List Mgmt. 2013 Trade / Draft / Free Agency

[God Save Max King]

Sorry, I meant under 18 champs not TAC. Agree with the Goddard comparison. I reckon you could compare Sharenberg to a number of players, not discounting Pavlich. I wouldn't be overly surprised if Aish slides out of the top 3. Even know he also went back to back AA his output was below many of the other selections. His hype from last year and obvious talent will ensure he's picked high though. Apparently Melbourne are very keen on Kelly so if he goes 2 then that will really shake up the top 3. If I was going to rank the top 5 in order I'd go Boyd, Sharenberg, Aish, Billings and then Kelly. That's without considering needs of the team or what I expect to happen on draft day.

In all fairness to Aish, he has been battling heavy tags and a shoulder injury which was troublesome. His form for the SANFL seniors in previous years has been extremely promising.

 

[adambrown]

Cant wait to see who the Saints will get in this years draft, if going to be our first top 5 pick in what 10 years?
Sharenberg sounds like a gun and his versatility will be very handy. I'd be dam happy to see Sharenberg, Markworth, Siposs, Roberton and Gilbert all rotating through the half back, half forward and midfield over the next 8 to 10 years.

 

[Half Back Pocket]

I would think the following strategy is recommended:

- Acquire Mitch Brown through free agency (if possible) or trading of a draft pick somewhere between 30-50
- Enquire about Jonathan Patton and what would it take to get him (something like a player and a pick 15-25 range but a lower pick coming back would be reasonable)
- Load up with other draft picks on midfielders, with perhaps one project tall defender
- Try to keep our top five pick (keep unless we get a deal too good to refuse)
- Avoid acquiring small forwards and medium running defenders (as we have surplus of these)
- Retire Blake & Kosi and one of Milne/Schneider, keep Hayes for one more year
- Re-sign Farren Ray and Clinton Jones
- Delist Trent Dennis-Lane, Tom Ledger (not about to get a game), Terry Milera and perhaps make one more tough call on a youngster from 2011 draft (Lever perhaps)

Punter, i think the cut will run a little deeper than Ledger, Milera & Lever (i think TDL would be safe for 2014?)...i think we need to do some trades...i want pick 10!!! Imagine Pick 3, 10 & 22!!

 

[God Save Max King]

On Darcy Gardiner, yes he lacks height but the player I liken him to (Scarlett) isn't too tall either. Both are fierce competitors and great key defenders despite being "undersized".

 

[Sheeza69]

On Darcy Gardiner, yes he lacks height but the player I liken him to (Scarlett) isn't too tall either. Both are fierce competitors and great key defenders despite being "undersized".

A smart defender will make up for a lack of cm's, & Scarlett & our own Max Hudghton were testament to this as they were rarely beaten..

Surely we can find another Jamie Shanahan through one of the state leauges as a stop gap solution, whilst developing a young KD or two..

And don't forget that Shanas ended up becoming a terrific FB for the Saints..!

 

[DeeWong6996]

Hey guys, I'm planning on making my own mock draft. I have St Kilda with the third pick, what type of player are you guys in need of? Outside Mid? Utility? Forward?? Thanks in advance

 

[SaintLex]

Hey guys, I'm planning on making my own mock draft. I have St Kilda with the third pick, what type of player are you guys in need of? Outside Mid? Utility? Forward?? Thanks in advance

Inside mid and clearance beast, preferably. Outside of that, perhaps someone with a bit of class and elite kicking.

 

[stkildathunda]

Inside mid and clearance beast, preferably. Outside of that, perhaps someone with a bit of class and elite kicking.

Inside mid and clearance beast with ton class and elite kicking. Also can play as key defender or key forward when needed.......

 

[joop]

Hey guys, I'm planning on making my own mock draft. I have St Kilda with the third pick, what type of player are you guys in need of? Outside Mid? Utility? Forward?? Thanks in advance

Tom Boyd

 

[Sydswans0512]

If Saints need a clearance midfielder they should give Travis Tuck another chance they guy is massive and a very goo inside mid.

 

[goodie23]

A smart defender will make up for a lack of cm's, & Scarlett & our own Max Hudghton were testament to this as they were rarely beaten..

Surely we can find another Jamie Shanahan through one of the state leagues as a stop gap solution, whilst developing a young KD or two..

And don't forget that Shanas ended up becoming a terrific FB for the Saints..!

The game's changed. Forwards have gotten taller, backs get pinged a lot more and thanks to the sub ruckmen rest forward a lot more now. Whoever we recruit has to have the height, no amount of footy smarts will compensate for the extra reach a Boyd, Clark, Cox, Daniher, Day, Hawkins, GC Lynch, Natanui, Patton, Petrie, Sandilands, Tippett or Vickery has.

 

[saintsrfreak]

The game's changed. Forwards have gotten taller, backs get pinged a lot more and thanks to the sub ruckmen rest forward a lot more now. Whoever we recruit has to have the height, no amount of footy smarts will compensate for the extra reach a Boyd, Clark, Cox, Daniher, Day, Hawkins, GC Lynch, Natanui, Patton, Petrie, Sandilands, Tippett or Vickery has.

How many A grade defenders are really THAT tall?

 

[Sheeza69]

The game's changed. Forwards have gotten taller, backs get pinged a lot more and thanks to the sub ruckmen rest forward a lot more now. Whoever we recruit has to have the height, no amount of footy smarts will compensate for the extra reach a Boyd, Clark, Cox, Daniher, Day, Hawkins, GC Lynch, Natanui, Patton, Petrie, Sandilands, Tippett or Vickery has.

Rhys Stanley fits your criteria, unfortunately gets his arse kicked week in week out..
And i was all for Rhys to go back, but no more it's painful to see his lack of footy smarts..!!

 

[Defacto]

On Darcy Gardiner, yes he lacks height but the player I liken him to (Scarlett) isn't too tall either. Both are fierce competitors and great key defenders despite being "undersized".

problem is in scarletts hey day you didnt exactly have teams full of 197cm+ fwds, which is where the game is going now

 

[goodie23]

How many A grade defenders are really THAT tall?

Not many, that side of the game's still catching up. Boys that height are played forward in the juniors and coaches are loathe to throw them down back. Technique can be taught, look at our own Sam Fisher, height and reach can't.

 

[God Save Max King]

problem is in scarletts hey day you didnt exactly have teams full of 197cm+ fwds, which is where the game is going now

That is an issue, but a lot of players do grow after they get drafted. Gardiner is still only 17 (born September) and he shut down Jesse Hogan last year at 16 and now Hogan is dominating the VFL. I think he still has about 2.5cm of growth, it'll be interesting to see his combine results.

 

[Barrels]

How many A grade defenders are really THAT tall?

We're unlikely to get an A-Grader, but a B or C+ KPD will do in the short term... The fact is we score a big fat F currently

 

[Barrels]

That is an issue, but a lot of players do grow after they get drafted. Gardiner is still only 17 (born September) and he shut down Jesse Hogan last year at 16 and now Hogan is dominating the VFL. I think he still has about 2.5cm of growth, it'll be interesting to see his combine results.

If he was 195cm already I'd be all over him like a fat kid on a cupcake - but as it is our midfield needs are incredibly pressing, and even if we got pick #10 as part of a trade to go with pick #3, I'd rather we took, say, Aish/Kelly and Bontempelli/Freeman with them than a defender like Gardiner - whose class in undeniable, but may never grow into what we need. As Defacto said, there are a LOT of 197cm forwards now, plus the resting rucks, and 194cm simply isn't big enough anymore, particularly as he'd be 18 and not yet fully developed. We need bigger IMO, but even if we took him, we can't wait for him to mature. We need a couple of monster KPDs now

 

[Sainttony]

Inside mid and clearance beast with ton class and elite kicking. Also can play as key defender or key forward when needed.......

He has to be able to ruck, rove, play on the wing, forward and be the sub

 

[God Save Max King]

He has to be able to ruck, rove, play on the wing, forward and be the sub

I wouldn't mind if he could coach as well

 

[SaintsSeptember]

That is an issue, but a lot of players do grow after they get drafted. Gardiner is still only 17 (born September) and he shut down Jesse Hogan last year at 16 and now Hogan is dominating the VFL. I think he still has about 2.5cm of growth, it'll be interesting to see his combine results.

Players Hogan's size aren't an issue though. Simpkin could probably handle him.
When there are teams out there with 200 cm forward's we would be relying on those extra cm of growth.

 

[aussierulesrules]

One of the mock drafts I read said that Gardiner has already grown to 194cm. If that is true then I would be very, very open to drafting him at pick 10, if we were able to extract that from GWS.

Now that we're well out of contention for the time being, I think we need to be looking more long term and building ourselves a premiership capable list, rather than looking simply at our most immediate deficiencies, so while it would be nice to have someone really good for FB/CHB for next year, I'd rather look more at the big picture and get someone that we see as being outstanding in that role over the next 10-12 years, even if he's not really ready to play the role to a high level for a couple of years.

As we've found in the past couple of years, good "KPD's" don't grow on trees, so if we have the chance to get one who is of very high quality and possibly the next James Frawley or Daniel Talia (who were selected at picks 12 and 13 in uncompromised drafts- the equivalent of picks 10 and 11 this year, with Hogan and Martin not in the draft) then I would think long and hard before passing that opportunity up (and probably wouldn't pass it up, as we've seen how hard it is to get them).

Hey guys, I'm planning on making my own mock draft. I have St Kilda with the third pick, what type of player are you guys in need of? Outside Mid? Utility? Forward?? Thanks in advance

Boyd would most likely compliment Tom Lee and Spencer White perfectly, so if he was still available at 3 in your mock then we would snap him up in a big hurry and build our team for the next 10-12 years around him, but otherwise we need to stock up on midfield talent.

Best available "mid" is the way we would go, but preferably they would be able to win plenty of their own ball and also use it well. As far as needs go, we have a plethora of half back flank options, so if you see Scharanberg playing that role long term, he would be more of a luxury for us, rather than a "need", IMO. About the only structural benefit of us selecting him (if he is going to play HB long term) would be the fact that it would free up one of Wright, Murdoch and Webster to possibly play in the midfield, rather than down back, but it would all depend on what role you see him playing long term.

 

[aussierulesrules]

The more I look at it the more I think we should forget about pick 1 and try and work out a trade for GWS pick 10. If we ended up with picks 3, 10, 22 we would be in a fantastic position to set our midfield up for the next 10 years.

Here's the thing about that though. Chances are we'll have picks around or under 10 every year for the next few years, and every year there are generally a plethora of good midfield options available around those picks, so we'll likely have ample opportunities to build that future midfield over the next few years drafts, not to mention through trading and free agency.

On the other hand, the opportunity to get a Tom Boyd, a potential and likely "franchise key forward", who you can build your whole team around, generally comes around very rarely (particularly one that compliments your other forward options as perfectly as Boyd looks like he will for us), unless you just suck balls year after year after year.

About half of the "Tom Boyds" haven't even really been available to the other clubs in the past dozen or so years, as so many of them have been linked to a particular club through the F/S rule (ie. Johnathan Brown, Travis Cloke, Tom Hawkins and most recently Joe Daniher- who were all apparently top 5 quality at the time they were drafted, with at least Brown, Hawkins and Daniher considered worth taking at 1 or 2 had they not been linked to their clubs through F/S), making it even harder to get your hands on one of them.

The last time we really were in a position to get someone who looked like he would be able to dominate a key forward post and be a very "low risk of failing" was probably when we got Roo and that was almost 13 years ago now. On the other hand, since then, in spite of so much terrible drafting and not many very low picks (at least in recent years) we've been able to add Luke Ball, Brendon Goddard, Nick Dal Santo, Leigh Montagna, David Armitage, Jack Steven, Seb Ross and co. to our midfield and it's likely to be the same again over the coming years.

We're almost certainly going to have ample opportunities to add good quality "mids" over the next few years, through the drafts, trading and free agency, to add to the likes of Steven, Armo, Ross, Newnes, Saunders and hopefully the likes of Wright, Murdoch, Webster and Minchington, but the chance to get someone like Boyd, who looks like he would compliment our forward line superbly and could give us enormous forward line strength over the next decade or so, may not come around again for several more years, so I think he is too close for us to just say "nah, we don't want him, lets aim for pick 10 instead".

You can get good "mids" at almost any time in the first few rounds of the draft (Swan at pick 58, Beams 29, Swallow 43, Sloane 44, Montagna 37, Dal Santo 13, Fyfe 20, Parker 40, Hannebery 30 or so, Stanton 13, Steven 42, Scott Selwood 22, Brad Ebert 13, Dangerfield 10, O'Keefe 56, Redden 25, Shuey 18, Jetta 14, Toby Greene 11, Hrovat 21, Boyd rookie draft, Rockliff PSD, Zorko 34, etc) , but you won't find too many Tom Boyd's floating around anywhere but at the very top of the draft, or through the F/S rule, so if you have an opening for one of them and you have a legit opportunity to get them, without having to sell the farm to do so, I think you just do it every time without hesitating and throw a party to celebrate afterwards.

And don't forget, if GWS's pick 10 is on the table as well as pick one, there is no reason that we couldn't get both picks one and 10, if we were prepared to offer up pick 3/4 and someone (or two) else of significant value for them. Then we could end up with 1, 10, 22 and we could get two of those midfield options you spoke of, plus someone who could be our next Roo, or even Plugger.

Maybe we get a Sheed, Dunstan, Crouch, Bontompelli, Taylor, or Freeman at 10 and a Tsitas, Dumont or Hartung at 22, to go with Steven, Armitage, Ross, Newnes, Saunders and hopefully one or all of Wright, Murdoch, Webster and Minchington (who could transition into the midfield) and that is already starting to look like it is a midfield that has a lot of potential and talent.

Or, if we're taking more of a long-term view, with 10 we could get Gardiner (if we rate him that high) and with one, Boyd and with the two of them we could have our "bookends" for the next 12 years and then we could look to add to our midfield with pretty much all our remaining picks this year and with most of our picks or trades next year, with a view to building our next premiership quality list.

Possible 2018 team, if we added Boyd, Gardiner and Tsitas with 1, 10 and 22:

B: Stanley Gardiner Geary
HB: Roberton Simpkin Webster
C: Newnes Ross Wright
HF: Siposs Lee Markworth
F: White Boyd Saad
R: Hickey Armitage Steven
I: Tsitas Murdoch Saunders Minchington
E: Dunell Gwilt Pierce

Add another couple of top-10 quality "mids" to that team over the next couple of years and someone good for CHB in the meantime, not to mention all the others that will be added over that 5 years (through the draft/free agency/trades) and I think that would potentially be a genuine premiership contending team from 2018 or so, after having had a year or two in the finals leading up to that time to get used to finals footy again.

 

[BrianSpeaking]

Nice post mate, I'll keep it short and sweet....draft the next best player on the board, you can never go wrong if you do this.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Or move up the board through a trade (which is where you generally look to fill your needs) to get the very best available talent in that draft and one that also happens to fit a need or two.

I'm not suggesting that we get pick one and then draft someone that we don't think is the best in the draft with that pick, or that we trade up to pick one and draft the one we consider to be best available, but who doesn't fill a structural need we have. I'm saying that I hope we trade up to get the most elite talent that is available and one that also fits a structural need that we have.

In finals footy (where teams generally kick it long and deep into the F50) you want the big strong "power forward" that will take the big pack, high, or contested marks and then go back and slot the goal and that is pretty much what Boyd brings to the table, by the sounds of it. I'd suggest he's like a more consistent and better kicking version of Tippett, or a combination of Tippett and Josh Kennedy and if we had him deep and White and Lee out in front of him, doing all the leading up and back and getting the ball to him, I think we'd have a genuinely powerful and dangerous combination that could actually give the 2018 versions of GWS and Gold Coast a real run for their money, once we add to our midfield and key defensive stocks more, after we pick up Boyd at one.

I'm also not suggesting that we get someone at pick 10 if we don't think they are worth that pick. But if we do believe that Gardiner is worth that pick, I wouldn't want us to overlook him just because of a desire to bolster our midfield, because I would have thought we also needed to bolster our key defensive stocks going forward and they also generally take longer to develop, so that is even more of a reason to get them first.