List Mgmt. 2016 general list discussion and speculation - Part 2

[Turbocat]

CONTINUED FROM PART 1:
https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/2016-general-list-discussion-and-speculation.1091010/

OP reproduced here:
------------------------------

Watching the Syd V GWS game , its amazing how much steadier that GWS look now they have balanced their list/side buy adding some mature players. Mumford Shaw, Patfull , Griffen and of course the young guys are starting to really gets some games/experience now. And still so many very handy guys not getting a game.

How has the better list GWS or GC? And if we were going target a kid at the end of the year who should we look at ?

Id say a medium defender /mid type would be handy but guess that translates to a player 186/190 or so. Not so much a defender , but Id like to get Hoskin Elliot , would add the type of excitement we have seen in adding Cockatoo. I know were linked to Buntine at one stage.

To me it would probably have to be a kid who wants to come home or on the fringes. So both of those names are unlikely. Any ideas?

 

[DanA]

I don't get the Scott dislike.

Facial expression in the box aside I quite like him. It's frustrating that the ruck position hasn't been addressed properly since Ottens retired but Scott won us a Premiership in the only year I felt we had a chance. The success he's managed in the H&A season since has exceeded my expectations and every time I've thought our weaknesses have been exposed in the finals rather than Scott's game plans being exploited.

 

[vinum coupe]

I don't get the Scott dislike.

Facial expression in the box aside I quite like him. It's frustrating that the ruck position hasn't been addressed properly since Ottens retired but Scott won us a Premiership in the only year I felt we had a chance. The success he's managed in the H&A season since has exceeded my expectations and every time I've thought our weaknesses have been exposed in the finals rather than Scott's game plans being exploited.

You know where a bit of it comes from for me?

I listened to Ayres year after year selling me candy.
Nothing was ever straight.

When it was suggested we were looking at Bomber I thought "please, please, he talks straight"
Now I feel like I'm being sold candy again.

 

[Turbocat]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...onstraints-on-salary-cap-20151021-gkf4x8.html

Sounds like Gold Coast are almost desperate to move Stanley for SC reasons.. Id offer them p120 for Stanley and p35...let see how much they really want him gone.

 

[AM]

More interested the optimism regarding our injury list than the header about any possible leadership moves.

But the Cats say their injury list is remarkably short compared to recent years, optimistic injury-prone trio Daniel Menzel, Nathan Vardy and Josh Cowan finished the year strongly.

Key forward Mitch Clark is ready for a full pre-season after the calf injury that dragged on for the second half of the season.

http://bit.ly/1PGguI2

 

[DanA]

You know where a bit of it comes from for me?

I listened to Ayres you after year selling me candy.
Nothing was ever straight.

When it was suggested we were looking at Bomber I thought "please, please, he talks straight"
Now I feel like I'm being sold candy again.

Totally understandable, it grates on me a bit too.

But we've got one the what three? Premiership coaches in the league. I'll take a mildly displeasing taste in the mouth after his 15 minute press conferences and a few cringey moments when the camera switches to him during games if he does a good job developing the players and makes good tactical decisions. Clarko punches holes in walls and swears around little kids playing local footy....we've all got flaws.

 

[Galaxy]

The capacity to kick goals is there IMO. A lot has to go right but if a few of these guys can get close to career best numbers for goals we could do well:

Hawkins 68
Clark 48
Motlop 44
Dangerfield 31
J.Selwood 30
Menzel 28
Duncan 24
Murdoch 22

Obviously it's a bit ambitious for all our players to be kicking career best numbers but it shows we have some quality players capable of kicking goals. We do probably need at least 5-6 people guys kick 20+ goals. There is also the capacity for a few guys like Gregson, Lang or Caddy to surprise, all three kicked goals in the teens and they are still improving.

I don't rate Murder that high at all but I'd almost bet my lifehe would kick more than 22 with a much better midfield who actually wins clearances... Injuries don't count though.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

If Menzel gets through the next two years and is playing often enough to be chased by other clubs, that is a very good problem to have. Menzel is so far away from that, with due respect it is quite a bizzare line of thinking to be considering it now.

I agree.

Little doubt if he stays fit the Crows will throw the kitchen sink at him next year though. In retrospect it would have been better for us if Troy stayed at Carlton as a club like that is not an attractive destination for quality players.

 

[DanA]

I don't rate Murder that high at all but I'd almost bet my lifehe would kick more than 22 with a much better midfield who actually wins clearances... Injuries don't count though.

I'm with you on that one. He's got a booming left foot and has the pace to kick goals on the run a bit like Mackie......if the consistency can improve (big if) he could be special.

My gut feeling is:
Hawkins 55-60
Clark 30-40 (if he can play 18+ games)
Motlop 30
Duncan 30
Murdoch 25
Dangerfield 25
Selwood 22
Menzel 40 (if he can play 18+ games)

I agree a lot depends on injuries. Clark and Menzel obviously have an appauling injury history so it really could be anywhere from about 20 goals between them to 80 depending on how many they play. It's a massive discrepancy that might define our season. Vardy another one that could be anything.

 

[AM]

I agree.

Little doubt if he stays fit the Crows will throw the kitchen sink at him next year though. In retrospect it would have been better for us if Troy stayed at Carlton as a club like that is not an attractive destination for quality players.

After the way we have stood shoulder-to-shoulder with him through all his hardship I just can't see him turning his back on us. Seems a class act to me.

 

[Partridge]

Much depends on whether Menzel can stay on the park. If we can get him fit and firing it makes our forward line far more unpredictable and dangerous. That effective third tall forward is something that we have missed since Menzel was up and about in 2011 and Johnson was playing a predominantly forward role.

To be honest, I think Menzel's importance is fairly peripheral. The reality is his knees will require maintenance, and now and again he's going to need games off. They'll also want to limit expectation. Whatever he can contribute will be considered enough.

Like all players these days, nothing hinges on him alone. He had a dream return match and kicked four goals, yet we were thrashed. He struggled to get a touch the following week and was subbed out, and we won easily. In all seriousness there would be at least eight players I think we need to perform before relying on him (Selwood, Hawkins, Taylor, Duncan, Dangerfield, Smith, Stanley, Guthrie for starters).

 

[Galaxy]

I'm with you on that one. He's got a booming left foot and has the pace to kick goals on the run a bit like Mackie......if the consistency can improve (big if) he could be special.

My gut feeling is:
Hawkins 55-60
Clark 30-40 (if he can play 18+ games)
Motlop 30
Duncan 30
Murdoch 25
Dangerfield 25
Selwood 22
Menzel 40 (if he can play 18+ games)

I agree a lot depends on injuries. Clark and Menzel obviously have an appauling injury history so it really could be anywhere from about 20 goals between them to 80 depending on how many they play. It's a massive discrepancy that might define our season. Vardy another one that could be anything.

I reckon Vardy/Stanley/Clark will kick 55-60 goals as a combine between the 3 in 2016 but otherwise I agree with you entirely.

 

[Turbocat]

More interested the optimism regarding our injury list than the header about any possible leadership moves.



http://bit.ly/1PGguI2

Sorry AM I'm a bit negative about these type of stories...What month is it again? Flufftober? Been hearing that optimistic drivel for years. When they train all the off season..and play all the practice games... and still butter up for all the full on training , then play and demand selection , still no bad news...... and then play 20 games in a season... finish the year as fresh as a daisy... I'll start getting glass half full.

 

[Turbocat]

I agree.

Little doubt if he stays fit the Crows will throw the kitchen sink at him next year though. In retrospect it would have been better for us if Troy stayed at Carlton as a club like that is not an attractive destination for quality players.

and a club deprived of early entry in the draft , that may be looking to get in..... yes I know long bows..

 

[Teriyakicat]

Totally understandable, it grates on me a bit too.

But we've got one the what three? Premiership coaches in the league. I'll take a mildly displeasing taste in the mouth after his 15 minute press conferences and a few cringey moments when the camera switches to him during games if he does a good job developing the players and makes good tactical decisions. Clarko punches holes in walls and swears around little kids playing local footy....we've all got flaws.

thank goodness most of us don't have the same flaws as Clarkson, hey?? The builders and handymen would be doing a roaring trade, if so, mending and patching

 

[Partridge]

thank goodness most of us don't have the same flaws as Clarkson, hey?? The builders and handymen would be doing a roaring trade, if so, mending and patching

That and building trophy cabinets.

 

[Teriyakicat]

That and building trophy cabinets.

I can't like that, P, I'm sorry...
I guess it balances out the lack of work over here at Freo, hey?

 

[Turbocat]

I know his name has been mention in this thread... but gees this not ideal for any club.
One does have to wonder about undisclosed info sometimes.... this would have to be a record and really poor for the Saints
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/st...577529424?sv=12c072543db6b3c1d37782b75e2f8cd2
I know that every club has its issues but I doubt you want it to be public on the day you have just traded him in.

One can only hope our club really put the time into discovery.

 

[Lana]

I know his name has been mention in this thread... but gees this not ideal for any club.
One does have to wonder about undisclosed info sometimes.... this would have to be a record and really poor for the Saints
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/st...577529424?sv=12c072543db6b3c1d37782b75e2f8cd2
I know that every club has its issues but I doubt you want it to be public on the day you have just traded him in.

One can only hope our club really put the time into discovery.

I wonder how long they were sitting on that story for

 

[Teriyakicat]

I know his name has been mention in this thread... but gees this not ideal for any club.
One does have to wonder about undisclosed info sometimes.... this would have to be a record and really poor for the Saints
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/st...577529424?sv=12c072543db6b3c1d37782b75e2f8cd2
I know that every club has its issues but I doubt you want it to be public on the day you have just traded him in.

One can only hope our club really put the time into discovery.

I wonder how long they were sitting on that story for

If Carlisle was a vacuum, St Kilda could return him during the 'cooling off' period. Surely there's an AFL return slip for 'damaged goods' or for 'items not as described by advertisement' or even 'false advertising'?

Very poor form indeed and something smells very very fishy, Turbo.

 

[Larry Donohue]

Teams usually hold on to there guys who have some trade value and delist them after trade week. We delisted Brown and Hunt after trade week.

Most of our coaches spent a bit of time at Brisbane. I wouldn't be surprised if they hadn't had a chat with Adcock and be giving Golby and Jordan Bourke a good look too.
They all played with Adcock who was skipper and still playing good footy. A year or two and to work with Troy Selwood, developing up and comers may be useful

 

[pussygalore]

I would be keen to see how others view and rank our players on our list. Or even just list our best 30 players in your perceived order.

1. J.Selwood
2. Danger
3. etc

 

[strauchnyy]

We are not innovate enough.

We do not take full advantage of the system like SOS or other clubs do.

Carlton today traded our 2016 R1 for effectively pick 8. WE COULD HAVE DONE THIS.

We could have then traded this for say Henderson +a R2. Or used in another capacity and ended up with T.menzel.

Fact is our recruitment staff are NOT innovative enough to maximise the value of our picks to take advantage of the academy points system. Fail.

I rate the players we brought in, good work but we have overpaid and have not performed to our full potential given the circumstances.

 

[4quarter_cat]

Bugger me, it beggars belief the way some on here complain. We just lost our first 3 picks this year, and our first next year for Dangerfield, Selwood, Smith, and Henderson. All without breaking the Salary Cap bank. Furthermore we've finally matured into a destination club that players hope to play for, something that we've envied in others for years.

To look at other good trades made by other clubs and say why didn't we do that etc. etc. is not realistic. Its about winning the trade war, not the trade battles. Wells and co. have established a reputation amongst clubs and players alike as fair negotiators. (Some would say soft) How many times have we put our foot down and blocked a move because it didn't suit us? We have no idea because that is not how our management do business. Lets just be greatful for the the absolute professionalism shown by our club and be proud of its achievements.

 

[DanA]

I would be keen to see how others view and rank our players on our list. Or even just list our best 30 players in your perceived order.

1. J.Selwood
2. Danger
3. etc

Based purely on expected 2016 performance only.

*Elite AFL players
*Excellent AFL players
*Above average AFL players
*Below average AFL players
*Not ready AFL players

1. J.Selwood
2. Dangerfield
3. Hawkins
4. Taylor
5. Duncan
6. Motlop
7. Blicavs
8. Guthrie
9. Menzel
10. Caddy
11. Enright
12. Henderson
13. Mackie
14. Thurlow
15. Murdoch
16. S.Selwood.
17. Smith
18. Clark
19. Stanley
20. Lonergan
21. Bartel
22. Kolodjashnij
23. Gregson
24. Cockatoo
25. Vardy
26. Lang
27. Bews
28. Horlin-Smith
29. Kersten
30. Smedts
31. Cowan
32. Cunico
33. Luxford
34. McCarthy
35. Bate
36. Reed
37. Lucey

I think that's everyone but might have missed someone.