2015 Non-Crows AFL Discussion - Pt. 1

[alex_is_on_fire]

I want a year personally. Games makes it feel likes its just a on field misdemeanor like striking etc.

22 games then.

A year can be manipulated by the lawyers to shorten the term.

 

[Red mist]

Innocent until proven guilty is a civil right.

I know i'm contracticting myself by saying they should not be rewarded with a first round pick next year, thats why the AFL are in a massive pickle over this.

That's why I think docking points will appease lenient suspensions, com, the players are still training. Points are the only way it will hurt. Storm played for a yr without any.

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

That's why I think docking points will appease lenient suspensions, com, the players are still training. Points are the only way it will hurt. Storm played for a yr without any.

And won the premiership the year after.

A very strong message has to be sent to the other 17 clubs, don't try this again. They (Essendon) need some long term pain.

 

[Red mist]

And won the premiership the year after.

A very strong message has to be sent to the other 17 clubs, don't try this again. They (Essendon) need some long term pain.

I agree and want points included. That's just me. If they win the premiership the yr after the still have stigma. Culture forever tainted in our generation.

 

[SpeciousArgument]

From the AFL's perspective, the fact that it would be supported isn't their issue, the people in Tas are already AFL fans, they are already watching it on TV so a Tas team wouldn't increase the AFL's audience, it would just take supporters from other clubs away to the new side. Which is why they went to GWS and GC, nearly every fan they generate is a new fan to the AFL, increasing their TV ratings and the value of their next TV rights deal. The same is true for SA and WA, any new teams won't increase their ratings and bring new supporters to the AFL.

I dont buy that argument, part of the stated reason for the gold coast club was all the expats from the southern states moving up there. I think Tasmania has more of a population problem, there arent many of them and the few there are, are spread out. I couldnt see them getting more than 15k to a game.

 

[SpeciousArgument]

That may have cost Sando his job, though!

Possibly, but the club survived as strong as ever. Had the melbourne football club been given a penalty strong enough to discourage other clubs after being found guilty they genuinely might not have survived. As it was the small penalty they got for not tanking was defaulted on and carried by the AFL anyway

 

[fabs33]

Playing the devils advocate role - why should they be penalised twice.

In this case; because it's two different crimes. If I remember correctly the first set of penalties were handed down for not keeping records of what they were administering to their players and a second set would be for giving the players illegal substances.

 

[GROTTO]

Possibly, but the club survived as strong as ever. Had the melbourne football club been given a penalty strong enough to discourage other clubs after being found guilty they genuinely might not have survived. As it was the small penalty they got for not tanking was defaulted on and carried by the AFL anyway

Not a cheap shot at your post. But who cares. I wish Melbourne did go under and either relocate or merge. We need a smaller competition or at least to reduce the number of Victorian teams.

When was the last time Melbourne played finals and offered any hope to their supporters, throw in the Dogs too.

 

[SpeciousArgument]

Not a cheap shot at your post. But who cares. I wish Melbourne did go under and either relocate or merge. We need a smaller competition or at least to reduce the number of Victorian teams.

When was the last time Melbourne played finals and offered any hope to their supporters, throw in the Dogs too.

I dont disagree but from the AFLs perspective they cant afford to lose a club, tv deal and all that, and anyway ive got a bit of a soft spot for melbourne, my father played for norwood and a country club that used the navy and red with the 'grand old flag'

I do agree we need fewer teams in melbourne though. I think the competition should have been a new competition rather than expanding the VFL to begin with. I dont think its fair on supporters to relocate their teams, but having mergers would work without too much pain. 'Should' and 'may ever happen' are two very different things though.

 

[NikkiNoo]

Can't see how points can be part of the penalty.

I could be wrong (NikkiNoo ) but I isn't this current hearing only about finding if the players are subject to a penalty and sentencing that penalty.

The club has served its penalty in the AFL's eyes, and ASADA are not mandated to penalise clubs. Just athletes.

This Tribunal is looking into 34 players and one support person (Dank). Under the AFL code if 2 players get done from a club for a doping violation then Club penalties MAY apply is the actual wording in the code. I think if there were a number found guilty of a doping violation I am pretty damn sure that other clubs will not be happy if there are no other penalties meted out to Essendon. Little discovered that the other club Presidents are NOT happy with him/his club and the instigator of that was reported to be Chapman. Hence why when the Presidents met the AFL declared that there was to be no discussion of the Essendon investigation and it's why Little didn't actually turn up to the meeting.

The AFL only punished them for Governance violations. The original charge was doping violations but Essendon fought to make sure it only said Governance, thereby now leaving the door open to punish them again. They really are stupid to my way of thinking.

 

[Mattrox]

This Tribunal is looking into 34 players and one support person (Dank). Under the AFL code if 2 players get done from a club for a doping violation then Club penalties MAY apply is the actual wording in the code. I think if there were a number found guilty of a doping violation I am pretty damn sure that other clubs will not be happy if there are no other penalties meted out to Essendon. Little discovered that the other club Presidents are NOT happy with him/his club and the instigator of that was reported to be Chapman. Hence why when the Presidents met the AFL declared that there was to be no discussion of the Essendon investigation and it's why Little didn't actually turn up to the meeting.

The AFL only punished them for Governance violations. The original charge was doping violations but Essendon fought to make sure it only said Governance, thereby now leaving the door open to punish them again. They really are stupid to my way of thinking.

In the context of rules, the word MAY does not mean "might happen"...... rather it means "is authorized to happen"......


Eg.... Drinking alcohol on school grounds may result in suspension or expulsion..... really means suspension or expulsion are authorized penalties for said offense.

 

[NikkiNoo]

In the context of rules, the word MAY does not mean "might happen"...... rather it means "is authorized to happen"......


Eg.... Drinking alcohol on school grounds may result in suspension or expulsion..... really means suspension or expulsion are authorized penalties for said offense.

This is the AFL though... there are rules and then there are rules...

 

[Mattrox]

This is the AFL though... there are rules and then there are rules...

And then there is WADA.

 

[GROTTO]

And then there is WADA.

I can see only a years ban or more being the smallest penalty that WADA will accept.

 

[Mattrox]

I'm over making predictions, but just the texts between Golden Boy and Dank make them both culpable. They both need lifetime bans IMO.

 

[SpeciousArgument]

The tale of the TAB

obviously not a perfect predictor but i find it interesting to look at what the professional punters (the bookies) think will happen in 2015. Looking at the market for teams 2015 ladder position compared to their 2014 position in the first colum. The first number is the line for their total wins in 2015 (ie they are expected to get that many wins by the TAB, if you bet over or under that amount your return is ~even money) the number in brackets is their wins in 2014

Notables are cats expected to pick up ~4 less wins than they did last year, bulldogs to slide even after finishing 14th, richmond and pies to slide

Sydney to slide - 16 (17)
Hawks to slide - 16 (17)
Cats to slide - 13.5 (17)
Freo to slide - 14.5 (16)
Port to improve - 15 (14)
North to improve - 13.5 (14)
Essendon no market - no market (12)
Richmond to slide - 11.5 (12)
West coast to improve - 11.5 (11)
Crows to improve - 11.5 (11)
Pies to slide - 10 (11)
Suns to improve - 11 (10)
Carlton to improve - 9.5 (7)
Bulldogs to slide - 6.5 (7)
Brisbane to improve - 9.5 (7)
GWS to improve - 6.5 (6)
Melbourne to improve - 5.5 (4)
Saints no market - 4.5 (4)

 

[GROTTO]

Sydney to slide - 16 (17)
Hawks to slide - 16 (17)
Cats to slide - 13.5 (17)
Freo to slide - 14.5 (16)
Port to improve - 15 (14)
North to improve - 13.5 (14)
Essendon no market - no market (12)
Richmond to slide - 11.5 (12)
West coast to improve - 11.5 (11)
Crows to improve - 11.5 (11)
Pies to slide - 10 (11)
Suns to improve - 11 (10)
Carlton to improve - 9.5 (7)
Bulldogs to slide - 6.5 (7)
Brisbane to improve - 9.5 (7)
GWS to improve - 6.5 (6)
Melbourne to improve - 5.5 (4)
Saints no market - 4.5 (4)

Nice post. Punter by any chance? I love to punt so I am familiar already with these numbers, but its nice that you have provided a list.

I posted earlier, that ever since the Final 8 was set up:

Fun Facts.

Since the top eight was introduced in 1994, there has always been at least two changes from one season to the next.

There have been two changes seven times and as many as four turnovers on 10 occasions.

I have bolded the 5 teams that I believe are set to return to the 8 with as many as 3 positions possibly being up for grabs. Every year punters think this will be the year of the Geelong decline and yet they continue to persist.

FUN FACTS 2 - Geelong have won only 1 of their past 6 finals. They for me are just too reliant and carrying too many 31+ aged players.

I think this year we can expect, WC, GCS and I think we can crack the 8. Every supporter on their board bar the bottom 4 clubs believes they can crack the 8 so there is going to be disappointment as we all believe we can make it. I genuinely believe we can.

I have Geelong, Essendon (ASADA), and Tigers all missing in 2015. The Tigers I felt really were fortunate to land in the 8, admittedly winning their final 9 was impressive, if you look at those wins, I did feel some of them were soft. Beating Sydney who had nothing to gain by winning was their softest big scalp, with a deliberate Buddyless team. Putting things into perspective for them, had they lost we were in the 8 and Sando IMO would still be out coach. I dont believe the ROOthless attack would have had the destruction that it had, had we landed in there unless possibly we got pummeled by Port in the final possibly. In any case thats the past and its just pure speculation. No one knows what may or may not happen.

 

[NikkiNoo]

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/feb/09/afl-darren-jolly-undergoes-brain-surgery

Collingwood and Sydney Swans premiership ruckman Darren Jolly is waiting to hear if a lesion on his brain is cancerous after the 32-year-old, who currently appears on the Nine Network’s reality series The Block Triple Threat, underwent surgery in Melbourne.

Jolly was suffering from persistent headaches when he decided it was time to seek medical treatment, according to a Nine Network statement.

 

[Glenno23]

That's bloody scary!

Hope it turns out ok for him

 

[Godallblighty]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...s-nab-challenge-proposal-20150209-13a5qi.html

Every listed Essendon player from 2012 would be allowed to withdraw from all 2015 pre-season games under an AFL proposal that would help hide the identities of Bombers players charged with taking performance-enhancing drugs.

Say, what?

AFL bosses, led by chief executive Gillon McLachlan, have also tried but to date failed to secure an undertaking from ASADA chief Ben McDevitt that should the league lift provisional suspensions for the 34 players they could still backdate any penalties to their last senior game of 2014.

And whaaat??

AFL Players Association boss Paul Marsh is understood to share Essendon's health and safety concerns. With only about 12 senior and rookie-listed players expected to be available should all 2012-listed players withdraw from the NAB Challenge, the players' union and Essendon have strongly told the AFL the club could be breaching its duty of care to those younger or less-experienced footballers.

What the....Oh, forget it.

 

[SpeciousArgument]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...s-nab-challenge-proposal-20150209-13a5qi.html

Say, what?

And whaaat??

What the....Oh, forget it.

Utter. Farce.

 

[Pdub]

Let them play NAB challenge, there's no prize attached to it, let them play in the regular season but Essendon forfeits points automatically when suspended players take to the field.

 

[cmndstab]

If it's a breach of care to allow a team of juniors to play, that's an easy situation to fix. Essendon just don't get to play.

 

[RodnyDangrfield]

If it's a breach of care to allow a team of juniors to play, that's an easy situation to fix. Essendon just don't get to play.

Only issue with that is the teams that were hoping to play essendon in the NAB cup, although I think essendon should get the book thrown at them, not brushed like under King Slug Demitriou, it affects the other teams preparations, they should be forced to field a team regardless of the possible charges. They are taking the AFL for a ride, someone please in the AFL, GROW A SET!

 

[mattymac]

Essendon players threatening to boycott the pre-season comp to hide the identities of team mates charged with illegal doping...talk about the tail wagging the dog.

I hope we're taking note of how to play the AFL if our turn ever comes up again. Make like a Russian and deny, deny, deny until nobody cares anymore.