Analysis 2016 List Management Discussion

[FlowersByIrene]

Gibbs wasn't in his prime in 2010.

Still he was pretty good.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

Hopefully we can keep our first pick, all I'm saying is that a Plowman type deal for Marchbank is near impossible.

I added McKay in the discussion because it is relevant! People question young high draft pick players in other teams when they aren't All Australian, yet tolerate them when they play for their team. For a second year player, Marchbank has shown a lot! Would you be happy to trade Curnow for a pick 15-25 this year?

Of course I wouldn't be happy to trade him for that. If it got to the end of his contract year next year and said he wanted out, I'd suspect we wouldn't get anything better than the 15-25 though. It's reality.

 

[Cringle]

Still he was pretty good.

Yeah.

 

[BM123]

Gibbs was a designated utility back then though.

Our midfield was among the very best in 2011 but our KPP situation was poor. Mentally we weren't all that tough as well. Jamison goes down and we rolled over for WC in a crucial 8 point game.

Waite goes down against Bulldogs and we choke. Not sure whether this was because of Ratten been unable to adjust on the fly though...

 

[Blue and Silver]

The mental toughness thing is really noticeable. It used to be that I would be afraid whenever the opposition got a whiff, because our boys had a tendency to roll over. Even when they didn't, the prospect loomed.

Under Bolton, despite the whackings I don't think we stopped trying, and **** me if I don't prefer this

 

[passmark]

Might post a rumour in this thread.

 

[HARKER]

Might post a rumour in this thread.

Permission granted

 

[Aphrodite]

Might post a rumour in this thread.

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/bluemour-discussion-thread.1085143/page-1215

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Shifting the draft talk back across to here for a moment, it seems we really need another quality inside mid.

With the talk of trading for Tomlinson and Marchbank, the best we could hope for is a swap of first rounders which downgrades ours to somewhere around # 14ish. I was pondering this in the bluemour thread but this may not get us what we want. While I like the notion of another 3 for 1 (with us throwing in a second somewhere), I don't want to miss on a quality inside mid.

My ideal is an inside beast with pace and disposal efficiency. Looking at some write-ups, these are the main options:

McLuggage - Forward/Inside Mid - 185cm, tackling, pressure, burst speed, forward ability, marking, needs to develop contested game and efficiency.

Brodie - Inside Mid - 189cm, clearances, contested possessions, can offer outside run and carry, athletic, pace, runs both ways, efficiency good not great, suspect under pressure.

Powell-Pepper - Inside Mid - 188cm, strong, athletic, hardness, clearances, contested, good crumber, excellent speed and endurance, linebreaker, disposal efficiency needs work.

Scharenberg - Inside Mid - 185cm, contested, clearances, handballs in traffic, finds space in traffic, strong tackler, strong marks, scoreboard impact, skill level by hand and foot good, athletically average, no freakish attributes, well rounded.

All are projected top 10 early. No doubt one will be available at our first pick. If we trade it, we are hoping for a slide or looking at top 20 options.

Bear in mind that we will finish no lower than 15th and aside from academy picks like Macreadie and Bowes and also Petrevski-Seton, we may have access to only 1-2 of these.

Who do you like?

 

[Weiterbot23]

Who cares about mids?

They are the last piece of the puzzle.

Get the talls set first
Forwards - McKay, Curnow, Tomlinson
Defence - Weitering, Plowman, Marchbank
Depth - Jasksch

Then add mids later, plus when we are on the verge buy a gun mid in free agency

 

[Red Bull]

GWS have their own first rounder, the Pies first rounder and the Cats first rounder. I'd go for the second best of the two.

Even forget the second rounder next year and give them our third this year at around #40. That makes the combined value of the two players #12. No way that is a bad deal for us.

It appears to be a good deal ODN and I've liked what I've seen of Marchbank , he would round out our backline beautifully .
I'm just not convinced about Tomlinson .
He looks the part , apparently has the tank and racks up the possessions in the reserves but to my eye at least , somethings missing in what I've seen of him at AFL level .
The intensity ?
Does he get enough of the footy ?
Is he damaging ?
What position could he own ?
Many questions on him for mine .
We need elite mids and your point re our projected pick 5/6 probably seeing us miss the best of these blokes is valid so the deal delivering 2 ready to go players of the right age profile and a latter first rounder for a good quality mid has real merit .
Decisions decisions ...

 

[thylacine60]

Who cares about mids?

They are the last piece of the puzzle.

Get the talls set first
Forwards - McKay, Curnow, Tomlinson
Defence - Weitering, Plowman, Marchbank
Depth - Jasksch

Then add mids later, plus when we are on the verge buy a gun mid in free agency

Just make sure you have the 6 best and biggest backmen in the game if you've got no mids - and no need for forwards at all.

 

[RAPPA]

The mental toughness thing is really noticeable. It used to be that I would be afraid whenever the opposition got a whiff, because our boys had a tendency to roll over. Even when they didn't, the prospect loomed.

Under Bolton, despite the whackings I don't think we stopped trying, and **** me if I don't prefer this

Completely agree about our renowned tendency to roll over and squander leads. Under Bolton however, I've been very impressed that we have managed to escape with tight wins. It would've been games like the one against Collingwood in particular where once they kicked a few, I honestly expected them to run over us. Credit tot he team however that they pushed through and claimed the victory.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Who cares about mids?

They are the last piece of the puzzle.

Get the talls set first
Forwards - McKay, Curnow, Tomlinson
Defence - Weitering, Plowman, Marchbank
Depth - Jasksch

Then add mids later, plus when we are on the verge buy a gun mid in free agency

You waste talls if the midfield is no good. No delivery for forwards, no support for defenders. Given there are some gun inside mids in this draft, we struggle in the middle and Cripps is carrying this team we have to think long and hard about supporting him ... something we took far too long to do for Judd.

 

[JustaBattler]

Bolton is trying to develop a team based mid rotation capability where HBF types ( Byrne/Tuohy/Docherty) and HFF ( Wright/Kerridge/Lamb) also go to center bounces on rotation.

Mids who are one dimensional probably don't fit in with team based attack/defense systems. In order to implement this midfield development program the players have to have the running engine and strength base to perform.

I suspect that ( injuries aside) players like Cuningham/Smith/Vojo are a pre-season away from having the base physical fitness and strength required to play and are in development. Whiley has had injury issues since arrival and Graham is pushing hard for inclusion.

There are no magic pill draftees who will simply slot into a starting 22 and play the type of game that Bolton is implementing - these are very rare beasts.

So trading for a developed engine and strength requirement makes a lot of sense. Hawthorn did not have the luxury of high draft picks and like other Melbourne based teams - they have put in place a serious development program at Box Hill to give younger players time to develop the same can be said of Geelong and the more established sides in WA as well as Adelaide.

So the way I see the 66 game rebuild is NOT a total focus on dumping existing players for high draft pick players- but more a balanced approach - where the emphasis is using draft picks to bring in quality which is developed ( C.Curnow/Cuningham, McKay ) and at the same time looking for developed players who can fit into a game plan and play their role immediately ( Kerridge/Wright/Plowman/Sumner ).

If SOS can manage to get eg Tomlinson/Marchbank type player(s) for picks and these players fit straight into a starting 22 - then it is a win for Carlton in two ways.

Firstly the starting team is enhanced because the ability to implement the game plan is enhanced and secondly development of younger drafted players is enhanced - because there is less pressure on them having to perform immediately.

There is time to think about replacing the inevitable retirement of players -brilliant job of re-inventing the defensive core- aided but not totally reliant on Mr Weitering's amazing ability to slot straight in.

A Tomlinson/Marchbank type accelerates team development and gets a tick - despite having to probably let go a high draft pick. Remaining draft picks can be used to invest in the right body and personality type worthy of 1-2 year development time.

Rinse and repeat every year.

 

[No1Suspect]

Shifting the draft talk back across to here for a moment, it seems we really need another quality inside mid.

With the talk of trading for Tomlinson and Marchbank, the best we could hope for is a swap of first rounders which downgrades ours to somewhere around # 14ish. I was pondering this in the bluemour thread but this may not get us what we want. While I like the notion of another 3 for 1 (with us throwing in a second somewhere), I don't want to miss on a quality inside mid.

My ideal is an inside beast with pace and disposal efficiency. Looking at some write-ups, these are the main options:

McLuggage - Forward/Inside Mid - 185cm, tackling, pressure, burst speed, forward ability, marking, needs to develop contested game and efficiency.

Brodie - Inside Mid - 189cm, clearances, contested possessions, can offer outside run and carry, athletic, pace, runs both ways, efficiency good not great, suspect under pressure.

Powell-Pepper - Inside Mid - 188cm, strong, athletic, hardness, clearances, contested, good crumber, excellent speed and endurance, linebreaker, disposal efficiency needs work.

Scharenberg - Inside Mid - 185cm, contested, clearances, handballs in traffic, finds space in traffic, strong tackler, strong marks, scoreboard impact, skill level by hand and foot good, athletically average, no freakish attributes, well rounded.

All are projected top 10 early. No doubt one will be available at our first pick. If we trade it, we are hoping for a slide or looking at top 20 options.

Bear in mind that we will finish no lower than 15th and aside from academy picks like Macreadie and Bowes and also Petrevski-Seton, we may have access to only 1-2 of these.

Who do you like?

I'd prefer we trade up and get 2 first rounders this year enabling us to get 2 really good mids this year rather than the 1 mid in the middle of the 1st round and sort the 3 for 1 trade with next years pick. effectively giving us 3 mids and 2 talls for 1 first rnd pick and an upgrade of 2nd and 3rd rounders. All players coming in are quality I don't see how we lose here?

 

[No1Suspect]

Bolton is trying to develop a team based mid rotation capability where HBF and HFF also go to center bounces. Mids who are one dimensional probably don't fit in with team based attack/defense systems. In order to implement this midfield development program the players have to have the running engine and strength base to perform.

I suspect that ( injuries aside) players like Cuningham/Smith/Vojo are a pre-season away from having the base physical fitness and strength required to play and are in development. Whiley has had injury issues since arrival and Graham is pushing hard for inclusion. There are no magic pill draftees who will simply slot into a starting 22 and play the type of game that Bolton is implementing.

So trading for a developed engine and strength requirement makes a lot of sense. Hawthorn did not have the luxury of high draft picks and like other Melbourne based teams - they have put in place a serious development program at Box Hill to give younger players time to develop the same can be said of Geelong and the more established sides in WA as well as Adelaide.

Enter Tomlinson I think he would flourish under us as a winger that pushes forward and at his height becomes a real problem, he has the engine to go with anyone at afl level as well.

 

[Weiterbot23]

You waste talls if the midfield is no good. No delivery for forwards, no support for defenders. Given there are some gun inside mids in this draft, we struggle in the middle and Cripps is carrying this team we have to think long and hard about supporting him ... something we took far too long to do for Judd.

Fair point,

I've got no idea on the strength of this draft but with a pick in the 3-7 range we can't really go wrong getting a decent insidish mid from the sounds of it.

Personally I'll prefer to lock down Marchbank who is imo going to be very very good CHB (which frees weitering) and Tomlinson who looks like a decent 2/3rd tall. Both players with 10 years of footy in them.

Murph and Gibbs have got 3 years of good footy left and another 2 decent ones after that, and we could just go hard on mids after that. Plus buying a free agent

 

[Coona Blues]

Shifting the draft talk back across to here for a moment, it seems we really need another quality inside mid.

With the talk of trading for Tomlinson and Marchbank, the best we could hope for is a swap of first rounders which downgrades ours to somewhere around # 14ish. I was pondering this in the bluemour thread but this may not get us what we want. While I like the notion of another 3 for 1 (with us throwing in a second somewhere), I don't want to miss on a quality inside mid.

My ideal is an inside beast with pace and disposal efficiency. Looking at some write-ups, these are the main options:

McLuggage - Forward/Inside Mid - 185cm, tackling, pressure, burst speed, forward ability, marking, needs to develop contested game and efficiency.

Brodie - Inside Mid - 189cm, clearances, contested possessions, can offer outside run and carry, athletic, pace, runs both ways, efficiency good not great, suspect under pressure.

Powell-Pepper - Inside Mid - 188cm, strong, athletic, hardness, clearances, contested, good crumber, excellent speed and endurance, linebreaker, disposal efficiency needs work.

Scharenberg - Inside Mid - 185cm, contested, clearances, handballs in traffic, finds space in traffic, strong tackler, strong marks, scoreboard impact, skill level by hand and foot good, athletically average, no freakish attributes, well rounded.

All are projected top 10 early. No doubt one will be available at our first pick. If we trade it, we are hoping for a slide or looking at top 20 options.

Bear in mind that we will finish no lower than 15th and aside from academy picks like Macreadie and Bowes and also Petrevski-Seton, we may have access to only 1-2 of these.

Who do you like?

Flexibility......Key Forwards......Inside help for Cripps........Outside silk and run........small forward type........midfield depth..........highly rated
developing ruck
That is what I see we need from draft, trade or free agency.

The drums are beating very loudly of a Marchbank and Tomlinson package, which would compromise our higher draft picks. Surely we can
obtain both and devise a deal to at least leave us with a late first rounder and a couple of second rounders.

Tomlinson has been amassing huge numbers playing as an inside mid in the NEAFL. Most seem to see him as a KPP, but could easily
be a mature partner in crime for Crippa. Obviously on our list, Charlie Curnow is also given a decent chance of becoming that big bodied
midfielder. Cripps back up covered, quicker than drafting an immature kid.

KPF.......McKay, Jaksch, (above mentioned) Curnow and smaller Silvagni are all legitimate hopes of providing an excellent target, along
with the limited, but more than useful Casboult who can provide a target as well as play 2nd ruck. If we were to get Marchbank, who would
be 3rd year and fairly mature, he, Plowman and Rowe could make an effective defensive tall unit, allowing Weitering who is more ready, to
go forward if Harry needs time and Charlie ends up more a mid. Remembering Tomlinson can also play here.

Outside silk......Boekhorst and Cuningham are developing, but their ceiling is unclear, and not bankable. This is where the draft is best
used. I am looking at the likelihood of downgrading to a late first. I like Jordan Gallucci and Jy Simpkin, both have pace and elite disposal.
Both were mooted as top ten, even top five picks before the season. Recent "phantoms" and "expert assessments" have them late first,
even second round now. Both can hit the scoreboard, with Simpkin who will sit out most of the year with injury is a mid/forward, probably
only behind Ainsworth in early small forward assessments.

We need a young inside "bull" to develop, I have Dylan Clarke and Joe Atley as likely prospects in that second tier of draft prospects. Both
have brothers in the system at Norf who are more outside players. Clarke fits the slightly more rounded type who could also play on a flank
at either end.

While we have a few serviceable small forwards, (Lamb, Wright, Gallucci, Sumner), another small forward with perhaps more X factor is
needed. The previously aerobically challenged Hisham Kerbatieh is stating a strong case in the Northern Blues as a possible late pick. His
form is good enough, that he may not last to the rookie draft.

Injury prone Kreuzer, somewhat similar Phillips (recurring hammy), speculative Korcheck, uninspiring Gorringe and foot out the door Wood,
make up our ruck division with pinch hitting from Levi and Sammy Rowe. We need a young gun, and should hit the draft. Goddard and Sweet
are two very highly rated young rucks who could go between late first and third round. Ideally we can snag one of them, if not there are a
few other decent young prospects on the horizon , who could be rookied.

Upgrade spot needed for Casey Byrne, and hopefully Ciaran Sheehan, some chance of JGM as well depending on development and
possible overtures from down Freo way.

We will need 8 or more spots available on the main list, which means another significant cull, and a couple of unlucky delistings.

My take on the draft early doors.

 

[Jimmae]

Shifting the draft talk back across to here for a moment, it seems we really need another quality inside mid.

With the talk of trading for Tomlinson and Marchbank, the best we could hope for is a swap of first rounders which downgrades ours to somewhere around # 14ish. I was pondering this in the bluemour thread but this may not get us what we want. While I like the notion of another 3 for 1 (with us throwing in a second somewhere), I don't want to miss on a quality inside mid.

My ideal is an inside beast with pace and disposal efficiency. Looking at some write-ups, these are the main options:

McLuggage - Forward/Inside Mid - 185cm, tackling, pressure, burst speed, forward ability, marking, needs to develop contested game and efficiency.

Brodie - Inside Mid - 189cm, clearances, contested possessions, can offer outside run and carry, athletic, pace, runs both ways, efficiency good not great, suspect under pressure.

Powell-Pepper - Inside Mid - 188cm, strong, athletic, hardness, clearances, contested, good crumber, excellent speed and endurance, linebreaker, disposal efficiency needs work.

Scharenberg - Inside Mid - 185cm, contested, clearances, handballs in traffic, finds space in traffic, strong tackler, strong marks, scoreboard impact, skill level by hand and foot good, athletically average, no freakish attributes, well rounded.

All are projected top 10 early. No doubt one will be available at our first pick. If we trade it, we are hoping for a slide or looking at top 20 options.

Bear in mind that we will finish no lower than 15th and aside from academy picks like Macreadie and Bowes and also Petrevski-Seton, we may have access to only 1-2 of these.

Who do you like?

https://www.draftguru.com.au/pick-value-calculator#Marchbank,Tomlinson,32,|7,

 

[fronkalicious]

Forget the draft guys. Expect Steele, marchbank, Tomlinson and Stewart to be in the navy blue next season.

 

[Blue and Silver]

Forget the draft guys. Expect Steele, marchbank, Tomlinson and Stewart to be in the navy blue next season.

Any insight as to how you know this?

 

[fronkalicious]

Any insight as to how you know this?

No. Check my track record with this stuff.

Carlton board approved the trading of your first and second picks at the most recent board meeting.

 

[Coona Blues]

No. Check my track record with this stuff.

Carlton board approved the trading of your first and second picks at the most recent board meeting.

Not doubting your info, but am reading that you are speculating on the players involved.

 

[Cringle]

No. Check my track record with this stuff.

Carlton board approved the trading of your first and second picks at the most recent board meeting.

Those four for pick #6 and #26?

Where the **** do I sign!