List Mgmt. 2016 Free Agency/Trades/Draft thread Part 2

[ad victoriam]

Very presumptuous. It could close this year. See 2009. See 2012. You don't **** with the window. When she opens you do what she demands, when she demands.

Not presumptous, maybe an optimist.
but let face the facts we are in the Finals after winning 16 games, for the year, that a good position to be in, and to me a Window. the question is how long do you want that window to last, more so with as most have been saying GWS and maybe GC kids coming of age. Will 1 player make a difference or will 2-3 players.
Look at this way 1 player may improve us in 2017 , while 2 -3 may improve us in 2018, its a question I am sure the club is pondering. (Using recent top mids from drafts they may even improve us in 2017.)
And an open window is not a grantee to success, but you need to open one to get success.

Too me I want a Sam Mitchell, Hodge, Pendlebury, Joel Selwood, another Sloane, Long term elite players that stay. Would also like a Danger or Ablett if they stayed for 10 years.

 

[GreyCrow]

Too me I want a Sam Mitchell, Hodge, Pendlebury, Joel Selwood, another Sloane, Long term elite players that stay. Would also like a Danger or Ablett if they stayed for 10 years.

Do you agree if any one of those named players was in our side Saturday night , or even through the year. We would be hot diggity dog favourites for a flag? Because that is what we are looking to do right now for next year.

 

[baldandbroke]

The point is you're wrong and you are pushed down the pecking order for player talent Access to academy picks isn't a magic wand it's a mechanism to jump up the draft order and take fruit off the tree.

Absolutely - but when you are talking about trading picks ... you don't factor in the movement that might happen on draft night to the equation. Surely?

Pick 29 is better than pick 30. The fact that other teams narrow the talent pool available is a sideshow.

 

[ad victoriam]

Do you agree if any one of those named players was in our side Saturday night , or even through the year. We would be hot diggity dog favourites for a flag? Because that is what we are looking to do right now for next year.

Yes and as I have said an elite player for 6 plus year. I would take
But are they there, because I don't want a very good player at the risk of missing out on potentially 2 very good to elite players. maybe 3.

I look at it this way imaging having a Sloane Crouch x 2 along with a P Cripps, either Zach Merrett, Zac Williams and Maybe a Lachie Hunter. you can add a few more names.
But then I look at 2017, Sloane with Crouch x2 plus a Milera, Knights, improved Atkins, a fit Hampton, plus a 1st rounder.
possibly a lower 1st rounder if they do a Lyons plus 14 plus for pick 12 and 30, by the way that pick 30 could be the 18th best kid from Vic SA or WA. as between GWS, GC ,SYD and Bris they could be using 12 academy picks. before pick 30.
pick 12 drops to 9th best SA, Vic or WA kid. assuming Brisbane take the best kid at number 2.
And we still have CEY and Thommo to deal with.

It a gamble both ways But the trade would have to be in our favour to even look at it. and it must be an elite game changing player,

 

[Sanders]

Yes and as I have said an elite player for 6 plus year. I would take
But are they there, because I don't want a very good player at the risk of missing out on potentially 2 very good to elite players. maybe 3.

I look at it this way imaging having a Sloane Crouch x 2 along with a P Cripps, either Zach Merrett, Zac Williams and Maybe a Lachie Hunter. you can add a few more names.
But then I look at 2017, Sloane with Crouch x2 plus a Milera, Knights, improved Atkins, a fit Hampton, plus a 1st rounder.
possibly a lower 1st rounder if they do a Lyons plus 14 plus for pick 12 and 30, by the way that pick 30 could be the 18th best kid from Vic SA or WA. as between GWS, GC ,SYD and Bris they could be using 12 academy picks. before pick 30.
pick 12 drops to 9th best SA, Vic or WA kid. assuming Brisbane take the best kid at number 2.
And we still have CEY and Thommo to deal with.

It a gamble both ways But the trade would have to be in our favour to even look at it. and it must be an elite game changing player,

I know others have pointed it out to you recently, and I know I've gotten bored beating my head against the wall trying to explaining it:

But why do you find it so hard to grasp the idea of different time frames between mature players traded in and players drafted out.

You might trade in a rockliff and get 6 years or you might try to draft someone who will be as good in 6 years

They are not interchangeable as they have massive different time windows

I don't know why you continue to ignore this?

 

[1990crow]

Isn't that Dangerfield like compo?

Danger wasn't contracted, FA and we could've gotten worse than we actually did.
Danger was worth an early first and a late first.
Rockliff is contracted. 1st and a player is probably about right.

 

[ad victoriam]

I know others have pointed it out to you recently, and I know I've gotten bored beating my head against the wall trying to explaining it:

But why do you find it so hard to grasp the idea of different time frames between mature players traded in and players drafted out.

You might trade in a rockliff and get 6 years or you might try to draft someone who will be as good in 6 years

They are not interchangeable as they have massive different time windows

I don't know why you continue to ignore this?

I have a good brick wall even have a figure of a person painted on it with strike zones, you can use that. or I do have a padded man size figure against wall if the wall too hard for you.
But to use our top pick plus this year and next year you would hope it will be for a Top game changing elite Mid, anything less will be seen as a failure in years come, and I can grantee you and others of you ilk will be the first the can the player and constantly bring up the comparison.

Don't care about different time frames but getting the best value for money any thing less is a big lost this year more so with level of this years draft.

 

[GreyCrow]

Yes and as I have said an elite player for 6 plus year. I would take
But are they there, because I don't want a very good player at the risk of missing out on potentially 2 very good to elite players. maybe 3.

I look at it this way imaging having a Sloane Crouch x 2 along with a P Cripps, either Zach Merrett, Zac Williams and Maybe a Lachie Hunter. you can add a few more names.
But then I look at 2017, Sloane with Crouch x2 plus a Milera, Knights, improved Atkins, a fit Hampton, plus a 1st rounder.
possibly a lower 1st rounder if they do a Lyons plus 14 plus for pick 12 and 30, by the way that pick 30 could be the 18th best kid from Vic SA or WA. as between GWS, GC ,SYD and Bris they could be using 12 academy picks. before pick 30.
pick 12 drops to 9th best SA, Vic or WA kid. assuming Brisbane take the best kid at number 2.
And we still have CEY and Thommo to deal with.

It a gamble both ways But the trade would have to be in our favour to even look at it. and it must be an elite game changing player,

The Crows , and Pyke has continued this , rarely play a 1st rounder all year to do what a Rockliff etc can do.

 

[Peter Doherty]

Almost always if they've been fleeced in a trade.

Never hear the winners of a deal talk like that



What effluent toss

Thanks for helping prove my point. When the suggestion of a 'fleecing' is put to guys like Noble (and many others) they then have to explain it to idiots on FiveAA who simply cannot get their heads around the complexities in trading.

It's the not so obvious wins I'm clearly talking about.

It's quite common to hear footy managers, list managers and player agents flat out exhausted explaining trade deals and why some deals are not as bad as the footy fan thinks.

 

[GreyCrow]

I have a good brick wall even have a figure of a person painted on it with strike zones, you can use that. or I do have a padded man size figure against wall if the wall too hard for you.
But to use our top pick plus this year and next year you would hope it will be for a Top game changing elite Mid, anything less will be seen as a failure in years come, and I can grantee you and others of you ilk will be the first the can the player and constantly bring up the comparison.

Don't care about different time frames but getting the best value for money any thing less is a big lost this year more so with level of this years draft.

That's all anyone has ever argued. Have you missed this point on purpose? We have said , all of us , 1st rounder for Rockliff , Hartlett or someone of that ilk. Not for some numpty playing 4 deep at GWS.

 

[RePete]

Lyons for pick 29 (which will really be about pick 34) + Durdin. Maybe we could throw in Otten/Grigg/CEY/fringePlayer to sweeten the deal. Durdin has been very disappointing as far as I have heard but is an SA lad and I would back in our development to get something out of him.

 

[Sanders]

Thanks for helping prove my point. When the suggestion of a 'fleecing' is put to guys like Noble (and many others) they then have to explain it to idiots on FiveAA who simply cannot get their heads around the complexities in trading.

It's the not so obvious wins I'm clearly talking about.

It's quite common to hear footy managers, list managers and player agents flat out exacerbated explaining trade deals and why some deals are not as bad as the footy fan thinks.

They would say that wouldn't they?

Noble and co tried to pretend we didn't visit a soapless prison show over the dangerfield trade; and sure some gullible rubes bought it

Doesn't make it true though does it?

 

[ad victoriam]

That's all anyone has ever argued. Have you missed this point on purpose? We have said , all of us , 1st rounder for Rockliff , Hartlett or someone of that ilk. Not for some numpty playing 4 deep at GWS.

I have always mention a top game changing elite midfield in most of my post on this subject. But I also have the ability to look at the draft and see what around and to be honest this year its a gamble both ways.
But that does not seem to be what most here want, Does that make it wrong.
And Harlett does not fit that build. Will he improve the team is he better than Smith or Laird because he has not shown much as a midfielder. and played his best game as a Half Back.And If Rockliff leaves this year it may be Port that will get him. As they are better place to offer the coin to Rockliff and picks to Brisbane.
In order to argue I need to look at both side of the coin and to be honest it coming up on the edge every time,

But who is the player the Crows will give up there 1st round plus for.

 

[Vhaluus]

That's all anyone has ever argued. Have you missed this point on purpose? We have said , all of us , 1st rounder for Rockliff , Hartlett or someone of that ilk. Not for some numpty playing 4 deep at GWS.

How can you even mention Rockliff and Hartlett in the same sentence. They are nowhere near the same ilk.

 

[GreyCrow]

How can you even mention Rockliff and Hartlett in the same sentence. They are nowhere near the same ilk.

Easy. Using a keyboard you start with the H.

I am comfortable using a 1st rounder on either.

 

[Vhaluus]

Easy. Using a keyboard you start with the H.

I am comfortable using a 1st rounder on either.

Are you also happy losing Lyons for a second rounder? Because Lyons is a better, younger footballer than HH

 

[Golumless]

So is this pick 29 before or after all the acadamy and father son picks because this 29 could very quickly become 35.

Still pick 29 of all the open for selection players.

It's only a cosmetic change with academy players.

 

[NTRabbit]

A great player sliding to 25. Lock it in.

"We actually had him 3rd on our list"

 

[Golumless]

Sounds like North are regretting their Greenwood call from two years ago. He was on their list for years, had a break out season and asked for a significant pay rise, they balked and he went to Collingwood. Sounds familiar eh?

For every Greenwood, there are a Wright.

 

[RePete]

I would be happy to get in Rockliff and Hartlett at the expense of this years first, third, next years second and/or Lyons/Hendo/fringe player. Hartlett is capable of BOG performances, and you could probably state is a B-grader when fit. Is the type of player I wouldn't mind to replace Lyons in our best-22. He could plug in a bit like Seedsman for us IMO. Rockliff is a A grader and perfect replacement/upgrade of Thommo.

A midfield of Crouch, Crouch, Sloane, Rockliff, Hartlett, Douglas doesn't sound to bad, with Atkins/Smith/Seeds/Knight on the wing.

 

[Truck25]

I have always mention a top game changing elite midfield in most of my post on this subject. But I also have the ability to look at the draft and see what around and to be honest this year its a gamble both ways.
But that does not seem to be what most here want, Does that make it wrong.
And Harlett does not fit that build. Will he improve the team is he better than Smith or Laird because he has not shown much as a midfielder. and played his best game as a Half Back.And If Rockliff leaves this year it may be Port that will get him. As they are better place to offer the coin to Rockliff and picks to Brisbane.
In order to argue I need to look at both side of the coin and to be honest it coming up on the edge every time,

But who is the player the Crows will give up there 1st round plus for.

Last I heard PAP's are maxed out while we still have Danger money in the bank.

 

[Bicks]

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2016/09/16/north-leads-the-hunt-for-lyons-signature/

As Lyons prepares for what could be his final game as a Crow against Sydney in Saturday’s cut-throat semi-final, he would not be drawn on his future beyond the semi-final, but was happy to talk up the city of Adelaide.

“I’m just getting on with preparing for Saturday,” he said.

“This is a year where I’ve finally been able to cement a spot and I’ve found it easier over here.

“It’s like a small country town. The fans are amazing and it’s actually a really good place to live.”

While the media will focus on stars Taylor Walker, Eddie Betts and Rory Sloane as being the keys to the Crows’ chances of advancing to a preliminary final, Lyons has a different take.

“We don’t have that bloke that stands out with 35 possessions in the midfield since Paddy Dangerfield left,” he said.

“It’s just more of a spread, but that means everyone has to play a role and when we’ve got guys doing that we become a pretty tough team to beat.”

Adelaide has only one midfielder—Matt Crouch—averaging more than 26 possessions in 2016. Lyons’ 22-disposal average ranks seventh at the club.

The hard-working midfielder said the Crows semi-final exit last season would act as a spur this week.

 

[ad victoriam]

Last I heard PAP's are maxed out while we still have Danger money in the bank.

Look at the Port trade list and delist list. Lot of potential dollars going out and not a lot coming in if they replace by Draft
And just maybe some Dangers money went to Sloane, JJ, Crouch x 2 remember Matt sign on after Danger left.
Have not heard if the Crow only use 95% of the cap last year.
Does anyone know how much of the cap we used.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

I have always mention a top game changing elite midfield in most of my post on this subject. But I also have the ability to look at the draft and see what around and to be honest this year its a gamble both ways.
But that does not seem to be what most here want, Does that make it wrong.
And Harlett does not fit that build. Will he improve the team is he better than Smith or Laird because he has not shown much as a midfielder. and played his best game as a Half Back.And If Rockliff leaves this year it may be Port that will get him. As they are better place to offer the coin to Rockliff and picks to Brisbane.
In order to argue I need to look at both side of the coin and to be honest it coming up on the edge every time,
.

that makes no sense ......if the reason they have to trade Hartlett for TPP reasons, then they in absolutely no position to grab Rockcliff ........each would cancel each other out, in fact Rockcliff is probably on more coin that Hartlett, so this move would make their TPP even worse ......as i said, the statement is illogical

 

[Truck25]

Look at the Port trade list and delist list. Lot of potential dollars going out and not a lot coming in if they replace by Draft
And just maybe some Dangers money went to Sloane, JJ, Crouch x 2 remember Matt sign on after Danger left.
Have not heard if the Crow only use 95% of the cap last year.
Does anyone know how much of the cap we used.

And one version going around is the big change is because they have got to move some on with the 2 drug cheats coming back in they don't have the cap space. They already spent big on Rider and Dixon not to mention Pollack when they out bid the Crows.