List Mgmt. 2013 Trade / Draft / Free Agency

[Barrels]

Uncle Barrels and Periphery

I completely understand what both of you are trying to say and if we get Longer and he becomes a gun ruckman and forward I am very happy to eat humble pie. But if we are getting him in the hope we can develop into a forward (I am confident he will become a gun ruckman no matter where he lands) aren't we better off to recruit an actual forward? Playing KPF takes years to develop, as you already know, for kids who have played forward all their lives and I expect it would take even longer for Longer (ha!) to develop this new bow to his game.

If we get Longer this year and shows potential as a KPF would you still want us to recruit one of the potential gun KPF's in next years draft (which I have read is full of KPP's) ?

Of course, but we're not recruiting longer as a KPF, but rather as a ruck who is an effective forward - Dean Cox for example - and despite having Lee, Stanley and White on the list, as I said above Roo won't be around for much longer and we'll need to replace him; Lee is arguably more of a third tall, but in any event White and, to an extent, Stanley remain unproven, so of course we'd draft a Goddard, Wright or McCartin if they fall our way. Longer wouldn't stand in the way of that.

 

[Darkhour]

you dont always go for the best available throughout the draft.. you do need to draft on a needs basis also, but it makes sense to go for the cream at the top and speculate/trade to fill the needs basis.

 

[Periphery]

Uncle Barrels and Periphery

I completely understand what both of you are trying to say and if we get Longer and he becomes a gun ruckman and forward I am very happy to eat humble pie. But if we are getting him in the hope we can develop into a forward (I am confident he will become a gun ruckman no matter where he lands) aren't we better off to recruit an actual forward? Playing KPF takes years to develop, as you already know, for kids who have played forward all their lives and I expect it would take even longer for Longer (ha!) to develop this new bow to his game.

If we get Longer this year and shows potential as a KPF would you still want us to recruit one of the potential gun KPF's in next years draft (which I have read is full of gun KPP's) ?

I'm no expert on any of this so take this for what it is worth (nothing ) but I think that will depend on how all our other forward options go.

Long term our current dedicated tall key forward options are Lee, White and Stanley. Of the 3 Lee looks the most proven at the moment. White is totally untested and has an injury concern, Stanley is a question mark both injury wise and that he hasn't really played a huge amount up forward.

If Stanley and White turn into what we all hope they can be, we possibly wont need one of the KPP's from next year, but there is a chance that they might not come good in which case we might need one of them. It is kind of too early to tell, but I tend to fell that the more options we have the better.

I think a Hickey & Stanley ruck combo/White/Lee forward line could be amazing if they come good, but I also think that paying pick 25 for Longer is very good insurance in case one of those players doesn't work out. He also gives us another option if Hickey doesn't work for some reason.

It does create pressure for spots but that isn't a horrible thing, you just have to make sure they don't leave looking for more opportunity. Rooey will be leaving us in the next year or 2 () so that will open up a spot at some stage.

Having them all also gives the Pelican lots of ammo to be using in trade period next year.

Basically if we can get Longer for pick 25 or some other fairly cheap but reasonable price then I see no reason not to get him.

 

[holllywood]

Of course, but we're not recruiting longer as a KPF, but rather as a ruck who is an effective forward - Dean Cox for example - and despite having Lee, Stanley and White on the list, as I said above Roo won't be around for much longer and we'll need to replace him; Lee is arguably more of a third tall, but in any event White and, to an extent, Stanley remain unproven, so of course we'd draft a Goddard, Wright or McCartin if they fall our way. Longer wouldn't stand in the way of that.

Reading the Brisbane forums they said one of the reasons he didn't get more game time was his inability to play as a forward. This inability put him directly behind Luey for the number 1 ruck position at Brisbane and the reason he was getting little game time. So I would argue that he is infact more unproven than Stanley in his ability to play forward.

Many people thought that McEvoy would develop that ability to play as an effective forward which never worked out for us.

Having said that I have full faith in our recruiting department so if they say he can become an effective forward than I believe he can. It just seems like a risk that we don't have to take, especially considering we do have Stanley and White (who I agree remain unproven) and potentially Goddard, Lever and Wright as forwards.

 

[cotter101]

Reading the Brisbane forums they said one of the reasons he didn't get more game time was his inability to play as a forward. This inability put him directly behind Luey for the number 1 ruck position at Brisbane and the reason he was getting little game time. So I would argue that he is infact more unproven than Stanley in his ability to play forward.

Many people thought that McEvoy would develop that ability to play as an effective forward which never worked out for us.

Having said that I have full faith in our recruiting department so if they say he can become an effective forward than I believe he can. It just seems like a risk that we don't have to take, especially considering we do have Stanley and White (who I agree remain unproven) and potentially Goddard, Lever and Wright as forwards.

You could certainly argue that. His forward game will come along. Took Leuenberger a while to develop his(he did have his injuries though).

 

[VDS66]

The only way to improve your list is to keep pumping in players from the bottom and hope that they rise and push out existing players on merit. So yeah, get Longer. If he is good then he'll push out Hickster or Rhys. It's all part of the player churn IMO.

You cannot predict the future and settle on a set combo for years ahead. Yes, you can aim for it, but circumstances may not allow it. I would think that if we got Longer then Rhys' days would be numbered or he is further developed to replace Roo.

And KPP's we get next year (and once again we have no clue as to which draft pick we'll end up with) will take a few years anyway and be unlikely to have an immediate impact unless they area freak.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I'm just getting a bit pissed.
Last year after the draft period we were set for Rucks and Forwards, we had a hole in the backline and our midfield was turning to shit.
So now we've traded out a ruck, so we're looking at spending a decent pick to get one and we STILL haven't secured a full back. And our two super trick trades for nothing ( Milera and Saad ) aren't looking so rosy.
So far I like Pelchen's strategy , I'm just hoping like hell he can deliver.

 

[Barrels]

I'll say it again, Longer was behind Luenberger primarily because he's five years younger. Compare Luenberger of five years ago to Longer as he currently is if you want an accurate and fair comparison...

 

[saintguy]

I'm just getting a bit pissed.
Last year after the draft period we were set for Rucks and Forwards, we had a hole in the backline and our midfield was turning to shit.
So now we've traded out a ruck, so we're looking at spending a decent pick to get one and we STILL haven't secured a full back. And our two super trick trades for nothing ( Milera and Saad ) aren't looking so rosy.
So far I like Pelchen's strategy , I'm just hoping like hell he can deliver.

Hopefully Bruce and Delaney get done to begin to build the back line. Everything I've read on Bruce looks like he will be a really handy defender for us. More than likely both will be done by the sounds of it.

 

[SaintLex]

I'm just getting a bit pissed.
Last year after the draft period we were set for Rucks and Forwards, we had a hole in the backline and our midfield was turning to shit.
So now we've traded out a ruck, so we're looking at spending a decent pick to get one and we STILL haven't secured a full back. And our two super trick trades for nothing ( Milera and Saad ) aren't looking so rosy.
So far I like Pelchen's strategy , I'm just hoping like hell he can deliver.

Are you deliberately overlooking the fact that we're likely to secure two KPDs by the end of the trade period?

 

[Periphery]

I'll say it again, Longer was behind Luenberger primarily because he's five years younger. Compare Luenberger of five years ago to Longer as he currently is if you want an accurate and fair comparison...

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/...1=1722&tid2=20&pid2=3646&type=A&fid1=O&fid2=O

Won't tell the whole story (where each of them was played/injuries etc) but there is the comparison at the same age.

Edit: @ Longer giving away 13 frees in 4 games this year!

 

[saintguy]

I

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/...1=1722&tid2=20&pid2=3646&type=A&fid1=O&fid2=O

Won't tell the whole story (where each of them was played/injuries etc) but there is the comparison at the same age.

Edit: @ Longer giving away 13 frees in 4 games this year!

its even more interesting to do mcevoy and longer at that age

 

[Manimal_Dunstan]

Brisbane have some flog fans.

 

[saber_32au]

Brisbane have some flog fans.

Disgraceful!

I would hope that we as saints supporters, and as footy supporters in general. would never stoop to such a low.
While I think we should move on a few players on our list, and there may be players on are list who'd like to move, I'd never wish those departing players the ill fortune of injury, especially such a severe injury as an ACL....

 

[Navy2005]

Just wanted to know what player Saints fans are hoping to get with pick 3 I for one am hoping we are a chance to get Aish. He has been touted as the No 2 pick for awhile now but afl.com.au seems to think GWS are more interested in Kelly or Billings I for one hope so as I think Aish will be a gun.

 

[HayesTheChamp]

Just wanted to know what player Saints fans are hoping to get with pick 3 I for one am hoping we are a chance to get Aish. He has been touted as the No 2 pick for awhile now but afl.com.au seems to think GWS are more interested in Kelly or Billings I for one hope so as I think Aish will be a gun.

I thought GWS was super keen in Kelly / Scharenberg.

 

[Falchoon]

Ok lets try this again.
Billy Longer will be a Lion next year if a deal can't be done... He will not risk the unkown in the draft and the Saints and Lions know it.
We declined pick 18 from the Hawkes without thought..... So why would we suddenly think 25 is a better deal?

I really think Armitage fills a good age gap for us and is a Qld boy. He was one of the highlights for you guys when we played you. I really think it will be him and at least pick 25. Otherwise we keep Longer, who is already a great tap ruckman..... Great forward though???? Not yet.

I wouldn't go Armitage with Moloney, Rich, Rockliff and even Zorko, he's too similar to what you already have.

 

[Navy2005]

I thought GWS was super keen in Kelly / Scharenberg.

Not sure about Scharenberg but they seem to be talking up Kelly, Boyd seems a certainty to go no 1 which means we could snare Aish which seems a pretty good option.

 

[cotter101]

I wouldn't go Armitage with Moloney, Rich, Rockliff and even Zorko, he's too similar to what you already have.

Yeah I tend to agree. From what I seen of Armitage this year he looks similar to Jack Redden. Hard at it and gets plenty of tackles. What's Armitage's speed like?

 

[Manimal_Dunstan]

Only just noticed David Armitage signed his 3 year deal in March, thought he signed it last year.

 

[Strahany]

Yeah I tend to agree. From what I seen of Armitage this year he looks similar to Jack Redden. Hard at it and gets plenty of tackles. What's Armitage's speed like?

He's not quick in terms of a straight line, although he has improved in the recent years since he has hired a sprint coach. But he broke the agility record at the draft combine - I'm not sure if it still stands, though.

 

[holllywood]

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/...1=1722&tid2=20&pid2=3646&type=A&fid1=O&fid2=O

Won't tell the whole story (where each of them was played/injuries etc) but there is the comparison at the same age.

Edit: @ Longer giving away 13 frees in 4 games this year!

I agree that if we can get this kid for pick 25 we should, as it's an absolute steal. But what I am arguing is that because of his potential we would have to give up more than pick 25. Remember at the start of the trade period there was talk of 18 + Savage for Longer so I expect a trade of similar value would have to be offered in order to obtain Longer.

And his manager has said that he will stay if a deal can't be reached, effectively ruling him out of the PSD or ND.

 

[FlyingSledghamer]

I had a dream lasst night that we took aish and garlett in the draft.
Imagine a midfield made up of Steven, Armo, Hayes, Montagna, Ross, Aish, Garlett, Saunders, Curren, Jones, Savage.
With Hickey shoving it down their throats.

 

[FlyingSledghamer]

If we get Bruce and Delany. Our backline will consist of.
Bruce, Delany, Dempster, Gwilt, Roberton, Gilbert, Wright, Geary, Ray, simpkin, Newnes, Fisher and Webster.
That looks pretty solid to me.

 

[ralphysaints35]

i quitely hope we pick gartlett & he becomes a good boy so to speak