2016 Draft discussion

[WhiteLionFeva]

All bids after the first round have a fixed 197 point discount.

OK, thanks for that. All very confusing for an aging mind.

 

[spotthedog1]

It's actually 522 - 197 = 325 points payable.

That would turn pick 21 next year into 34.

Minor difference but yeah. Definitely feels like we are sending a message to other teams that if you bid in the second round you better be prepared to take them.

Ah. Yes. Now, there's a way to view this as me being wrong. But that's just one point of view... What actually happened is, I forgot about that other rule. So rather than me being wrong, I'd prefer to think I was just forgetful.

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

Ah. Yes. Now, there's a way to view this as me being wrong. But that's just one point of view... What actually happened is, I forgot about that other rule. So rather than me being wrong, I'd prefer to think I was just forgetful.

I think the pollies call it an error of judgment.

 

[Dizzle]

guess we dont have many WA boys on our list currently besides Paperone? who has also had his share of issues (stayed strong with the club though top bloke) but i guess were probably hesitant to bring more WA boys in given there is no connection there with any of the players

Robertson, Rich, Jansen, Bewick + Paps.

That's a fair chunk. We've done OK from WA over the years.

 

[Lace Out]

Not long to go now thank goodness.

I think we should all do the right thing by the mods and start drinking around lunchtime

 

[spotthedog1]

I think the pollies call it an error of judgment.

No no no. I made no error. If I'm a politician, then my brain gave me the wrong information, and therefore I can state that I wasn't wrong, I was just provided with the wrong information. I can then demand a royal commission into the error and look like I'm being proactive, and not just wasting taxpayer dollars.

 

[harvester]

Feel free to explain how Ainsworth is the better talent. Many many people, both professional and amateur, have written up their explanations as to why McCluggage is the better talent, so I'm curious to hear the counter-point.

Nobody truly knows how good these guys will be. They obviously have shown talent. A couple of years time we will know if we have drafted well.

 

[captainrich]

Robertson, Rich, Jansen, Bewick + Paps.

That's a fair chunk. We've done OK from WA over the years.

my bad

 

[harvester]

I see where you're coming from, but I think it's a bigger gamble to start sacrificing talent for no reason other than the mismanagement of the past. I don't think any other club would even contemplate passing on McCluggage at 3 (bar GWS due to the list they have), and if we're going to just because we're worried he might be a flight risk, then we may as well give up on aiming to be a competitive club now.

It's also worth mentioning that the only evidence people have for worrying about whether or not McCluggage will be happy here is the fact that he hasn't actively said he wants to play for the Lions. That's an awful metric to go off.

At some stage, you have to back your system in and fill your list with the best talent available to you, rather than jumping at shadows of homesickness and trying to keep yourself safe. Ultimately talent should be the one thing not compromised on.

I think a player stating that they'd like to play for your club can only ever be considered a nice bonus. I'm not sure it's ever good to let that come into your actual calculations. It's like the single person who settles for a partner who likes them rather than trying their luck with the person they really like.

I just think that the only scenario in which we should pick anybody over McCluggage should be because we view them as a better footballer.

My opinion is purely from what I have heard on here and read in the media, and judging by that Ainsworth could potentially be a great player, maybe better than mcgluggage . Of course the lions will make what they believe is the best decision for the club.. I tend to think they were err on the side of caution though.

 

[jackess]

My opinion is purely from what I have heard on here and read in the media, and judging by that Ainsworth could potentially be a great player, maybe better than mcgluggage . Of course the lions will make what they believe is the best decision for the club.. I tend to think they were err on the side of caution though.

Potentially pick 94 could be better than McCluggage but if McCluggage is most likely to be the best player available at our pick then we should pick him.

 

[SizeMatters]

My concern with McCluggage is that he doesn't have the frame and athletic gifts that will allow his game to succeed at AFL level.

He has narrow shoulders, some one else mentioned thin wrists. My concern is he doesn't have the frame to fill out to handle the rigours to play an inside and outside game at AFL level. He doesn't have top end speed. He's about to step in to an environment where everyone is bigger, and faster, and more intense.

He's not going to have the same space and time.

You see it in many sports at junior level where kids with elite skills fail at the pro level because they don't have the body, athleticism and speed to compete.

If you take a good look at Ainsworth, not only does he already have a developed body, he's got long arms and large hands, to go with elite speed. He's got the physical gifts to succeed, along with the game sense to play multiple positions.

McCluggage could be special, he could also be found out.

That last line is were I sit at with Hugh. Agree with everything you said here and I'm getting a bit of Aish vibes from him. Not the fact that he refuses to win the hard ball but the body compositions between the two. Someone mentioned Hugh plays like Cotchin and I agree. Cotchin is a gun but the game has changed since his great year of 2012 with bigger midfielders and more emphasis on clean contested possessions. He struggled a lot the past 2 years especially because he is simply too small.

 

[Hollow Knight]

That last line is were I sit at with Hugh. Agree with everything you said here and I'm getting a bit of Aish vibes from him. Not the fact that he refuses to win the hard ball but the body compositions between the two. Someone mentioned Hugh plays like Cotchin and I agree. Cotchin is a gun but the game has changed since his great year of 2012 with bigger midfielders and more emphasis on clean contested possessions. He struggled a lot the past 2 years especially because he is simply too small.

Doesn't that make you see incredible potential for upside once he steps into a professional environment?

Thin wrists aside

 

[The Flying Belgian]

My concern with McCluggage is that he doesn't have the frame and athletic gifts that will allow his game to succeed at AFL level.

He has narrow shoulders, some one else mentioned thin wrists. My concern is he doesn't have the frame to fill out to handle the rigours to play an inside and outside game at AFL level. He doesn't have top end speed. He's about to step in to an environment where everyone is bigger, and faster, and more intense.

He's not going to have the same space and time.

You see it in many sports at junior level where kids with elite skills fail at the pro level because they don't have the body, athleticism and speed to compete.

If you take a good look at Ainsworth, not only does he already have a developed body, he's got long arms and large hands, to go with elite speed. He's got the physical gifts to succeed, along with the game sense to play multiple positions.

McCluggage could be special, he could also be found out.

This guy, who McCluggage is often likened to went orright. And Ainsworth could go all Ash McGrath and struggle with body shape all his life.

 

[Balony_pony16]

Terrible? What the hell man?

It was a bloody great trade for us. Considering those late picks were essentially useless to us, we basically downgraded our first round pick by one spot in order to upgrade pick 31 to pick 16.

It was a great deal, and it looks like we may potentially get the #1 player on our draft board with pick 3 anyway, which turns a great trade into an amazing one.

You actually don't have to screw another team over to get a good trade result. The academy points system opens the door for some great mutually beneficial trade scenarios.

I think at the time people may have disliked the trade because they wanted McGrath or McCluggage badly. I know I was disappointed to "Lose" a chance at getting McCluggage at the time. fast forward a month and we may get McCluggage anyway...Winner winner chicken dinner!!!

 

[Quigley]

I think this is the fifth draft that Canole has been involved in for us. We have yet to take an indigenous player. Will the duck be broken this year?

 

[Bucking Beads]

Tonight it will be McCluggage with the lot thanks. Our next 3 picks will be used on 3 unique players with different skill sets. Then we will add some academy talent.

 

[Kevvo]

I think this is the fifth draft that Canole has been involved in for us. We have yet to take an indigenous player. Will the duck be broken this year?

Josh McGuinness has indigenous heritage I think.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-02-13/no-buddy-for-all-stars

 

[Billy Puller]

This guy, who McCluggage is is often likened to went orright. And Ainsworth could go all Ash McGrath and struggle with body shape all his life.

Check out Nat Fyfe too he was a string bean at u18s. Aish was always a soft outside player, I have not read nor heard anyone claiming McCluggage to be in the same mould.

 

[Rack Watts]

Do you guys want McCluggage or Ainsworth?

 

[pulpdriver]

Do you guys want McCluggage or Ainsworth?

McCluggage but I don't care too much which one we end up with. Both project as improving us up forward short term and being dynamic midfielders long term.

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

If Conole et al get to call out McCluggage's name tonight I doubt they'll be able to contain their excitement. We probably never expected to get him at pick 2, let alone pick 3.

 

[briztoon]

Doesn't any third or fourth round deficits come off the picks we traded to Collingwood?

No.

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

If Conole et al get to call out McCluggage's name tonight I doubt they'll be able to contain their excitement. We probably never expected to get him at pick 2, let alone pick 3.

 

[pulpdriver]

If Conole et al get to call out McCluggage's name tonight I doubt they'll be able to contain their excitement. We probably never expected to get him at pick 2, let alone pick 3.

For quite a while I'd simply put him out of mind because it seemed like a foregone conclusion Bombers would take him. I guess they still might but it's looking more and more likely.

 

[SizeMatters]

Doesn't that make you see incredible potential for upside once he steps into a professional environment?

Thin wrists aside

Yeah his potential is insane just that will his body allow him to fulfil it? We see every year highly rated draftees struggle in an AFL environment because they just can't get their body right. Grant, Aish, Billings, Cook, Morton... etc.

Ha yeah not sure why I was using thin wrists as a marker for potential to build core mass and strength but I guess from 'bro-science' it possibly hold true but difference between professional athletes and park footballers.