List Mgmt. 2014: The List

[I AM CARLTON]

Enough beating about the bush if the club wants to move forward we need to start moving players off our list.

Scotland why was he rookie listed if there is no intent to play him? Wouldn't offer him another contract.

McLean sorry but we will not win a flag with this guy in our starting midfield. Not going to improve enough to challenge the Hawthorns of this world. Delist him at the end of the year.

Robinson the guy tries hard but his disposal just isn't good enough would he get a game at Geelong or Hawthorn I don't think so. Needs to be delisted also.

Waite time to move him on and let Casboult have a real crack at it.

Armfield just not good enough wouldn't get a game at top clubs and if we want to be a top club these are the hard decisions we must make.

Ellard how many years has he been on the list and cannot cement a spot enough said.

McInness compare him to a Mackie or Birchall he isn't even close to these guys doesn't influence the game enough would delist him also.

This may sound harsh but as a club we cannot simple keep picking the same team as we have been and expect different results. If we want to surge up the ladder big changes are required!!!!!!

 

[rp84]

Yeah that's fair, I think it's a little differenth free agency, middle of the road teams like us can turn things around with successful bids in the free agency period, though taking too many may suck up the cap space. It's just a matter of doing the maths, working out how many you need to be contenders, what they cost and if you can afford them. Sacrifices make it easier to chase free agents you would believe. But i guess it depends how far behind we are.

Name one team where free agency has turned them middle of the road to contender?


Drafting well and good culture a la cats and hawks is where its at. The cats especially surprise me year after year.

Free agency is not the issue.

Player development is. Ours is poor at best.

 

[rp84]

In fact, its hard to even pick many free agency players that are better when they move. Maybe gaz, but maybe its that he has to do it all.

Big money players like tippett, mitch clark has certainly struggled for form and fitness early on.

Goddard has been ok but in a bang average team.

Buddy has started slowly but you'd think he would get better.

One or two players rarely makes a great team. All the contenders have 3-5 all Australian contenders, excellent middle tier players and talented kids that make up their squad.

 

[TheRedPill]

Enough beating about the bush if the club wants to move forward we need to start moving players off our list.

Scotland why was he rookie listed if there is no intent to play him? Wouldn't offer him another contract.

McLean sorry but we will not win a flag with this guy in our starting midfield. Not going to improve enough to challenge the Hawthorns of this world. Delist him at the end of the year.

Robinson the guy tries hard but his disposal just isn't good enough would he get a game at Geelong or Hawthorn I don't think so. Needs to be delisted also.

Waite time to move him on and let Casboult have a real crack at it.

Armfield just not good enough wouldn't get a game at top clubs and if we want to be a top club these are the hard decisions we must make.

Ellard how many years has he been on the list and cannot cement a spot enough said.

McInness compare him to a Mackie or Birchall he isn't even close to these guys doesn't influence the game enough would delist him also.

This may sound harsh but as a club we cannot simple keep picking the same team as we have been and expect different results. If we want to surge up the ladder big changes are required!!!!!!

Whoa, keep it in your pants! Whilst I agree with some of your points, there are a few players there who warrant more than a simple "delist". McInnes is going into his 4th year after missing a lot of valuable conditioning and experience due to injury. Prior to this, he showed very promising signs. Why move Waite on? He's a good player, and we don't have anyone nearly as good as him to replace him.

There are obvious and painful deficiencies on our list, but people should be a bit more discerning about such proclamations. My main desire - and source of frustration due to its absence - is for younger guys to show enough signs to force the older plodders out. No point kicking a hack out for a younger hack!

 

[I bleed Blue]

Enough beating about the bush if the club wants to move forward we need to start moving players off our list.

Scotland why was he rookie listed if there is no intent to play him? Wouldn't offer him another contract.

McLean sorry but we will not win a flag with this guy in our starting midfield. Not going to improve enough to challenge the Hawthorns of this world. Delist him at the end of the year.

Robinson the guy tries hard but his disposal just isn't good enough would he get a game at Geelong or Hawthorn I don't think so. Needs to be delisted also.

Waite time to move him on and let Casboult have a real crack at it.

Armfield just not good enough wouldn't get a game at top clubs and if we want to be a top club these are the hard decisions we must make.

Ellard how many years has he been on the list and cannot cement a spot enough said.

McInness compare him to a Mackie or Birchall he isn't even close to these guys doesn't influence the game enough would delist him also.

This may sound harsh but as a club we cannot simple keep picking the same team as we have been and expect different results. If we want to surge up the ladder big changes are required!!!!!!

Dude. We turned our list over a fair bit this off season. We can't exactly change half the list over night. It is going to take a couple of years.
Chill out.

 

[BM123]

Enough beating about the bush if the club wants to move forward we need to start moving players off our list.

Scotland why was he rookie listed if there is no intent to play him? Wouldn't offer him another contract.

McLean sorry but we will not win a flag with this guy in our starting midfield. Not going to improve enough to challenge the Hawthorns of this world. Delist him at the end of the year.

Robinson the guy tries hard but his disposal just isn't good enough would he get a game at Geelong or Hawthorn I don't think so. Needs to be delisted also.

Waite time to move him on and let Casboult have a real crack at it.

Armfield just not good enough wouldn't get a game at top clubs and if we want to be a top club these are the hard decisions we must make.

Ellard how many years has he been on the list and cannot cement a spot enough said.

McInness compare him to a Mackie or Birchall he isn't even close to these guys doesn't influence the game enough would delist him also.

This may sound harsh but as a club we cannot simple keep picking the same team as we have been and expect different results. If we want to surge up the ladder big changes are required!!!!!!

Mcinnes is 22 years old and did his acl in 2012. Can't be compared to Grant Birchall who was a top ten pick and Mackie who is 29 years old.

 

[BM123]

In fact, its hard to even pick many free agency players that are better when they move. Maybe gaz, but maybe its that he has to do it all.

Big money players like tippett, mitch clark has certainly struggled for form and fitness early on.

Goddard has been ok but in a bang average team.

Buddy has started slowly but you'd think he would get better.

One or two players rarely makes a great team. All the contenders have 3-5 all Australian contenders, excellent middle tier players and talented kids that make up their squad.

I keep going on about this but we need to improve our bottom end moreso then our top end.

 

[I AM CARLTON]

Mcinnes is 22 years old and did his acl in 2012. Can't be compared to Grant Birchall who was a top ten pick and Mackie who is 29 years old.

We'll compare him to Suckling then who is younger than Birchall and Mackie and also done a knee.

I just think that if we are to move forward we need another massive clean out come the seasons end. Now if you go through the list the players I mentioned aren't exactly either demanding to be kept or going to take us to our next flag.

 

[I AM CARLTON]

Whoa, keep it in your pants! Whilst I agree with some of your points, there are a few players there who warrant more than a simple "delist". McInnes is going into his 4th year after missing a lot of valuable conditioning and experience due to injury. Prior to this, he showed very promising signs. Why move Waite on? He's a good player, and we don't have anyone nearly as good as him to replace him.

There are obvious and painful deficiencies on our list, but people should be a bit more discerning about such proclamations. My main desire - and source of frustration due to its absence - is for younger guys to show enough signs to force the older plodders out. No point kicking a hack out for a younger hack!

Okay so I have put my pants back on

The reason why I suggest move Waite on is he has been at the club for well over 10 years and during this period we haven't really been a contender except maybe for 2011. Is Waite going to get any better than he has been over this period highly doubtful majority of players go backwards in their 30's. I want to see younger guys in the team plus also free up as much salary cap space as you never know who might be willing to come to Carlton but you need the cap space to fit them in.

Don't get me wrong I know you still need experience and can't be a complete team of youngsters but surely between Simpson, Walker, Murphy, Jamieson, Thomas, Gibbs (if he stays), Judd (if he continues) Kruezer, Henderson we have enough experience. We can't keep picking the same team every year and expect different results.

 

[Cringle]

Okay so I have put my pants back on

The reason why I suggest move Waite on is he has been at the club for well over 10 years and during this period we haven't really been a contender except maybe for 2011. Is Waite going to get any better than he has been over this period highly doubtful majority of players go backwards in their 30's.

Absolutely no logic in that.

 

[Azul]

Mcinnes is 22 years old and did his acl in 2012. Can't be compared to Grant Birchall who was a top ten pick and Mackie who is 29 years old.

Agreed. Malthouse was hasty in delisting Laidler after injury mismanagement. McInnes deserves the benefit of the doubt, for a while at least.

That said, I can't see us keeping all 3 of Bootsma, White and Andy come year's end.

 

[Cringle]

Agreed. Malthouse was hasty in delisting Laidler after injury mismanagement. McInnes deserves the benefit of the doubt, for a while at least.

That said, I can't see us keeping all 3 of Bootsma, White and Andy come year's end.

Well we won't be getting rid of Boots (2011 Draft) or McInnes (2010)

 

[huddler]

Right at this moment Paul Bower is preparing to line up for Heidelberg as they take on Macleod.

There are a number of players on our list who could probably do with Carpe'ing the Diem while they still have the chance.

 

[etsal1]

Agreed. Malthouse was hasty in delisting Laidler after injury mismanagement. McInnes deserves the benefit of the doubt, for a while at least.

That said, I can't see us keeping all 3 of Bootsma, White and Andy come year's end.

Malthouse wasn't hasty getting rid of Laidler.

Swans omitted him last week.

He refused to buy into Micks plan.

 

[Azul]

Swans omitted him last week.

He refused to buy into Micks plan.

He's back in the team this week. Laids will return to his pre-injury form that we loved in his first 2 years, after a few games under his belt.

Laidler is a defender, not a forward.

Malthouse, the messiah, failed in people management - don't sugar coat it.

 

[Azul]

Well we won't be getting rid of Boots (2011 Draft) or McInnes (2010)

Who can say for sure. Boots was keen to walk out last trade period but WCE weren't interested.

 

[etsal1]

He's back in the team this week. Laids will return to his pre-injury form that we loved in his first 2 years, after a few games under his belt.

Laidler is a defender, not a forward.

Malthouse, the messiah, failed in people management - don't sugar coat it.

Each to their own. But I don't think he will get back to that form.

Guess we'll have to wait & see.

 

[Wickzki]

He's back in the team this week. Laids will return to his pre-injury form that we loved in his first 2 years, after a few games under his belt..

Happy for him to play some solid footy but the reality is that that was never going to happen at Carlton.

Some players need fresh starts. He was one of them.

 

[Sharks On A Plane]

Laids will return to his pre-injury form that we loved in his first 2 years, after a few games under his belt.

No he won't.

 

[Azul]

Well perhaps I'm more optimistic about Jeremy's future than the rest of you. His knee condition was badly managed throughout 2012 and it's thus taken him a good 18 months to get back into condition, both physically and mentally (confidence wise)

The point? Don't be too harsh on McInnes - he will take time.

 

[GoBlues!]

Don't get me wrong I know you still need experience and can't be a complete team of youngsters but surely between Simpson, Walker, Murphy, Jamieson, Thomas, Gibbs (if he stays), Judd (if he continues) Kruezer, Henderson we have enough experience. We can't keep picking the same team every year and expect different results.

As experienced as this group is, I still think we are lacking in players that can provide strong on field leadership. As Mick said in the press conference today, the top teams like Hawks, Freo and Geelong have the "go to" players the money men that stand up when opposition teams surge, to take back control. Players like Mitchell, Hodge, Bartel, Selwood etc. Judd is that player for us. Back in 1995 our on field leaders who included guys like - Kernahan, Williams, Bradley, Dean, Silvagni, Sexton, Madden, were that strong and experienced they could coach themselves, and they actually did!

The experienced players you mentioned above have shown patches in the last two games and some have shown very little, in terms on field leadership. Your suggestion of throwing out the likes of Waite, McLean etc, and bring in new players won't bring success unless we can improve our on field leadership group.

 

[Doro]

Well perhaps I'm more optimistic about Jeremy's future than the rest of you. His knee condition was badly managed throughout 2012 and it's thus taken him a good 18 months to get back into condition, both physically and mentally (confidence wise)

The point? Don't be too harsh on McInnes - he will take time.

Slow medium defender. Do you create a gameplan around a player that can be targeted in match-ups or look elsewhere? History will tell this tale.

 

[Azul]

Slow medium defender. Do you create a gameplan around a player that can be targeted in match-ups or look elsewhere? History will tell this tale.

His perceived lack of speed didn't hurt us when he played 19 games in 2011. Laids looked slow but read the play well and seemed to get his fist in for a spoil most of the time.

A backline is about teamwork between defenders and covering the spread. He had a good working relationship with Jamo, Hendo and Duigs in that regard.

 

[Doro]

His perceived lack of speed didn't hurt us when he played 19 games in 2011. Laids looked slow but read the play well and seemed to get his fist in for a spoil most of the time.

A backline is about teamwork between defenders and covering the spread. He had a good working relationship with Jamo, Hendo and Duigs in that regard.

He has certainly been the most obvious change in coaching viewpoint. Laids sees it, and uses it as well as any, though the lack of leg-speed still allows the mismatch. If he flourishes at the Swans, then kudos to you and Ratts.

 

[smashbox gill]

Enough beating about the bush if the club wants to move forward we need to start moving players off our list.

Scotland why was he rookie listed if there is no intent to play him? Wouldn't offer him another contract.

McLean sorry but we will not win a flag with this guy in our starting midfield. Not going to improve enough to challenge the Hawthorns of this world. Delist him at the end of the year.

Robinson the guy tries hard but his disposal just isn't good enough would he get a game at Geelong or Hawthorn I don't think so. Needs to be delisted also.

Waite time to move him on and let Casboult have a real crack at it.

Armfield just not good enough wouldn't get a game at top clubs and if we want to be a top club these are the hard decisions we must make.

Ellard how many years has he been on the list and cannot cement a spot enough said.

McInness compare him to a Mackie or Birchall he isn't even close to these guys doesn't influence the game enough would delist him also.

This may sound harsh but as a club we cannot simple keep picking the same team as we have been and expect different results. If we want to surge up the ladder big changes are required!!!!!!

will never be mackie or birchall because he doesnt provide enough offensively and never will. He's more of an Alan Toovey 3rd tall stopping defender