed the 20/ redzone.. man, was I in stitches with laughter!! Inadvertent whistle will occur once in a blue moon (yes, It happened to me ONCE!!) and boy, was I embarrassed to BLOW that call!! But really, aside the occasional over officiating by my colleagues back in the day to stop HEATED situations from escalating, it was a near perfect system where I was nailing off-sides/ false starts / holding with no second guessing required. My eye sight was damn good back in the day. The best part of gameday was the pre-game meeting where we addressed team plays / trick plays given up by team coaches. How we could counter/ be on top of things continually. To make quick smart decisions was paramount and make clean/ short and confident decisions were clearly executed without a fuss for many games. Heck, even players & coaches were coming to us after the game to THANK US for GREAT OFFICIATING !!! That's what made it a complete experience.

I still have no doubt that our efficient system could manage a pro-game. We actually officiated a US High School game down Geelong which, let me tell you, the 'Professionalism/ tightness' of the teams was clearly evident with these teams. Intensity can only be measured with what you see from individuals contributing as a TEAM. Brilliant stuff. I recall Ben Graham being in attendance that very day. Another LEVEL above STATE CHAMPIONSHIPS (which I got elected to be side judge in the Inaugural State Championships back in 1996 / Canberra). Our Vic Bowl Games are another highlight which demonstrated the organised way we focussed and make every effort to make QUALITY CALLS at every opportunity. It was a great experience to be part of. Bottom line to great officiating is COMMUNICATION and BEING on the SAME PAGE!

 

[Starburns_]

Having officiated in the Victorian Gridiron Football League for several seasons, the standard was 'the standard' and anything less was unacceptable. Sure a few botched called occurred... the most funny one was the Treasurer signalling a TOUCHDOWN as the RB crossed the 20/ redzone.. man, was I in stitches with laughter!! Inadvertent whistle will occur once in a blue moon (yes, It happened to me ONCE!!) and boy, was I embarrassed to BLOW that call!! But really, aside the occasional over officiating by my colleagues back in the day to stop HEATED situations from escalating, it was a near perfect system where I was nailing off-sides/ false starts / holding with no second guessing required. My eye sight was damn good back in the day. The best part of gameday was the pre-game meeting where we addressed team plays / trick plays given up by team coaches. How we could counter/ be on top of things continually. To make quick smart decisions was paramount and make clean/ short and confident decisions were clearly executed without a fuss for many games. Heck, even players & coaches were coming to us after the game to THANK US for GREAT OFFICIATING !!! That's what made it a complete experience.

I still have no doubt that our efficient system could manage a pro-game. We actually officiated a US High School game down Geelong which, let me tell you, the 'Professionalism/ tightness' of the teams was clearly evident with these teams. Intensity can only be measured with what you see from individuals contributing as a TEAM. Brilliant stuff. I recall Ben Graham being in attendance that very day. Another LEVEL above STATE CHAMPIONSHIPS (which I got elected to be side judge in the Inaugural State Championships back in 1996 / Canberra). Our Vic Bowl Games are another highlight which demonstrated the organised way we focussed and make every effort to make QUALITY CALLS at every opportunity. It was a great experience to be part of. Bottom line to great officiating is COMMUNICATION and BEING on the SAME PAGE!

Haha, that's awesome about the touchdown signal. I would occassionally blow my whistle in anticipation of a bloke taking a mark then he drops a sitter, but it's rarely a problem if you react properly and decisively. Admitting mistakes is half the battle, feedback is always better when you officiate like a human being who makes mistakes, instead of some kind of robot who is always right. Knowing you've done a good job is a great feeling, but it's even better when it's acknowledged by those with a vested interest. I once did a game where I thought I'd had a pretty good one, was capped though by an ex-AFL umpire telling me afterwards it was basically flawless (was only an under 13s game or something which made it easier, but I'll take it ).

Decision-making is a strangely underrated skill, AFL umpires don't get the gig because they can't run the tan in a ridiculously fast time, or because they can't bounce the ball, neither are that important. Is there anything in particular in officiating an American football game that makes progressing through the ranks purely on decision-making ability more difficult?

 

[Woodson]

Decision-making is a strangely underrated skill, AFL umpires don't get the gig because they can't run the tan in a ridiculously fast time, or because they can't bounce the ball, neither are that important. Is there anything in particular in officiating an American football game that makes progressing through the ranks purely on decision-making ability more difficult?

I agree that decision-making is a strangely underrated skill. From my experience, having the basics down pat to where you need to be to SEE the RIGHT angle/ a wider angle and determining in the blink of an eye if that incident / infraction was a high possibility of affecting the play is what 'making a decision is all about' rather than think that the player should of played in a certain manner to get a better advantage of his opponent which I think is far too re-active and nothing to do with properly officiating. It's like the DPI calls... was the ball there before the opposing player interferred or is it better to just allow a split second of 'benefit of the doubt' as simultaneous contact is IMPOSSIBLE to detect with the naked eye. That's where 'Hazard a guess' goes all wrong because of the re-active officiating. If you don't/ can't see that, why bother calling it? So what if a guy falls over... anybody can FAKE a fall. I can fake an injury that was 'academy award stuff' just to sell my story to take the day off to WATCH the SUPER BOWL.. man, the limping was better than a guy with a limp!!

I was given a tip early in my rookie days as a VGFL official and that was, if you didn't see it, regardless of what you 'think happened' don't call it. Missed calls are going to happen moreso than not because it's impossible to pinpoint every infraction worthy of a penalty but when you second guess yourself, you're more likely to get it wrong because you didn't really see it.

 

[Galactic]

Guess that's why most get Gamepass as its pretty moderately priced for what you get! Cable has only 5 game coverage really compared to 2 on free to air, oneHD is just going down the shitter though gets worse every year

Yes indeed but free to air provides opportunities for people who wouldn't normally get or pay for cable/on demand coverage.

 

[Galactic]

If he wants big pass plays he should just dump it short to Ray Rice, seems to work quite well.



Makes no sense for it to not be on FTA, it's not like it's taking up a spot in prime time. It's perfect content since the digital channels came along as it provides an alternative to f***ing breakfast TV shows.

Problem is even the basics are difficult to understand for a new observer (much like how our game must be to someone from overseas), it takes more effort to pick it up on your own, and some people CBF. So the TV audience isn't really likely to grow dramatically.

For the NFL to take off here, I think its best shot is - any Australian/ex AFL player involvement, free to air coverage and Madden games. A big problem is the time difference as you mentioned, being a work morning here when its all happening. Yet its season is perfect as it starts at the end of AFL NRL seasons.. In my experience the biggest complaint about NFL from most clueless Australians (Melbourne) is it isn't fast enough for them.Which is amusing considering the same people saying this, don't even watch it.. They want sport to be fast or like AFL or EPL or they lose interest. Fast is the NE no huddle??! Now thats fast!.. but of coarse they wouldn't even identify. Its tough its come along way here but boy its got some ways to go to and ONE had an opportunity and they blew it. Only the NFL can push it properly here but their sites are on England atm. Australians who follow the NFL are the best we got and Ive given up trying to get people here to get it. If you want to follow you'll find a way. This forum is exactly where you want it but 90% of the traffic here probably doesnt know about or care to come in here. Oh well! Their loss!

 

[Galactic]

Now SHIT FOR BRAINS Goodell is considering eliminating KICK-OFFS. I will applaud / celebrate the assassination of this cretin.

Well I hope the fan backlash from even the thought of making that move would be RG's undoing.

 

[tb_fanboy]

Surely not. Onsides are one of the most exciting things of NFL. Oh and I can't Remember where I heard it, and it was obviously a joke but I'm starting to like the theory that the Jets only got tebow because he embarrassed them last year and their plan this whole time was to make him suffer in the backup position the whole season. Can't wait to see him in a Jags uniform and let's hope he embarrasses the Jets again.

 

[Starburns_]

For the NFL to take off here, I think its best shot is - any Australian/ex AFL player involvement, free to air coverage and Madden games. A big problem is the time difference as you mentioned, being a work morning here when its all happening. Yet its season is perfect as it starts at the end of AFL NRL seasons.. In my experience the biggest complaint about NFL from most clueless Australians (Melbourne) is it isn't fast enough for them.Which is amusing considering the same people saying this, don't even watch it.. They want sport to be fast or like AFL or EPL or they lose interest. Fast is the NE no huddle??! Now thats fast!.. but of coarse they wouldn't even identify. Its tough its come along way here but boy its got some ways to go to and ONE had an opportunity and they blew it. Only the NFL can push it properly here but their sites are on England atm. Australians who follow the NFL are the best we got and Ive given up trying to get people here to get it. If you want to follow you'll find a way. This forum is exactly where you want it but 90% of the traffic here probably doesnt know about or care to come in here. Oh well! Their loss!

It's true it isn't fast, but neither is cricket, which is basically Australia's truly national game, so that argument is kind of crap, just a convenient excuse really. There's not much point the NFL pushing the game here either, we're a small country with an already saturated sporting market. As bad as ONE have been recently, they tried early on, it just didn't take off as much as they'd hoped it would (though covering the superbowl with Dave Hughes and wasting time on the ads instead of properly explaining the game doesn't help). It sucks to seem them slackening their coverage though, surely they weren't naive enough to think interest would pick up overnight.

Oh and I can't Remember where I heard it, and it was obviously a joke but I'm starting to like the theory that the Jets only got tebow because he embarrassed them last year and their plan this whole time was to make him suffer in the backup position the whole season.

Were they to do that, I'd hate to see what they'd do to Sanchez for him embarrassing them for much of the past 2 years.

I agree that decision-making is a strangely underrated skill. From my experience, having the basics down pat to where you need to be to SEE the RIGHT angle/ a wider angle and determining in the blink of an eye if that incident / infraction was a high possibility of affecting the play is what 'making a decision is all about' rather than think that the player should of played in a certain manner to get a better advantage of his opponent which I think is far too re-active and nothing to do with properly officiating. It's like the DPI calls... was the ball there before the opposing player interferred or is it better to just allow a split second of 'benefit of the doubt' as simultaneous contact is IMPOSSIBLE to detect with the naked eye. That's where 'Hazard a guess' goes all wrong because of the re-active officiating.

PI has been a joke this year. The mindset to officiating has almost switched from benefit of the doubt to "call it just in case, better to make a mistake by throwing a flag, than make a mistake by not throwing one".

 

[MarcusP2]

Surely not. Onsides are one of the most exciting things of NFL. Oh and I can't Remember where I heard it, and it was obviously a joke but I'm starting to like the theory that the Jets only got tebow because he embarrassed them last year and their plan this whole time was to make him suffer in the backup position the whole season. Can't wait to see him in a Jags uniform and let's hope he embarrasses the Jets again.

Theory I heard was it would be a 4th and 15 from some spot on the field...if you want the ball back you have to complete a 15 yard play. Probably more chance of that than an expected onside.

 

[tb_fanboy]

Theory I heard was it would be a 4th and 15 from some spot on the field...if you want the ball back you have to complete a 15 yard play. Probably more chance of that than an expected onside.

Yeah I know. Just won't be the same. At least with kick offs the other team gets a chance. You could have Manning or Brady running the score up much easier if all they have to do is complete a 15 pass.

 

[Galactic]

It's true it isn't fast, but neither is cricket, which is basically Australia's truly national game, so that argument is kind of crap, just a convenient excuse really. There's not much point the NFL pushing the game here either, we're a small country with an already saturated sporting market. As bad as ONE have been recently, they tried early on, it just didn't take off as much as they'd hoped it would (though covering the superbowl with Dave Hughes and wasting time on the ads instead of properly explaining the game doesn't help). It sucks to seem them slackening their coverage though, surely they weren't naive enough to think interest would pick up overnight.

Good point. Cricket is very slow. It is a crap argument, but I've heard it multiple times. Yes we are a insignificant audience to the NFL, but it would be nice to have FTA networks here take it seriously. One did have the right idea, but the execution was terrible and it looks like there financial situation isn't promising. No idea what the NFL ratings are on a Monday morning at 3/5am-1/3pm, but as you said what else is on??.. I remember early on (2009) at times their add breaks didn't fit the game breaks, so you'd get ad's during play and coverage during US breaks. Then of coarse there was the local coverage of the SB with half the panel consisting of clueless AFL commentators ....I remember those guys from SEN on there with the task of actually trying to make sense of it. It was laughable. I'd be happy if ONE just played 3 games live each week and the Thursday night game. Just as they were.. It's just hard to love ONE when suddenly without warning golf/swimming/replays, replace live Football.Either do it right or don't do it. Its just a shame cause its totally possible.

 

[Beetlebum]

I think you'll beat the Texans, they're due for a loss, and it's been how long since the Pats lost @ Gillette in Dec?

At home in December, from memory it was the Jets in 2002. Can't remember losing any at Foxboro since then. We don't lose too many in December anywhere..

 

[kaiserchief13]

It's coming to that time again fellas. What a treat the playoffs are shaping up to be. What are everyone's Super Bowl match up tips as of today? Each team has showed a few flaws with many teams from each conference that can make a run

AFC - Texans def Broncos
NFC - Bears over Redskins (Think they wont lose another game from now until then)

Texans over Bears

 

[tb_fanboy]

AFC - Broncos def Houston
NFC - Bears def Atlanta/SF

Broncos def Bears 24 - 23 off a last minute Prater FG

Peyton - 21/34 - 276 yd 2 TDs 1 int and mvp....at least I hope

 

[exe ex machina]

AFC - Texans
NFC - Falcons

Most boring Super Bowl of all time.

Otherwise, it'll be something unusual like

AFC - Bengals
NFC - Niners

Been tipping that Part 3 match-up for over 10 years.

 

[GreyWind]

AFC - Texans
NFC - Falcons

Most boring Super Bowl of all time.

Otherwise, it'll be something unusual like

AFC - Bengals
NFC - Niners

Been tipping that Part 3 match-up for over 10 years.

Doubtful. I would take any of the Packers, Giants, 49ers or Bears over the Falcons.

 

[exe ex machina]

Falcons look up and down all year. But they've been on a quest this year. They've still been winning those scratchy games. They're just tuning up for the important post-season. Winning games they should win somehow, keep healthy, steady as it goes, not peak too soon.

They 'should' have been in a super bowl a couple years ago. They've been a consistent top performer in the regular season for consecutive years now, first time in their history they had a winning record in consecutive years. Matt Ryan has been bulking up. The Falcons went hard for Julio, wanting more receiver weapons a la Packers (who stole the Lombardi from them -- in their eyes -- with that approach). When playoffs come....the Falcons will look to be hitting the right form to make a charge, Ryan getting the monkey off his back in the process.

Put it this way...if Ryan and the Falcons can win that first playoff game hoodoo...they'll go all the way to New Orleans.

 

[GreyWind]

It seems though when the play-offs happen the Falcons don't go to that next level that other teams have shown they can hit. While they 'should' have been in the Super Bowl in 2010 they failed to show up against the Packers who rolled right through them, the Giants did the same thing. I just think that out of all the play-off calibre teams in the NFC the Falcons are the one that most coaches would want to play against.

 

[Broken]

I think their game against the Giants next week will tell us more about the Falcons credentials. I think Atlanta record flatters them a bit at the moment.

I'm going with Broncos or Patriots in the AFC and Packers in the NFC. I'm not ruling out the Giants and I'm hoping the Redskins are the 'get hot at the right time' playoff team this season.

 

[exe ex machina]

The Falcons know that. That's why they're on a quest this year to fix that, to come away with silverware.

That's what I mean by -- if they can manage to win that first playoff game, then watch out, they'll break the drought, and keep going, believe. If they don't, then okay, they're the same choking Falcons of the last few years.

I kinda compare this Falcons team last few years to the reign the Eagles had under Reid for about 7 years or so, when they were consistently the best team, but kept failing to make the Super Bowl. Managed to get there once. And a decade later, have nothing to really show for it except being one of the best teams of the last decade 'that never was'.

The Falcons have that same look of either being the next great team 'that never was', or they'll finally vindicate it and win a couple of SB's in the next 10 years.

 

[GreyWind]

I think their game against the Giants next week will tell us more about the Falcons credentials. I think Atlanta record flatters them a bit at the moment.

I'm going with Broncos or Patriots in the AFC and Packers in the NFC. I'm not ruling out the Giants and I'm hoping the Redskins are the 'get hot at the right time' playoff team this season.

As much as I want it to be us in no way will the Packers be winning the NFC. We have no running game, we have no O-line and we keep sustaining injuries to key players. As good as Rodgers is with the way this season is turning out we wouldn't be able to beat strong defensive teams in the 49ers, Giants and potentially Seattle (regular season has already proved this, well apart from Seattle ). It's amazing we are still in a good position considering our injuries, I mean just this year Bishop, Quarless and Sherrod all haven't played, Smith, Benson, Bulaga and Perry are all on IR, then Matthews, Woodson, Jennings and Shields have all missed significant time and now Lang is banged up. So that's 2 starting MLBs, starting RB, starting RT, starting LOLB all on IR with our starting ROLB, starting S, starting WR, starting CB and now starting LG all missing significant time. Which showed against a quality opponent in the Giants and will again in the play-offs.

Snip

Yep, I get where you're coming from, but when I look at all the play-off teams there isn't anything that jumps out at me when looking at the Falcons and makes me fear them compared to the others. They are a very solid football team but I don't think they are anything more than that.