List Mgmt. 2013 Draft Discussion

[Sunshine Saint]

Anyone know why Carl Petersen is training with them?

Saints have invited a number of Sandringham players down to train with the club as part of the relationship with them. Sandy apparently are after Peterson, so Saints train on, is part of this if reports on our forum are correct.

 

[the dog's kennel]

Honest question, which of our young possible mids are poor/mediocre kicks?
The only players I have genuine concerns about are Stevens, Wallis and Smith (although I think his smarts counteract this). The rest look fine to excellent.

I don't think any of the youngsters are poor kicks, with the possible exception of Smith every now and then. But in my view none of them are particularly good kicks. Depending on your definitions they are all mediocre or at best average when it comes to precision passing through (or over) the zone. Hunter is the one I thought a bit about - cause he is a pretty good kick over short distances. But not so much over 40m+.

Apart from that - Stringer, MacRae, Hrovat, Libba, JJ - all of them are great players in the making I feel. And all of them have great smarts. And all of them score a pass mark with their kicking. That's why I used the word "mediocre", not "poor". They will all play valuable roles in our team, and could be potential AAs. But compare their passing to Suckling or Guerra (or Gilbee!) Not even close. We need SOMEONE to deliver those killer passes out of the backline and into the forward line. It is such a vital skill in modern footy. You can't just pop the ball to advantage in one-on-one contests and hope for the best. It needs to be centimetre perfect. And I don't know who will do that for us once Murphy and (at his best) Higgins are gone.

We had a golden opportunity to address that this year. And we've chosen another "kick to advantage" merchant. Solid. Just like the rest.

But hey, I guess we can agree to disagree. Hope you're right, mike!

P.S. I do like that we're drafting quality hard workers. Bontempelli seems like a good fellow, who will provide us with some great footy. I think this will be a fun team to support over the years. But like I said, I'm just worried that if we don't get the balance right, we'll fall short. AGAIN.

 

[yebiga]

I actually question whether Bontempelli is a bigger risk then Aish. If Aish doesn't improve his inside game and work ethic he may not even make it. Bontempelli has a ripper attitude and work ethic by all reports. He's coming from further back but I believe he should make it with his level of attitude and work ethic combined with his talent. Aish should make it too, but I'm not absolutely convinced. He has more runs on the board, but that doesn't mean much as he does have some things that he really needs to work on.

And I really don't see this as "we're the smartest in the room mentality" like 2009. Howard should've been picked in the rookie draft IMO, he certainly didn't belong in the first round. Bontempelli I think is well deserving of going top 10, I don't think he should be going top 5 but I won't be burning down Whitten Oval when/if he comes here. He's certainly not my first preference, but that's still ok.

But if we are looking at bontempelli can someone tell me what other than a centimetre does he have over kolodjashnji
Answer these questions?
Who is quicker?
Who kicks better?
Who gets more of the ball?
Who marks better?
Who jumps higher?
Who has more class?

If we want a classy 55-60 metre kick who can deliver with precision - its kolo

How does anyone come to the conclusion bontempelli is a better option?

What am I missing here.

Goodness me, marcus would need to have the motivation of a jihadist and kolo must be apathetic

 

[Norm De Guerre]

And if Stringer, Macrae, and Hrovat end up the equivalent of Voss, Black and Lappin?

Your only as good as your last draft selections apparently.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

But if we are looking at bontempelli can someone tell me what other than a centimetre does he have over kolodjashnji

In my opinion:

Who is quicker?

Kolodjashnij.

Who kicks better?

Under pressure? Bontempelli.
In clean air? Kolodjashnij.

Who gets more of the ball?

Bontempelli.

Who marks better?

Bontempelli.

Who jumps higher?

Kolodjashnij.

Who has more class?

Depends how you define 'class' as it's a concept that gets thrown around from all angles.

Bontempelli's also probably better one on one.

 

[Super Hans]

I get the feeling some people will just say they want any player just to be different to everyone else.

 

[Chris Grant]

But if we are looking at bontempelli can someone tell me what other than a centimetre does he have over kolodjashnji
Answer these questions?
Who is quicker?
Who kicks better?
Who gets more of the ball?
Who marks better?
Who jumps higher?
Who has more class?

If we want a classy 55-60 metre kick who can deliver with precision - its kolo

How does anyone come to the conclusion bontempelli is a better option?

What am I missing here.

Goodness me, marcus would need to have the motivation of a jihadist and kolo must be apathetic

Dannnnnnnnnn summed it up pretty well. The only thing I don't agree on is KK does get more of the ball.

For what it's worth I do agree with you, I'd pick KK over Bontempelli.

 

[immortalmike]

I don't think any of the youngsters are poor kicks, with the possible exception of Smith every now and then. But in my view none of them are particularly good kicks. Depending on your definitions they are all mediocre or at best average when it comes to precision passing through (or over) the zone. Hunter is the one I thought a bit about - cause he is a pretty good kick over short distances. But not so much over 40m+.

Apart from that - Stringer, MacRae, Hrovat, Libba, JJ - all of them are great players in the making I feel. And all of them have great smarts. And all of them score a pass mark with their kicking. That's why I used the word "mediocre", not "poor". They will all play valuable roles in our team, and could be potential AAs. But compare their passing to Suckling or Guerra (or Gilbee!) Not even close. We need SOMEONE to deliver those killer passes out of the backline and into the forward line. It is such a vital skill in modern footy. You can't just pop the ball to advantage in one-on-one contests and hope for the best. It needs to be centimetre perfect. And I don't know who will do that for us once Murphy and (at his best) Higgins are gone.

We had a golden opportunity to address that this year. And we've chosen another "kick to advantage" merchant. Solid. Just like the rest.

But hey, I guess we can agree to disagree. Hope you're right, mike!

We might have to agree to disagree, as I feel the bolded have the potential to be entirely elite kicks. Some would argue that Libba and JJ are already getting there. Remember Gilbee wasn't anywhere close to elite until around season 4, especially under pressure. Also on Hunter, kicking depth can be improved, have a look at Murph early days, kicking really lacked penetration and was loopy as all hell.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Dannnnnnnnnn summed it up pretty well. The only thing I don't agree on is KK does get more of the ball.

For what it's worth I do agree with you, I'd pick KK over Bontempelli.

Hmm fair point, his stats back you up on that one. Bontempelli (FFS, going with Bont from now on) works harder for his disposals though imo and I think once he works on that inside game a bit more and KK transitions to a wing Bont will get more of it. That's speculation though.

I'd take KK over Bont for our side too but I think Bont has greater room for improvement. No slight on KK though; I think he'll develop into a mighty fine wingman. Really don't like him off a back flank as much as others though.

 

[Chris Grant]

Wouldn't mind Lang and that rumour's been floating around for a while. His injury makes me sick just thinking about it though. He basically dislocated his ankle...then broke it while dislocated. Pretty awful.

As for Nankervis...someone get me that wrestler "NO" gif.

That is pretty sick. I guess it's mostly up to the medical staff. If we pick him I'm guessing he won't play until mid season.

 

[Scary_Foot_9]

I don't think any of the youngsters are poor kicks, with the possible exception of Smith every now and then. But in my view none of them are particularly good kicks. Depending on your definitions they are all mediocre or at best average when it comes to precision passing through (or over) the zone. Hunter is the one I thought a bit about - cause he is a pretty good kick over short distances. But not so much over 40m+.

For mine Nath Hrovat is a very good kick, not sure he's elite, cause he can't kick over fifty reliably, but as precision goes to a leading forward inside the fifty, he's great.

 

[the dog's kennel]

We might have to agree to disagree, as I feel the bolded have the potential to be entirely elite kicks. Some would argue that Libba and JJ are already getting there. Remember Gilbee wasn't anywhere close to elite until around season 4, especially under pressure. Also on Hunter, kicking depth can be improved, have a look at Murph early days, kicking really lacked penetration and was loopy as all hell.

Fair enough. I must admit I don't remember Murph: the early years (even though I was there for them! Memory getting a little faded). And it's true I'm not considering the potential for their kicking to improve over the years. I hope you're right about their future development, mike. No-one would be happier than me if you are!

 

[yebiga]

In my opinion:


Kolodjashnij.


Under pressure? Bontempelli.
In clean air? Kolodjashnij.


Bontempelli.


Bontempelli.


Kolodjashnij.


Depends how you define 'class' as it's a concept that gets thrown around from all angles.

Bontempelli's also probably better one on one.

All the stats favour, support kolo as consistently getting more possessions.
I have not seen either live but not a single bompelli long kick actually appears to hit any target - and these are. His highlights
On the flip side everyone of kolo s kicks are precise ands long kicks which give the forward every chance.

Really you can't be serious about comparing their kicks
Bontempelli I concede has as long a kick. But boy oh boy kolo s left foot is a beauty - its weighted over 55 meters not bombed and that is a rarity.

 

[Ant_]

Anyone who pays for online HS stuff wanna post what this article says? . Talking about us taking Bontempelli over Aish.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...story-fni5f22o-1226763639803?from=public_rss#

change heraldsun to just news in your URL and it's free

 

[Chris Grant]

Hmm fair point, his stats back you up on that one. Bontempelli (FFS, going with Bont from now on) works harder for his disposals though imo and I think once he works on that inside game a bit more and KK transitions to a wing Bont will get more of it. That's speculation though.

I'd take KK over Bont for our side too but I think Bont has greater room for improvement. No slight on KK though; I think he'll develop into a mighty fine wingman. Really don't like him off a back flank as much as others though.

I agree wholeheartedly. I like KK a lot more off a wing.

KK can get ahead of the play at times meaning he sacrifices his defensive game a bit too much. He will have to tighten up a bit so you would expect him to pick up less of the ball at the next level.

 

[yebiga]

Just to be fair I will concede that bontempelli is probably stronger now and certainly will be when mature , which may well give him the edge in marking too. But like everything about this kid far too much is futuristic.

 

[Scary_Foot_9]

I think with the game style that B-Mac wants to employ i.e win the ball at the contest, handball your way out of the contest and spread (Geelong/Sydney style) kicking skills are not as crucial as they would be in a highly possessive style (Hawthorn). I guess this is why we like players of Bontempelli and J-Mac's ilk.

 

[Aldo]

Not sure if it's been posted yet, but Emma Quayle has an article on Bontempelli. http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...opeful-marcus-bontempelli-20131119-2xtc4.html He seems to be the flavour of the day.

 

[lateniter]

Good story by Emma Quayle on Bontompelli

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...opeful-marcus-bontempelli-20131119-2xtc4.html

No mention of any possible clubs but he comes across as a level headed young guy with some good advice from his cuz.
I'm an Aish supporter but Bontompelli could be ok. There's a bit more excitement about him, but I was a fan of our last X factor too, Zeph Skinner. Hmmm
Maybe we should just wait until Thursday night before calling Bontompelli a done deal.
It's still speculation, and a lot of the Internet based stuff tends to feed on itself. And according to the Herald Sun Dogs officials weren't making a final decision until a meeting on the Gold Coast.

[edit] Nice timing Aldo!

 

[timtamWB]

Good story by Emma Quayle on Bontompelli

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...opeful-marcus-bontempelli-20131119-2xtc4.html

No mention of any possible clubs but he comes across as a level headed young guy with some good advice from his cuz.
I'm an Aish supporter but Bontompelli could be ok. There's a bit more excitement about him, but I was a fan of our last X factor too, Zeph Skinner. Hmmm
Maybe we should just wait until Thursday night before calling Bontompelli a done deal.
It's still speculation, and a lot of the Internet based stuff tends to feed on itself. And according to the Herald Sun Dogs officials weren't making a final decision until a meeting on the Gold Coast.

[edit] Nice timing Aldo!

I'm still not that much a fan of Bonts and would prefer a few others, but he's not like Zeph Skinner. He knows what it takes to make it at AFL level and he also is an extremely hard worker, which has made me warm to him a bit. He'll try to get the best out of himself.

 

[paul scholes]

I actually question whether Bontempelli is a bigger risk then Aish. If Aish doesn't improve his inside game and work ethic he may not even make it. Bontempelli has a ripper attitude and work ethic by all reports. He's coming from further back but I believe he should make it with his level of attitude and work ethic combined with his talent. Aish should make it too, but I'm not absolutely convinced. He has more runs on the board, but that doesn't mean much as he does have some things that he really needs to work on.

And I really don't see this as "we're the smartest in the room mentality" like 2009. Howard should've been picked in the rookie draft IMO, he certainly didn't belong in the first round. Bontempelli I think is well deserving of going top 10, I don't think he should be going top 5 but I won't be burning down Whitten Oval when/if he comes here. He's certainly not my first preference, but that's still ok.

It's interesting that MB says he has to improve his inside game.
Just hope the kid is a multiple premiership player and wins a norm Smith and a few brownlows.
No pressure Marcus!
The positive is he isn't a massive reach, and is rated by Knightmare and Chris .

 

[Nightowl]

Looks photoshopped?

Looks real to me !!

 

[AjsGuns]

If we do go down this track [ Bono], lets hope to hell it works out, and he turns out to be a Kouta/Pendles, because if he ends up another Everitt
[ and perhaps mathematically the odds lean that way], then we may well have seriously blown the last chance for a top 5 pick we may get for a decade.

Fine if the club is totally convinced on him [ clearly I am not], I will support their decision, I just hope to heaven they are not simply being seduced by his height.

Agreed, Can't see us having another top 5 pick for a long time if we don't get one next year. So we certainly cannot waste it and unfortunately i feel if we take Bontempelli it will be a waste since like you said mathematically there is a small chance he will be a superstar. I just don't see this one working out for us in all honesty. If we wanted Bontempelli its a shame we couldn't work out a way to trade our pick #4 for something like pick #9 + 14 (Would of probably nabbed us something like Bontempelli + Acres) i do understand a trade like that would of been almost impossible to orchestrate. Maybe Collingwood would of taken Bonts since they have 2 picks in the top #10 although i couldn't see them taking him at #6 with guys like Aish//KK/Scharenburger etc.

 

[Ridley This]

The thing I fear, and am slowly beginning to expect, is our midfield in 5 years being a bunch of strong, ferocious, one-paced, mediocre kicks of varying heights.

I will cheer them on, and hope for the best of course. But I worry that they'll be good enough to bully rubbish teams around and cruise into the PF. But not good enough to win a Premiership. Again.

You could be right about our midfield, but it will be interesting to see how the interchange cap effects such matters. Personally I think BMac has been building a game plan around it since day one. We've clearly valued physical and mental endurance over pure silk in our last few drafts. If we go with Bonce over Aish the only logical explanation would be that their trying to build a grind-house across the field. I doubt that'll make us flat-track bullies like time gone by, but it will surely come with it's own challenges.

Agreed, Can't see us having another top 5 pick for a long time if we don't get one next year. So we certainly cannot waste it and unfortunately i feel if we take Bontempelli it will be a waste since like you said mathematically there is a small chance he will be a superstar. I just don't see this one working out for us in all honesty.

Drafting appears to get weird at times. I like Aish and think we should totally pick him, however he's got a lot of Daniel Rich about him. Every chance that he'll step in straight away and be valuable, but won't improve dramatically or rapidly from what he has. In 2008, Rich slid from a lock Top 3 player, to pick 7 because teams got spooked about his upside. I think a lot of it is flow on from the Tigers drafting Tambling. People forget that he was a sure fire bet as a junior. Terry Wallace himself has noted that they were trying to take the safe option, but unfortunately for them, the improvement just wasn't there. People also forget the Jack Watts was supposed to be the sure thing, while NicNat was more speculative.

I think Aish is going to be a gun, but I'm not in player development and have no idea what any of these guys scope out to look like. I can understand the mentality that you're taking a risk with pretty well every player you draft top 5, why not go with the kid so you see something special in. It's interesting how Billings has shoot up in people opinion based purely on the prospect he'll be a midfielder one day, where as far as I can tell he's played mostly as a small forward in the TAC.

Both Stringer and Macrea were boom/bust prospects as opposed to Sam Mayes, and TBH, I was nervous about them both. Currently Mayes is probably ahead, but think most of us are happy with our recruiters judgement there.

Sod it. Bring on Thursday and we'll work it from there.

 

[Bazza Bulldog]

Both Stringer and Macrea were boom/bust prospects as opposed to Sam Mayes, and TBH, I was nervous about them both. Currently Mayes is probably ahead, but think most of us are happy with our recruiters judgement there.

And hopefully Mayes will head to us (for a 2nd rounder) once he gets sick of life in BrisVegas.