Position 2016 Defenders

[Here2tellyouwhy]

On Birchall, he's only 28. Thats a pretty good age. With ROughy gone and the mighty power of the Hawks slightly reduced this year, the ball may be back in defence a bit more.

On this, it will really be interesting to see if Birch will ever be a midfielder. It has been spoken about, but really I think he's better down back.
If he is mid. He's in. No problem.

Birchall isn't a mid. Pass for me.

It's like picking Blicavs at M5 instead of R2.

 

[Keg on legs]

Surely with swallow out now, and Prestia / JOM being held back, it makes for an even bigger watch on lonergan and what role he plays for the remaining games.

 

[PowerDrafter]

Surely with swallow out now, and Prestia / JOM being held back, it makes for an even bigger watch on lonergan and what role he plays for the remaining games.

Agreed but I also think Aaron Hall is another guy to benefit hugely from this. It looks as though Swallow is out for the first month of the season, Prestia probably the first few weeks and who knows with O'meara, could be as late as round 10. What do you see Lonergan doing once they come back into the side because as shown from NAB one, he's probably GC's best contested player (note Brisbane were last last season for contested ball). Do Swallow, Prestia and O'meara come straight back in and play midfield or will they be eased back in through half back and half forward.

 

[Keg on legs]

Agreed but I also think Aaron Hall is another guy to benefit hugely from this. It looks as though Swallow is out for the first month of the season, Prestia probably the first few weeks and who knows with O'meara, could be as late as round 10. What do you see Lonergan doing once they come back into the side because as shown from NAB one, he's probably GC's best contested player (note Brisbane were last last season for contested ball). Do Swallow, Prestia and O'meara come straight back in and play midfield or will they be eased back in through half back and half forward.

Gotta admit I have no idea on lonergan and what he will return to once they're at full strength. But I guess, if he takes his chances, he may be too valuable to move off the ball. And besides, he will have made his cash by then.

Agree re hall though, I currently have him sitting at F4

 

[PowerDrafter]

Gotta admit I have no idea on lonergan and what he will return to once they're at full strength. But I guess, if he takes his chances, he may be too valuable to move off the ball. And besides, he will have made his cash by then.

Agree re hall though, I currently have him sitting at m4

Lonergan was supercoach star at under 18's level just on his contested ball alone, could be the Rory Laird of this year. In saying that, Gold Coast's midfield does run pretty deep.

• Gary Ablett
• David Swallow
• Dion Prestia
• Jaeger O'meara
• Michael Rischitelli
• Matt Rosa
• Touk Miller
• Mitch Hallahan
• Matt Shaw
• Kade Kolodashjni
• Aaron Hall
• Jesse Lonergan
• Jarrad Grant
• Jack Martin
• Jarrod Garlett

That's a lot of guys who can run through the middle of the ground and the wings. You'd think 10 of those guys are definitely best 22 and that doesn't include Lonergan, so we're talking about 11 players of the 22 out there each week capable of running through the middle. That is a lot.

 

[TheBuzz]

Would Sam Mayes be a good option over Aish, looked super tidy off half back yesterday in rubbish conditions.

Sam Mayes has an elite ability to go missing. Running machine & seems to get to the right spots & yet can spectacularly avoid getting the pill.

 

[Double the Fist]

Lonergan was supercoach star at under 18's level just on his contested ball alone, could be the Rory Laird of this year. In saying that, Gold Coast's midfield does run pretty deep.

• Gary Ablett
• David Swallow
• Dion Prestia
• Jaeger O'meara
• Michael Rischitelli
• Matt Rosa
• Touk Miller
• Mitch Hallahan
• Matt Shaw
• Kade Kolodashjni
• Aaron Hall
• Jesse Lonergan
• Jarrad Grant
• Jack Martin
• Jarrod Garlett

That's a lot of guys who can run through the middle of the ground and the wings. You'd think 10 of those guys are definitely best 22 and that doesn't include Lonergan, so we're talking about 11 players of the 22 out there each week capable of running through the middle. That is a lot.

Thats a major concern indeed. He was a run with player last year for stints as Eade was 'educating' him. I fear he may just as well revert back to that when he has a full midfield. Kinda means a sideways trade once their midfield is up and going. Gee, thats a massive gamble isnt' it PD.

 

[Super Hans]

Surely with swallow out now, and Prestia / JOM being held back, it makes for an even bigger watch on lonergan and what role he plays for the remaining games.

I really can't decide between him and Sheridan. Both were impressive in their NAB games.

 

[fargy]

You're wrong about Jordan Roughead playing ruck this year, bud.


"The first ruck position is one in particular that will be hotly contested across the next month of the preseason competition.

A handful shared the responsibility in 2015, and Beveridge said form will be the ultimate decider for who’s rewarded with the round one start.

“All of our potential candidates will play through there during the NAB series and whoever plays the best will grab the one or two, or even three spots for that first game against Fremantle,” he said.

“It’s between Will [Minson], it’s between Tommy Campbell, Tommy Boyd, Jack Redpath who we know pinch hit there last year, and Luke Goetz.

“It will take him a while, but it’s probably between those five guys, whether or not they’ll share the load or we’ve got one or two who have a 50/50 type approach.”

http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/2016-02-24/form-will-decide-ruck-role

Different to what it says here, and in the press conference Bev definitely mentions Roughead.

 

[Krujan]

Different to what it says here, and in the press conference Bev definitely mentions Roughead.
View attachment 219130

That's 6 guys not 5. Weird how the Doggies website removed the bit about Roughead...

 

[Super Hans]

That's 6 guys not 5. Weird how the Doggies website removed the bit about Roughead...

Having watched the press conference he definitely has Rough as one of the five and not Goetz.

Roughead will probably be our second ruck to Campbell/Minson.

 

[Bont2Bruce]

Who do you think will be top 10 averaging defenders at the end of the year?

For me, Shaw, Boyd and McVeigh are locks.

Laird, KK, Houli and Rance are quite likely.

And I'd probably say Bartel, Enright and Simpson are very probable (Birchall is my smokey).

Obviously that's quite an old top 10, and I'm sure there'll be a couple more youngsters in there.

I believe you are focussed on top 10 defenders for average SC per game, when the real issue is who will be the top 10 defenders for total SC across the season.

Boyd was outside the 2015 top 10 defenders based on totals (came 11th). As was Simpson (14th) and Bartel was way down the list.

Durability is very important when choosing your starting players, because you want them to be keepers.

 

[Phoenix_9]

I believe you are focussed on top 10 defenders for average SC per game, when the real issue is who will be the top 10 defenders for total SC across the season.

Boyd was outside the 2015 top 10 defenders based on totals (came 11th). As was Simpson (14th) and Bartel was way down the list.

Durability is very important when choosing your starting players, because you want them to be keepers.

Yes I was focussing on average, and yes you need to account for any games certain players might miss.

Do we not pick Fyfe or Ablett or Rocky because they're likely to miss games? No, we pick them because they're the best players and hope they stay on the field. And the few games they do miss will counteract the need for rookies to fill in for them.

Should the same argument be made for Matthew Boyd? Say he plays 18 games again at an average of 104, and we have to utilise 4 rookie scores of an average of 60. That equates to a season average of only 96 for boyd. Which still would have had him top 6 in the competition (or very close).

 

[Bont2Bruce]

Yes I was focussing on average, and yes you need to account for any games certain players might miss.

Do we not pick Fyfe or Ablett or Rocky because they're likely to miss games? No, we pick them because they're the best players and hope they stay on the field. And the few games they do miss will counteract the need for rookies to fill in for them.

Should the same argument be made for Matthew Boyd? Say he plays 18 games again at an average of 104, and we have to utilise 4 rookie scores of an average of 60. That equates to a season average of only 96 for boyd. Which still would have had him top 6 in the competition (or very close).

A different case can usually be made for the top average players across the entire comp because we all need to pick a captain and vice captain each week.

Even the best defenders however do not rank in the highest averaging players across the comp.

I wouldn't expect DEF rookies to average 60 either, often see scores of less than that.

Boyd and Bartel are certainties not to play every game. Their coaches have both gone on the record in the last few weeks saying as much. I'd much rather take a Rance or Houli for a few ppg less and not have to cover those missed games with rookie scores. 30-40 ppg dropped on 3-4 rounds is a lot more points lost than 3-4 ppg across 22 games.

 

[DraftPunk]

I believe you are focussed on top 10 defenders for average SC per game, when the real issue is who will be the top 10 defenders for total SC across the season.

Boyd was outside the 2015 top 10 defenders based on totals (came 11th). As was Simpson (14th) and Bartel was way down the list.

Durability is very important when choosing your starting players, because you want them to be keepers.

I think it's worth looking back a bit further than just last year though. Prior to 2015, Simpson & Bartel would have been top 5 for total points for the previous 5+ years running. Both durable players over their careers.

 

[Phoenix_9]

A different case can usually be made for the top average players across the entire comp because we all need to pick a captain and vice captain each week.

Even the best defenders however do not rank in the highest averaging players across the comp.

I wouldn't expect DEF rookies to average 60 either, often see scores of less than that.

Boyd and Bartel are certainties not to play every game. Their coaches have both gone on the record in the last few weeks saying as much. I'd much rather take a Rance or Houli for a few ppg less and not have to cover those missed games with rookie scores. 30-40 ppg dropped on 3-4 rounds is a lot more points lost than 3-4 ppg across 22 games.

Oxley, Saad, Mcintosh, etc definitively average over 60.... Heaps do.

Anyways I'm not taking Boyd. I'm just making an argument for him, seeing as we know he'll miss a few games minimum. And in all likely hood so will Fyfe, yet we don't even question him (mostly because he's the best and a captain option).

However, I am taking Bartel, because he's underpriced and even if he misses 2-3 games, I think he's worth it for his price.

 

[Bont2Bruce]

I think it's worth looking back a bit further than just last year though. Prior to 2015, Simpson & Bartel would have been top 5 for total points for the previous 5+ years running. Both durable players over their careers.

Actually doesn't matter how durable they were 5 years ago, they are now on the wrong side of 33!
Rare for anyone at that stage of their career to player all games in a season.
Career durability won't stop old man's curse (the calf injury) for instance.

 

[Bont2Bruce]

Oxley, Saad, Mcintosh, etc definitively average over 60.... Heaps do.

Exceptions, because as a rule I would not expect my DEF rookies to average 60.

I'm continually mystified as to why so many teams keep going into the RMT thread filled with 6 cheap defenders. The mid rookies are the ones who can regularly get to an average of 60 and often enough can hit 70 or even 80.

Teams with too many DEF rookies just won't generate enough cash to upgrade all their lines.

 

[Super Hans]

You've gotta take into account what the injuries are too. Bartel only have collision injuries, yeah? Not like he was pinging hammys and calfs.

 

[Double the Fist]

Exceptions, because as a rule I would not expect my DEF rookies to average 60.

I'm continually mystified as to why so many teams keep going into the RMT thread filled with 6 cheap defenders. The mid rookies are the ones who can regularly get to an average of 60 and often enough can hit 70 or even 80.

Teams with too many DEF rookies just won't generate enough cash to upgrade all their lines.

One of the reasons I have 6 ATM is the fact that the back line is so poor point wise. Mids high up are a dime a dozen, there are 15 more who are maybe premos. You look at the backline and its just a desert.
In the near futre I think my backline will be, Shaw, Laird, Bartel, maybe Lonnergan then rookies. 4 of the bastards!!!
Also, agree fully on the mid rookies getting best value. Its just the backs are so hard to pick.

 

[Bont2Bruce]

One of the reasons I have 6 ATM is the fact that the back line is so poor point wise. Mids high up are a dime a dozen, there are 15 more who are maybe premos. You look at the backline and its just a desert.
In the near futre I think my backline will be, Shaw, Laird, Bartel, maybe Lonnergan then rookies. 4 of the bastards!!!
Also, agree fully on the mid rookies getting best value. Its just the backs are so hard to pick.

4 cheap defenders is my structure also at the moment. But if we don't see enough DEF rookies named for R1, that may have to be reduced to 3.

 

[Phoenix_9]

Exceptions, because as a rule I would not expect my DEF rookies to average 60.

I'm continually mystified as to why so many teams keep going into the RMT thread filled with 6 cheap defenders. The mid rookies are the ones who can regularly get to an average of 60 and often enough can hit 70 or even 80.

Teams with too many DEF rookies just won't generate enough cash to upgrade all their lines.

I generally only ever start with 2 defensive rookies on field, because usually there's only a couple that have any decent scoring ability, but they aren't exceptions, there's always 2 defensive rookies that score well (by well I mean 60-75+). But to be honest, this year I am struggling to see who atm.

Mitch Brown I can see averaging 60+, Broad maybe 60 (if he gets a gig). Other than that, we can't be expecting many points.... Any more than 2 defensive rookies this year and I think you're making a mistake.

 

[Double the Fist]

4 cheap defenders is my structure also at the moment. But if we don't see enough DEF rookies named for R1, that may have to be reduced to 3.

Yup. Maybe even Salem from Melbz may get a gig.

 

[Knifey Spoony]

Any thoughts on a Seedsman or Suckling having a big season at their new clubs?

 

[cotter101]

Agreed but I also think Aaron Hall is another guy to benefit hugely from this. It looks as though Swallow is out for the first month of the season, Prestia probably the first few weeks and who knows with O'meara, could be as late as round 10. What do you see Lonergan doing once they come back into the side because as shown from NAB one, he's probably GC's best contested player (note Brisbane were last last season for contested ball). Do Swallow, Prestia and O'meara come straight back in and play midfield or will they be eased back in through half back and half forward.

He'll be very interesting to keep an eye on. Was great against us in the NAB game, even though our midfield consisted of Robinson, Lester(didn't play a full game iirc and a bunch of rookies.