List Mgmt. 2014 Draft Trade FA Megathread

[hayes]

So we're all pretty confident that Longer will develop enough as a forward?

 

[Barrels]

We should go after Jake Carlile from the Bombers and actually tell him we'll play him in his right position...'down back! Would have been All Australian last year if they kept him down there.

Very good player down back, but if he's sooking now, how's he going to go if Brucey and Delaney are in front of him in the key defensive spots?

Then again, could we play with all of Delaney, Bruce and Carlisle in the same backline? Fish is nearly 32, Dempster 30 and Gwilt 27, they're not going to go forever... But I'm not certain the below necessarily works:

FB: Webster - Delaney - Bruce
HB: Wright - Carlisle - Roberton

And, in addition to the above three, that's not including Geary, Murdoch, Newnes or Acres, all of who can roll through half back...

Essendon would ask a packet for him too...

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

So we're all pretty confident that Longer will develop enough as a forward?

I think as a collective group, Saints supporters have been burnt by how much McEvoy struggled as a key forward. He didn't take enough F50 marks & had no defensive pressure at all if the ball hit the ground. As a result we all struggle to see how playing two ruckmen in one side (in addition to Stanley) could work. There are a number of teams doing this already (Cats have been playing Simpson, McIntosh & Blicavs for example).

For mine Longer is a footballer primarily. He isn't an athlete like Rhys who isn't a natural footballer but he has some serious athletic prowess. His leap really surprised me in the Crows game & while he is not as fast as Stanley or Hickey, he's definitely got more toe than Macca. The best thing about Billy is that he's aggressive & loves to lay a big tackle. I reckon he'll develop into a Mumford like player.... which I think would compliment both Hickey & Stanley nicely.

 

[Rors]

Very good player down back, but if he's sooking now, how's he going to go if Brucey and Delaney are in front of him in the key defensive spots?

Then again, could we play with all of Delaney, Bruce and Carlisle in the same backline? Fish is nearly 32, Dempster 30 and Gwilt 27, they're not going to go forever... But I'm not certain the below necessarily works:

FB: Webster - Delaney - Bruce
HB: Wright - Carlisle - Roberton

And, in addition to the above three, that's not including Geary, Murdoch, Newnes or Acres, all of who can roll through half back...

Essendon would ask a packet for him too...

We need another Tommy Walsh....

 

[stkildathunda]

Very good player down back, but if he's sooking now, how's he going to go if Brucey and Delaney are in front of him in the key defensive spots?

Then again, could we play with all of Delaney, Bruce and Carlisle in the same backline? Fish is nearly 32, Dempster 30 and Gwilt 27, they're not going to go forever... But I'm not certain the below necessarily works:

FB: Webster - Delaney - Bruce
HB: Wright - Carlisle - Roberton

And, in addition to the above three, that's not including Geary, Murdoch, Newnes or Acres, all of who can roll through half back...

Essendon would ask a packet for him too...

Carlile would well and truly be ahead of Delaney/Bruce. Also I reckon you could have Carlile/Delaney as key defenders and use Bruce as the Dempster/Fisher type player. I reckon he's probably more suited to that role having seen him play that in VFL more then key position.

 

[CALL ME SNAKE]

I don't think Longer is 'our insurance policy' his a former top 10 pick, built body, defiantly got what it takes. Hickey and McEvoy played together last year, whats the difference between Hickey and Longer?

Yeah i'll agree with that
A few peeps think Longer might become a good forward as well. Im not so sure about that, but I do think he will develop into a very good ruckman indeed.
I think after the Nic Nat / Cox combo a lot of people want clubs to draft a great ruckman who can drift forward and kick a few goals every week.
Its hard enough to draft a great ruck, equally as hard to draft a great forward. To get both in one pick like Cox is extremely rare. Any goals from a ruckman is a huge bonus. Hickeys game against GWS was awesome for us.
For now Hickey holds the number 1 spot. In a couple of yrs when we are hopefully in the thick of the finals again who knows just how good Longer could be by then. I think we are going to be very healthy in the ruck dept

 

[bird_man]

Yeah i'll agree with that
A few peeps think Longer might become a good forward as well. Im not so sure about that, but I do think he will develop into a very good ruckman indeed.
I think after the Nic Nat / Cox combo a lot of people want clubs to draft a great ruckman who can drift forward and kick a few goals every week.
Its hard enough to draft a great ruck, equally as hard to draft a great forward. To get both in one pick like Cox is extremely rare. Any goals from a ruckman is a huge bonus. Hickeys game against GWS was awesome for us.
For now Hickey holds the number 1 spot. In a couple of yrs when we are hopefully in the thick of the finals again who knows just how good Longer could be by then. I think we are going to be very healthy in the ruck dept

The ruckman/forward idea has been around a hell of a lot longer than Nic Nat/Cox. Paul Salmon was great at it as was big Spider. It's a huge asset having a guy that play ruck and kick a bag of goals, unfortunately they are hard to find and even harder to turn into forwards.

 

[hayes]

I think as a collective group, Saints supporters have been burnt by how much McEvoy struggled as a key forward. He didn't take enough F50 marks & had no defensive pressure at all if the ball hit the ground. As a result we all struggle to see how playing two ruckmen in one side (in addition to Stanley) could work. There are a number of teams doing this already (Cats have been playing Simpson, McIntosh & Blicavs for example).

For mine Longer is a footballer primarily. He isn't an athlete like Rhys who isn't a natural footballer but he has some serious athletic prowess. His leap really surprised me in the Crows game & while he is not as fast as Stanley or Hickey, he's definitely got more toe than Macca. The best thing about Billy is that he's aggressive & loves to lay a big tackle. I reckon he'll develop into a Mumford like player.... which I think would compliment both Hickey & Stanley nicely.

How many players do you want to put in the ruck though? TBH I think the only way that works is if Stanley shows enough as a forward to play there permanently, or are you saying that's what you think will happen?

FWIW I think Geelong are only playing all three together because they have a massive hole at CHF.

 

[stkildathunda]

So we're all pretty confident that Longer will develop enough as a forward?

Well he can't be all that worse then Rhys Stanley at kicking goals... He's only kicked 3 this year, so not going lose much in reality.

 

[Rors]

The ruckman/forward idea has been around a hell of a lot longer than Nic Nat/Cox. Paul Salmon was great at it as was big Spider. It's a huge asset having a guy that play ruck and kick a bag of goals, unfortunately they are hard to find and even harder to turn into forwards.

I think that's the problem. I think for it to work properly, the player must be a forward first & ruckman second.

It's easy to just have a player 'compete' in the ruck & get away with it, provided your midfielders are very good. But you can't really have someone 'compete' as a forward, it just doesnt seem work. They need to be able to take marks, kick goals, know where to lead etc.... Its hard enough for a true forward to learn these things, so imagine how hard it is being a pure ruckman & asked to try it out?!

 

[Barrels]

Carlile would well and truly be ahead of Delaney/Bruce. Also I reckon you could have Carlile/Delaney as key defenders and use Bruce as the Dempster/Fisher type player. I reckon he's probably more suited to that role having seen him play that in VFL more then key position.

I reckon you're right.

Who takes the other pocket and the flanks?

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

How many players do you want to put in the ruck though? TBH I think the only way that works is if Stanley shows enough as a forward to play there permanently, or are you saying that's what you think will happen?

FWIW I think Geelong are only playing all three together because they have a massive hole at CHF.

I think Stanley showed on Saturday night that he COULD be the lead up forward that we need to take pressure off Roo/ be a key part of the post Roo forward line. It's a bit like the Swans having Tippett as the 200cm forward with Pike & Mumford still in the team. It can work if you have players that all have differing skill sets... which I believe that Rhys, Tom & Billy have. One thing they can't be is one dimensional. A ruckman has to offer a lot more than just being a tap specialist.

BTW I think our forward line has similar issues to Geelong's... one key forward & the need for another target to take pressure off the main man.

 

[bird_man]

I think with Bruce and Delaney there we are better off drafting a young backman to be honest. We would have to give up a lot for Carlile.

 

[Barrels]

I think with Bruce and Delaney there we are better off drafting a young backman to be honest. We would have to give up a lot for Carlile.

And that's the issues isn't it...

 

[hayes]

Well he can't be all that worse then Rhys Stanley at kicking goals... He's only kicked 3 this year, so not going lose much in reality.

That's three more than Longer has kicked in his career. Before Stanley went back last year he was going at a goal per game which isn't great, but is better than Longer.

But that just shows how important nailing your shots is. Riewoldt isn't playing any better than he ever has he's just converting at a better rate, so instead of 2.3 against his name it's 5.1. Makes all the difference. Stanley just needs to start converting better and all the talk about him not kicking enough goals will stop.

 

[CALL ME SNAKE]

The ruckman/forward idea has been around a hell of a lot longer than Nic Nat/Cox. Paul Salmon was great at it as was big Spider. It's a huge asset having a guy that play ruck and kick a bag of goals, unfortunately they are hard to find and even harder to turn into forwards.

Yes very true
I just used the Big Cox & Nic Nat as examples co's that's who the younger Saints supporters would relate to as the current best ruck/forwards.
Most of them would be thinking Paul Salmon who??
Good old Spider did kick a few bags of goals in his time with us. Very good player. Its a shame he and Thommo never saw eye to eye ( probably had something to do with the massive height difference )

 

[Manimal_Dunstan]

We should go after Jake Carlile from the Bombers and actually tell him we'll play him in his right position...'down back! Would have been All Australian last year if they kept him down there.

Plenty of clubs would but doubt he'll ask for a trade or anything, GWS have offered him decent contracts over the last few years and he hasn't left. If Bomber Thompson stayed on next year probably would but Tirdy will play him down back again when he returns.

 

[Persevering Saint]

Personally, I reckon we could get overs from Essendon for Ross and Dunell as a package, given the family connections.

 

[Barrels]

Personally, I reckon we could get overs from Essendon for Ross and Dunell as a package, given the family connections.

"Hi guys, we've got a deal for you... a slowish fringe mid and skinny mid-sizer who isn't in the best 22 for your near-AA key defender; whaddya say?!"

.......

"They're family...."

.......

"Wait, why are you laughing...."

 

[VDS66]

Yes very true
I just used the Big Cox & Nic Nat as examples co's that's who the younger Saints supporters would relate to as the current best ruck/forwards.
Most of them would be thinking Paul Salmon who??
Good old Spider did kick a few bags of goals in his time with us. Very good player. Its a shame he and Thommo never saw eye to eye ( probably had something to do with the massive height difference )

His injury probably cost us in 97 along with Vidovic.

 

[CALL ME SNAKE]

His injury probably cost us in 97 along with Vidovic.

Yeah the old Videovic as Rexy used to call him was underated. Wasn't overly mobile but was extremely physical and held his own at centre bounces.
Poor old Brett Cook was thrown into the deep end and we went into the Granny with our third string ruckman
Oh why did you get me thinking of 97. Now im sad again

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Yeah the old Videovic as Rexy used to call him was underated. Wasn't overly mobile but was extremely physical and held his own at centre bounces.
Poor old Brett Cook was thrown into the deep end and we went into the Granny with our third string ruckman
Oh why did you get me thinking of 97. Now im sad again

You say extremely physical, I say extremely violent. In a good way.

Love Lazar. Jarman & McLeod would have spent the last qtr at Epworth if he played.

 

[CALL ME SNAKE]

You say extremely physical, I say extremely violent. In a good way.

Love Lazar. Jarman & McLeod would have spent the last qtr at Epworth if he played.

LOL
Remember when he introduced the Freo team to the Afl via their first pre season Cup game by punching out half the team
If anybody can find that footage it would be great to watch

 

[bird_man]

 

[bird_man]

I remember that like it was yesterday, I'd like to know what just made him snap?