2016 Draft discussion

[The Flying Belgian]

Yeah I definitely agree with that sentiment - it's tough to compete on-field when we spend less on football department and equipment etc. My understanding is that Collingwood's facilities helped push VFL Superstar James Aish over the line when he visited.

"It is understood..."

 

[M Malice]

To many posts I'd like to quote and respond to, but there would be a few repetitive responses, so I'm just going to add my thoughts in a single post.

I listened to the latest Road to the Draft podcast with Kenner Beatson. He mentioned two different routes to contending, both I agree with, but only one applies to Lions as I see the team right now. Beatson said of his time at the Lions, that the team deliberately went for a youth movement in the early to mid 90's and this resulted in the team that threepeated. That's basically what I have been advocating, suggesting that by bottoming out for about three years, we can draft a best player available, as well as adding top Academy talent, and picking up possible draft sliders. We could possibly draft 12 to 15 core players in that three year period, and then continue adding top Academy talent as we climb the ladder, or add solid interstate talent with a mid first round pick if the Academy is having a down year, such as the Swans academy this year isn't projected to produce a first round talented player.

I know it's early days, and a lot can change over the next 7 months, but this years draft pool is not expected produce as many KPP as last year, and I'm not sure if there are more than two projected Rucks in this draft, and I believe at least one of those is an over age player. Next years draft is expected to contain a decent spread of KPP, rucks and mids. This years first round is mainly viewed as either Academy talent, mids or undersized KPF's or smaller forward types with question marks.

There are four non Academy midfielders expected to be available (at this stage - they could slide back or others players/positions climb in to contention) at the top end of the draft. A Forward/inside midfielder, two contested inside midfielders, and a much hyped (and supposed Lions supporter) W.A midfield utility who is said to have similar traits to Shaun Burgoyne/Sam Mitchell/Cyril Rioli.

Personally, if the Lions end with a top 3 draft pick this year, I would be willing to trade over the odds to acquire another top 3 draft pick for the chance to draft both Sam Petrevski-Seton and William Brodie. Only players off the table would be our top 6 young players and next years first and second round draft picks.

My one concern about the Lions future is the talk I have read on here that the club isn't willing to spend the money off the field to provide a first class set up. Rarely does a sporting team succeed where appropriate facilities aren't available. It's usually a sign that the club lacks true ambition. And yes I realise that financial realities do come in to play

like your views, would love SPS and brodie or McGluggage at the club although i do not see us having the ability to trade up to another pick in the top few. what could we offer clubs like carlton, essendon, GWS that are likely to have top 3/4 picks?

the only club likely would be GWS as they will be in contention for a flag over the next few years although the only players on our list to maybe get their first pick would be d.beams, hanley, rockliff and that would never happen IMO.

 

[briztoon]

like your views, would love SPS and brodie or McGluggage at the club although i do not see us having the ability to trade up to another pick in the top few. what could we offer clubs like carlton, essendon, GWS that are likely to have top 3/4 picks?

the only club likely would be GWS as they will be in contention for a flag over the next few years although the only players on our list to maybe get their first pick would be d.beams, hanley, rockliff and that would never happen IMO.

I'm to new to all this, so honestly have no idea what we could possibly offer.

If the club made it plainly obvious that it did not believe it was pushing for finals football over the next 3 years and was going to focus on youth and player development would any of the star senior players look to move to a better situation? Secondly, does it have to be a two team trade? Could it not be a three team trade where a team looking to push over the hump would offer up a first round draft pick and possibly a young developing player.

For example:

Brisbane give up unnamed star midfielder and a 2016 second draft pick.
Team with second pick gives up second pick.
Unnamed team gives 2016 first round draft pick & young player drafted in 2015 second round.

Brisbane receive 2016 second draft pick.
Unnamed team receives unnamed star Lions midfielder.
Team receives first round draft pick, second round draft pick and young player drafted in 2015 second round.

 

[jjami15]

I'm to new to all this, so honestly have no idea what we could possibly offer.

If the club made it plainly obvious that it did not believe it was pushing for finals football over the next 3 years and was going to focus on youth and player development would any of the star senior players look to move to a better situation? Secondly, does it have to be a two team trade? Could it not be a three team trade where a team looking to push over the hump would offer up a first round draft pick and possibly a young developing player.

For example:

Brisbane give up unnamed star midfielder and a 2016 second draft pick.
Team with second pick gives up second pick.
Unnamed team gives 2016 first round draft pick & young player drafted in 2015 second round.

Brisbane receive 2016 second draft pick.
Unnamed team receives unnamed star Lions midfielder.
Team receives first round draft pick, second round draft pick and young player drafted in 2015 second round.

One has to have an understanding of the climate/environment/situation that the Brisbane Lions currently are in. We had the 5 leave a few yrs ago, Aish last year, Mayes most probably this year and that's just a small snippet over time. We live in market where we are not top dog (Broncos/Reds when they're winning) and our supporter base is quite fickle, we win we get to the Gabba, we lose we go watch another sport. We are not a traditional market and majority of our list is from others parts of Australia and doing such things to the Leaders of our club tends to send a negative message to the youth.

Now that's also not to say that I don't agree with you. St Kilda has done something similar and do have a good young list. Collingwood have also done something similar and eventhough injuries have derailed their season most pundits would say they also have good youngsters. The difference with them is they have a strong traditional fan base and will continue to follow them as they dip down the ladder.

I am forever frustrated with our lack of improvement and propping up the ladder each for the last five years. We just have to nail our drafts irrespective of what picks they are. Geelong successfully did this in the early 2000's over 2/3 drafts. I'm quite happy with the players we got in the 2013 draft, Andrews in the 2014 and the crop from last year. It is quite evident that this and next year are vital. I'm not that sold on this years draft and this might change but acquiring the best at our pick then the academy boys. Next year is rated quite high already and if any one was to leave I would be asking for picks next year.

 

[James North]

"It is understood..."

Yeah but this is the ABC version, not the News Corp version...

 

[dlanod]

The Qld squad for their next game against NT (academy prospects bolded, italics can't be prelisted, asterisks are under-agers):

b: Jacob Kenny (21) - Declan Watson (37) - Luke O'Sullivan (27)
hb: Connor West (35) - Max Spencer (24) - Jack Clayton* (18)
c: Reid Gordon* (29) - Brad Scheer (16) - Daniel Charlesworth (10)
hf: Josh Williams (19) - Elliot Himmelberg (20) - Jacob Allison (15)
f: Nick Kempe (2) - Shawn Watson (23) - Joel Perry Warren (17)
r: Nate Dennis (30) - Jack Bowes (3) - Jack Rolls (6)
i: Brodie Foster (13) - Curtis Marsden (7) - Jacob Dawson (4) - Luca Mason (26) - Harry Simington (25)

In: Kenny, West, Foster, Dawson, Simington
Out: Gareth Hunt, Connor Ballenden*, Ryan Dadds, Brayden Crossley, Campbell Walker

 

[JasRulz63]

I know the positions players are named in don't mean much these days, but it would be good to see Rolls play through the midfield more to see how he goes.

 

[captainrich]

fairly GC dominated squad

 

[dlanod]

I know the positions players are named in don't mean much these days, but it would be good to see Rolls play through the midfield more to see how he goes.

That was the highlight of checking it out myself.

 

[Panthera]

Yeah I definitely agree with that sentiment - it's tough to compete on-field when we spend less on football department and equipment etc. My understanding is that Collingwood's facilities helped push VFL Superstar James Aish over the line when he visited.

What % improvement do you see us having if / when we move on from our league worst training facilities?

 

[James North]

What % improvement do you see us having if / when we move on from our league worst training facilities?

I think the more accurate question is what % of better players could we attract if we move on.

I don't think it'll improve the current crop, but it'll mean we end up with less Ryder style BBQs.

 

[winged1]

We are in a competitive environment to attract talent, without the facilities of other clubs we are behind right from the start. Which is why basing the training facility at Springfield, Burpengary, Logan, hell even the airport is not a great solution.

 

[Panthera]

I think the more accurate question is what % of better players could we attract if we move on.

I don't think it'll improve the current crop, but it'll mean we end up with less Ryder style BBQs.

I do. Not sure what % exactly but clubs have equipment that we simply don't. It'd have to improve their want to train better.

 

[briztoon]

There was a bit of hype around Jacob Allison coming in to the season. And he's still rated in the top 20 in most draft pundits rankings.

Yet by all reports he hasn't performed up to expectations so far this season. Anyone know what the cause for this may be?

I wonder when he starts to slide down most draft rankings.

 

[dlanod]

There was a bit of hype around Jacob Allison coming in to the season. And he's still rated in the top 20 in most draft pundits rankings.

Yet by all reports he hasn't performed up to expectations so far this season. Anyone know what the cause for this may be?

I wonder when he starts to slide down most draft rankings.

To some degree coming into the draft year, kids are largely rated on their highlights reel. In their draft year they then become rated on how often they can produce those highlights. Allison definitely satisfies the former still, but his actual production is lacking.

 

[Quigley]

There was a bit of hype around Jacob Allison coming in to the season. And he's still rated in the top 20 in most draft pundits rankings.

Yet by all reports he hasn't performed up to expectations so far this season. Anyone know what the cause for this may be?

I wonder when he starts to slide down most draft rankings.

I had heard he had some off season issues and he came into the season underdone.

 

[SizeMatters]

Big difference between GWS academy players and ours. They are much bigger and are almost ready made players so to speak.

 

[jjami15]

To some degree coming into the draft year, kids are largely rated on their highlights reel. In their draft year they then become rated on how often they can produce those highlights. Allison definitely satisfies the former still, but his actual production is lacking.

He also did make the All Australian u/18 team as an underage player. I reckon it will be a case similar to Dawson's in that he was highly rated due to being in a similar position and then in his draft year there is an increase of players his age playing in the national champs. I also think for Allison he is being thrown a bit position wise which is hard for a young player.

 

[WA Lion]

I had heard he had some off season issues and he came into the season underdone.

As in injuries? How has his movement/fitness been in the games you have seen?

 

[briztoon]

Big difference between GWS academy players and ours. They are much bigger and are almost ready made players so to speak.

A lot of questions in regards how much involvement many of the GWS kids actually have with the club. If you listen to the "talk", GWS has had little to do with the actually development of many of the kids.

 

[briztoon]

I'm not sure if I've asked this before or not, but with the Lions academy, how much contact does the club have with the kids and how much can the club be credited with the development of these kids?

It reads like most kids belong to their local club, and have limited contact with the Lions.

Unlike southern states, most QLD kids finish school when they are 17. Do most of our draft eligible players train with the senior team and/or reserves?

 

[WA Lion]

I'm not sure if I've asked this before or not, but with the Lions academy, how much contact does the club have with the kids and how much can the club be credited with the development of these kids?

It reads like most kids belong to their local club, and have limited contact with the Lions.

Unlike southern states, most QLD kids finish school when they are 17. Do most of our draft eligible players train with the senior team and/or reserves?

when available (i.e. not playing for QLD U18's), a lot of draft eligible academy kids actually play for our reserves. Keays and Hipwood played last year, and Allison and Rolls this year I think. Plus I'm pretty sure our academy is much more hands on then GWS academy for example (i.e. we don't have kids at boarding school playing TAC cup). Pretty sure all of our academy kids are based locally

 

[Dylan12]

In regards to how much the club has to do with academy players, I seem to recall from numerous articles last year that Keays and Hipwood pretty much had exclusive access to the club to utilise gym facilities and physios etc. Whether they also had access to one-on-one coaching i.e. video reviews of their games etc., I have no idea.

 

[DanT7]

I'd rookie list BrAdie Foster. Yep.

 

[JasRulz63]

NT vs. QLD steam tomorrow at 10am AEST - http://livestream.com/accounts/8820789/events/5381534